Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yeah, most things that are explicitly non hostile acts don't have consequences for them.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that the direction your engines are pointed doesn't have consequences in any part of the game.

Explicitly non hostile acts 'under the current mechanics which we're discussing whether or not work as intended and might need improvement"

Jesus, we had this argument yesterday, you lost.

Nothing baltec listed applies to getting out of bump with any degree of certainty (warping to a fast frigate is the closest thing to a legal way out, however it is anything but reliable, certainly not as reliable as bumping is). Do you even read what I post or are your replies just a knee-jerk reaction?

Anything that can be used to avoid bumping can be fairly easily countered - webber is countered by a cruiser suicide tackling the freighter while first bump lands. From there, it's usually gg for the freighter.

Best part of it all is - ganking would still be 100% viable without bumping, however it would require more skill and coordination (then current fleet warping), would likely reduce ability of individuals with 10+ accounts to perform ganks and force all members of a ganking fleet to actually be logged into game and attentive. I know, all the things that you're fighting against.
Logon for a ping, take fleet warps, hit F1, that's the skillful gameplay you want to protect.

And this was one of your many fallacious arguments in attempting to strawman one of my points as something it wasn't.

We get it, as someone that flies with gankers and seems incapable of taking part in PvP outside of highsec you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo and trying to drown out discussion by shouting 'THIS IS HOW IT IS SO THIS IS HOW IT ALWAYS MUST BE!'

Unlike you, I have no vested interest in bumping either way; I don't fly haulers, I don't gank haulers, I generally don't even notice gankers in my game on a day to day basis since I'm not often flying through or near niarja/uedama/etc. However it is *still* my opinion that it's a flawed mechanic, and if you recall, you conceded that point yesterday because you tried to suggest that it was working as intended and yet also conceded that CCP had investigated trying to fix it.

And yet today, you seem to have woken up and imagined our whole discourse last night as some kind of forum nightmare that vanished in your pillow and are back to your same, old, tired points which have already been dealt with.

Essentially, what you are saying is that if the gankers "team" put more effort in it than the gankee's team, then they have better odds of winning. I'm pretty sure that's EVE working as intended.

I never really liked how bumping works but every single "solution" the the "problem" ever proposed usually involve a **** load of problems down the line so I just decided to accept how it is.

You cut two words out of a sentence then claimed that I "admitted" that bumping isn't working as intended.

You know full well what I meant, you dishonest shill, and you've been lying about it the whole time since. Like you said before though, it's all there in black and white, although that does you no good at all, since it exposes you as wholly dishonest.

Bumping has been discussed to hell and back then back again to hell and back. The poor dead horse had a monument erected for it but we also beat that into the groud. The only reason we still remember where that poor horse "is" is because we keep coming back even tho there is nothing left there and even the "replacement" is now long gone. May God have mercy for the soul of that poor horse.

Bumping discussion always end up with nothing because every solution ends worse than what we have currently working.

idd.

I haven't seen a good solution put forwards either. What I've been arguing against though is the simple minded idea of saying:

'It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing therefore all solutions are wrong'

Instead of admitting:

'it is broken and needs fixing but this solution isn't the right one'

One thought process enables a discussion to get off the ground and perhaps some form of progress, the other is fingers in the ears and screaming to maintain the current status quo because of fear of a change being disfavourable to the parties involved.

I just read through all 8 pages of this thread, and this didn't happen.

He said that the original intent did not have this in mind but that CCP investigated and found that this was acceptable "Emergent Gameplay" which is not the same as what you have said in this quote.

Still though, to be constructive:

I don't see how this is a problem here. There are tools to avoid this. An open PVP game always has solutions.

I get that no one likes endless bumping. I'm almost certain that even the gank parties doing the bumping aren't terribly fond of having to do it.

Perhaps there are concessions that can be made but the only suggestions I see in this thread are to

1. Remove collision detection for High Sec or Haulers which gives no concessions as it would make high sec gate camping virtually impossible (which is not a good thing) or
2. Give flags for bumping which has such staggering cascading consequences across the entire game as everyone involved with the bump would have to be flagged as intent can't be programmatically determined.

I'm all for modules that make it more difficult to bump at the cost of something else.

Possible bad idea incoming:

Stabilizing Jets. Your ship cannot be moved unless bumped by a combined mass greater than a percentage of your ships mass (increasing percentage for meta or tech II variants?), but in exchange it increases your align time by 20% (Or Decreases cargo capacity by 10% two possible modules? )

This way if you're caught by the entire gank fleet, you're still not going anywhere but if one guy catches you, he's about to be brick walled?

Which is absolutely the truth. Not only that, even if it were broken, CCP can't do anything about it anyway.

You're sitting here expecting us to entertain your dishonest premise as though it were true. I will not. Ganking and bumping are not broken, period. There is no "discussion" to be had based on a lie.