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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

First post First post First post
Author
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2016-02-14 02:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
You know CCP, if you:

- add a toggle or remove silly sound effects
- keep full functionality of toggle based tracking camera (should be trivial if the new code is better, right ?) - as it's superior in so many cases (combat especially)
- remove 'C', and
- keep current (SiSi 14-2-2016) behavior of dscan refresh that can be used to track at the same time WITHOUT ZOOM CHANGES
- add separate sliders for:
-- FoV (and remove alt+mouse as it conflicts with probe re-ranging),
-- horizontal sensitivity
-- vertical sensitivity
-- inertia level (from 0 to some "max cool" video nonsense)

Then eveyrone would pretty much be happy and this and other threads wouldn't even exist.

Why are you so f* stubborn ?

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Ronald Timerson
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#322 - 2016-02-14 03:22:48 UTC
I am really not the biggest fan of the new camera change. Personally i feel like there was nothing wrong with the old systems and if its not broken why try to "fix" it?

Please reconsider making this a perminant change and leave the settings alone. If nothing else, give us the options to keep the old settings, or use the news ones.

Thank you!
Bruce Kemp
2 PIRATES 1 CUP
Booty Blasters Inc.
#323 - 2016-02-14 04:34:53 UTC
Conjaq wrote:
I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....

* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable
* The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....

And worst of all
* I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.



This, Cry
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#324 - 2016-02-14 04:36:54 UTC
Is there really any need for
This to happen on every gate jump

When
This is what should happen

Oh and the all new delayed Dscan - Sorry but just NO

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#325 - 2016-02-14 06:14:15 UTC
For feedback, earlier on I posted a video showing how when I selected an object and activated the tracking camera and then tried to manually adjust the camera it would spin 180 deg and zoom WAY out on the ship. I don't know what may have been changed since that post though and I don't think anything was hotfixed but it is no longer exhibiting that behavior.
I undocked in the same ship and tried to recreate it and now it does give a little jerk in the camera's movement that is a little jarring but the full 180 and zoom change isn't happening
That being the case I assume it must be some sort of bug. So something is definitely a little wonky in the code but I don't think that its something that was intentionally put in.

Daemun of Khanid

Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#326 - 2016-02-14 09:45:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeven HouseBenyo
It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.

This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.

The reason CCP Turtlepower and that team are responding in what appears to be a tonedeaf way over this new camera, wanting tweak suggestions and (so far mind you, things might change) refusing to backtrack on the death of the old camera in a month or so is the same reason the old icon choices are still not choices in a custom method. The call's been made further up his foodchain, kill that old camera, any customers that leave are nothing more than dead weight anyways and Eve can afford to lose them. After all, newbies are swarming to Eve, and staying for a year or two at a time, what does CCP need with bitter vets? (or not quite vets?)

I'm not holding my breath I'll get access to the old camera in a month or so.

I'm not holding my breath on finding that well-hidden set of custom icons for my overview.

I'm not expecting to finish my reading of all the Regions flavor text that was in their description tab.

And I'm not expecting to throw more money into the CCP slush fund since this new camera asks me to 'evolve or HTFU' out of my vertigo issue. Sorry, looks like I'll (likely) have to GTFO.

At least I'm not paid too far in advance on my three still active accounts, right? My wound isn't too deep. Feeling kind of bad for those that have a year or more of time paid for, and will have to figure their own way around the sea sickness to use the product they paid to access..

*-*-*

Or CCP could shock me. They could do as their paying customers are asking. The old camera could stay. A backtrack might just happen. They could follow through on promises months and up to 2 years ago made. (can only speak for the time I've been here)

My odds, alas, are probably better at winning a Cash 5 drawing...

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.

ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
#327 - 2016-02-14 10:28:52 UTC
DJB16 wrote:
DJB16 wrote:
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello everyone!

• Atmospheric noises in Tactical and First Person cameras are too loud
We are tweaking these today.

Fly safe
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters



dont just tweek the damn thing

GIVE US THE OPTION TO TURN THEM OFF TOTALY



ill say is again dont just tweek the NOISE give us the ability to REMOVE THE NOISE without muting EVERYTHING

Totall off topic. But if this is the static sounds when hovering over a signature then; YES, add it as a sound option with volume slider! (or just a toggle checkbox if it was just me).
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#328 - 2016-02-14 11:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Well I posted this in what I thought was the official thread, but I guess I was mistaken. Here it is again.

Every time I see something about the camera in patch notes I try it for a while, but every time so far it has given me a headache after about 10 minutes. The laggy feeling when rotating or zooming the camera seems to be the biggest issue. Even after turning off dynamic field of view and setting the camera speed to max it still feels uncomfortable to rotate or zoom the camera. Almost like setting the camera speed to max still doesn't completely get rid of the inertia effect and it remains just strong enough to be noticeable. I think it's because the camera takes time to reach full speed now, whereas before it would instantly start moving and just have a little drift at the end.

So here's the list of issues I've noticed, starting with orbit mode:
  • 1. Even at max camera speed, panning and zooming the camera still have too much of that inertia feeling. Perhaps a 16x or 32x camera speed setting would be responsive enough, but having the option to completely remove the inertia effect would be ideal. I think it's because the old camera didn't have any acceleration at the start of the movement, and the drift at the end was slower. The new camera feels sluggish because it takes a while to get up to speed, and it feels uncontrolled because the drift at the end is too fast. The inertia effect on the zoom is just all around bad. Since zooming is a more granular operation than panning it gives a distinct sense of being out of control.
  • 2. Adjusting the camera vertically is far too slow. The same amount of input should result in the same change in angle both horizontally and vertically.
  • 3. When tracking an object in orbit mode the ship moves off to the side. That's very bad because that almost always means my ship is behind a window and I can't see what's hitting me. How about letting us chose the position of the tracked item and leave our ship where it belongs?
  • 3a. When starting to track something, the ship can snap to its new position so quickly that it's hard to keep any sense of direction, especially since the camera is rotating at the same time.
  • 3b. When looking at a large object like a station and tracking something, the camera glitches out horribly. Effects range from looking in a random direction when tracking a distant object, to the camera spinning uncontrollably or repeatedly zooming in and snapping back out when tracking a closer object. This behavior is because of moving the "Look At" object to the side when tracking is activated.
  • 4. As everyone else has said, having to manually track each new object is really awkward compared to toggling a mode and having it track whatever is selected.
  • 5. Why is there a Look At option as well as a Track option on the right click menu for distant objects? Both options seem to do the exact same thing.

  • More issues with tactical mode:
  • 6. The zoom in and out when toggling tactical view feels really uncontrolled and laggy. Please stop with this bouncy, drifty stuff!
  • 6a. It also seems to assume that the camera is zoomed in closer in orbit view than in tactical view, so if you're zoomed out farther the camera seems to zoom the wrong way for a moment then quickly snap to the right distance.
  • 7. Tactical view doesn't save your zoom distance, unlike orbit view. So every time activating tactical view it goes to the default zoom level.
  • 8. When tracking an object in tactical view the camera rotates around the camera position, not the rotation point when controlled manually. That moves the focal point, and if done while warping results in some crazy zooming out and back in as it tries to stay with your ship.
  • 9. Tracking an object in tactical view while not warping causes the camera to stop following whatever it was looking at (like your ship). It would be much more intuitive if the camera would continue to move with whatever it's looking at while pointing in the direction of the object it's tracking.
  • 10. Free moving the camera is awkward since it can only be moved perpendicular to the direction of view. There needs to be some way to move the focal point along the axis toward or away from the camera position. Perhaps alt+zoom like for field of view in orbit mode?
  • 11. It's very hard to tell where the camera's focal point is after zooming. Some kind of visual indicator of where exactly you're looking could be very helpful. Adding the option to move the focal point towards or away from the camera would help overcome this issue though.

  • And first person mode:
  • 12. First person mode seems to have a very strange field of view. I can't tell if it's too narrow or too wide, but there's some weird fisheye effects going on and it's hard to judge distance.
  • 13. The tactical overlay in first person mode is useless since the plane cuts right through the middle of the camera. Perhaps offsetting the shaded plane and distances to a bit below the ship could help, but that would be a little odd coming from third person views. In any case, the overlay is useless without some perspective to judge distances.


  • Despite all these issues, I see a vast improvement in the last couple months, so keep up the good work!
    Bumblefck
    Kerensky Initiatives
    #329 - 2016-02-14 12:53:56 UTC
    I can't remember if I've posted here or not (or that this has been addressed - I'm sure it has, though), but the new camera options cause bad motion sickness in me and other players, too.

    Deselecting all of the new camera options and bringing the system basically to where it was before helps a lot, but it would be criminal to remove the option to go back to the old style altogether.

    As an experiment, I turned on the new camera options again last night (they had been turned off since the new release) - after just a few minutes, I had a pounding headache and felt really nauseated, but I persisted, thinking I could power through it. I was wrong. A few more minutes later, I retched and vomited, and my headache was so bad I just had to log off and go to bed. I did not feel good at all, to be honest.

    To CCP: by all means, please leave the new camera options there if people like them - but, for the love of God, please don't take away the option for the 'classic' camera. Thanks!

    Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

    Bumble's Space Log

    Josef Djugashvilis
    #330 - 2016-02-14 13:14:05 UTC
    Bumblefck wrote:
    I can't remember if I've posted here or not (or that this has been addressed - I'm sure it has, though), but the new camera options cause bad motion sickness in me and other players, too.

    Deselecting all of the new camera options and bringing the system basically to where it was before helps a lot, but it would be criminal to remove the option to go back to the old style altogether.

    As an experiment, I turned on the new camera options again last night (they had been turned off since the new release) - after just a few minutes, I had a pounding headache and felt really nauseated, but I persisted, thinking I could power through it. I was wrong. A few more minutes later, I retched and vomited, and my headache was so bad I just had to log off and go to bed. I did not feel good at all, to be honest.

    To CCP: by all means, please leave the new camera options there if people like them - but, for the love of God, please don't take away the option for the 'classic' camera. Thanks!


    CCP will probably argue that it is not possible to keep the old camera option, and anyway, they will say, it is obvious from the overwhelming positive responses on the forum that the new camera is welcomed by all.

    All CCP have to do now, is to work out how to monetize the new camera...purely in the interest of the new players of course.

    This is not a signature.

    Joffy Aulx-Gao
    Stay Frosty.
    A Band Apart.
    #331 - 2016-02-14 13:49:07 UTC
    CCP Turtlepower wrote:
    Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.

    First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We can’t answer everyone‘s questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.

    To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.

    Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results begin populating instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the ‘Scan’ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.

    Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend,
    CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters

    Hello CCP Turtlepower

    As a disabled player who is a lowsec pirate, the d-scan changes will negatively impact me if they remain as stated above. I am unable to use a keyboard except for an onscreen one, and this makes me unable to hold a keybind down while clicking in space. Whilst I realise that the changes may be beneficial, I would request that the current method of camera tracking d-scan remain available as an option, perhaps as a toggle option.

    I'm a lowsec pirate and diplo of A Band Apart.

    Rixx Javix
    Stay Frosty.
    A Band Apart.
    #332 - 2016-02-14 14:00:27 UTC
    The new camera options are gorgeous and with a little work they can be incredible. For certain applications. However, it cannot be ignored that they are relatively useless for typical day-to-day play in most situations. Without further development and an effective snap-to feature that actually works and doesn't require additional key-strokes - the current "new" camera system is more harmful than helpful for day-to-day play.

    It seems that this challenge could be easily rectified by including ALL cameras as optional. If that is impossible, then the new system remains a BETA that is in serious need of further development.

    While there is no doubt the new system allows for amazing views and potential dramatic video, it is challenging to use effectively in normal combat situations.

    http://eveoganda.blogspot.com

    ArmyOfMe
    Teddybears.
    Dead Terrorists
    #333 - 2016-02-14 14:20:23 UTC
    CCP Turtlepower wrote:


    • I am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to.
    This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!


    Please bring back this feature. Its one of the things i used the most in eve.

    GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

    Daniel Westelius
    Shadow State
    Goonswarm Federation
    #334 - 2016-02-14 16:10:09 UTC
    Has CCP addressed the known issues with the new camera of:
    1) When you jump to a cyno or through a jump bridge the camera freezes and nothing loads on grid
    2) Each time you jump (in any fashion) your tactical overlay gets turned off

    If you are going to make this new camera mandatory please fix these 2 issues because it is unplayable. I had to revert to the old camera because of it.
    DaReaper
    Net 7
    Cannon.Fodder
    #335 - 2016-02-14 17:20:55 UTC
    Daniel Westelius wrote:
    Has CCP addressed the known issues with the new camera of:
    1) When you jump to a cyno or through a jump bridge the camera freezes and nothing loads on grid
    2) Each time you jump (in any fashion) your tactical overlay gets turned off

    If you are going to make this new camera mandatory please fix these 2 issues because it is unplayable. I had to revert to the old camera because of it.



    i have not seen this issue. so maybe they fixed it

    OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

    Eve For life.

    DaReaper
    Net 7
    Cannon.Fodder
    #336 - 2016-02-14 17:23:46 UTC
    As an aside:

    to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.

    Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh

    OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

    Eve For life.

    Josef Djugashvilis
    #337 - 2016-02-14 19:02:12 UTC
    DaReaper wrote:
    As an aside:

    to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.

    Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh


    Golly! be careful not to hurt yourself when you fall off your high horse. Smile

    This is not a signature.

    Kazi Kugisa
    Roving Guns Inc.
    Pandemic Legion
    #338 - 2016-02-14 19:23:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazi Kugisa
    OK, I tried the new v on SISI, what is that supposed to do? It doesn't repoint the camera in my testing. I still have to hit c first before hitting v. We already have a button to do dscan. I don't need a button to open it up. I have it open all the time. Was v supposed to repoint the camera to what was clicked and then DSCAN? That is not what I am getting. My camera still doesn't move unless I hit C.

    If this is as intended, the interface is still clunky and unusable for high level DSCAN scouting because it is still two button presses and not one.
    Soltys
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #339 - 2016-02-14 19:26:35 UTC
    Quote:
    The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well.


    People have been explaining the issues for one fourth of a year in so many ways it's somewhere between amusing and sad at this point.

    Quote:
    OK, I tried the new v on SIS, what is that supposed to do? It doesn't repoint the camera in my testing. I still have to hit c first before hitting v. We already have a button to do dscan. I don't need a button to open it up. I have it open all the time. Was v supposed to repoint the camera to what was clicked and then DSCAN? That is not what I am getting. My camera still doesn't move unless I hit C.


    Keep 'v' pressed down and then select stuff in overview / space. No need to touch 'c'.

    It's significantly better than 'c', but still requires one key to be pressed all the time (not mentioning wicked zoom outs when choosing different bodies).

    Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

    Alea
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #340 - 2016-02-14 19:27:04 UTC
    Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
    It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.

    This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.

    >Jeven


    For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down.

    I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.

    Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.