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Data Site Improvements

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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#221 - 2015-12-01 08:25:55 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
To the experts who have followed, what is the effective change for relic and data sites value-wise?

From my relic expedition yesterday I recognize that data sites are still ignored by explorers and polluting systems ...

It depends from where CCP want cosmos items. Most of them have fitting options as the only advantage (compare 1600mm T2 with cosmos). Most ships with decent skills don't have so tight CPU and PG. I presume there are thousands of BPCs from caches waiting to be used. From my perspective cosmos items are useless, if I need to choose I would use deadspace over them (both fitting and performance). Market will decide. Oversaturation at start, 3-5 months to stabilize, tears in the middle. Generally I'm positive, I'm doing them anyway.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Damaris Velazquez
Melusine Temple
#222 - 2015-12-01 08:47:59 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
[quote=Yadaryon Vondawn][quote=CCP RedDawn] [...]


CCP RedDawn, could you be so kind and put ghost sites NPCs in overview settings, because they are neither in entity nor in NPC types. It's terrible because due to mini game board it's impossible to see when they appear.
Fermin Mascagranzas
Contubernium
Fraternity.
#223 - 2015-12-04 09:25:13 UTC
Loreen Parker wrote:
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.

So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?

Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?




I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#224 - 2015-12-05 05:24:56 UTC
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:
Loreen Parker wrote:
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.

So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?

Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?




I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them.


Indeed. Plus some explorers were never looking for them to begin with!

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Holly Downs
Rainy Day Industries
#225 - 2015-12-05 10:32:34 UTC
Are the covert site changes (requirement to use probes to locate them via cosmic sigs) on Tranquility now? I did over 100 Null jumps with no covert sites... Will we get an update when the changes go live?
Loreen Parker
Doomheim
#226 - 2015-12-05 14:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Loreen Parker
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:
Loreen Parker wrote:
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.

So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?

Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?




I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them.


Indeed. Plus some explorers were never looking for them to begin with!


Hey Chance, i like your videos!

i am mostly doing relic /data sites in null. i never did any ghost sites until a few weeks ago.
now i hunt them in highly specialized ship. so "ages" means in my case ~ 30-60 minutesPirate.
After the patch this is no longer possible. If they spread out like right now i expect to find one every other day while just doing relic sites againWhat?

edit:
oh and what im doing may well look like some noob just warped to the site for lols. but that noob may have just warped away 1/2 bil in loot ritcher.
Terminalia Wisperrant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2015-12-05 15:17:22 UTC
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.
Elnia Arthie
Signature Unknown
#228 - 2015-12-05 18:49:33 UTC
Holly Downs wrote:
Are the covert site changes (requirement to use probes to locate them via cosmic sigs) on Tranquility now? I did over 100 Null jumps with no covert sites... Will we get an update when the changes go live?

According to the patch notes this change will be deployed Dec. 8th.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#229 - 2015-12-06 03:32:08 UTC
Loreen Parker wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:
Loreen Parker wrote:
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.

So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?

Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?




I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them.


Indeed. Plus some explorers were never looking for them to begin with!


Hey Chance, i like your videos!

i am mostly doing relic /data sites in null. i never did any ghost sites until a few weeks ago.
now i hunt them in highly specialized ship. so "ages" means in my case ~ 30-60 minutesPirate.
After the patch this is no longer possible. If they spread out like right now i expect to find one every other day while just doing relic sites againWhat?

edit:
oh and what im doing may well look like some noob just warped to the site for lols. but that noob may have just warped away 1/2 bil in loot ritcher.


Hey thanks! Specialized Ghost site hunting is definitely a niche, but due to the way they spawn/despawn it's hilariously easy for people who don't know what they are both to get killed and to waste them for players like you, who are prepared for the challenge. Being so easily warpable doesn't really make much sense either, what with the "covert" part of it all haha

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2015-12-06 08:25:24 UTC
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.

This, so much. But I guess some code has to be written or changed for that ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2015-12-06 14:25:28 UTC
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.

It is an indirect form of PVP, also if you have to hack all the containers it will only be a matter of time before there is more bitching about crap loot or nothing in a container which they had to spend time hacking. So they will either want fewer cans per site or better loot per can. Both of which will cause the value of the loot to drop even further.
So no don't make all cans unscannable, keep them as is, if you want your loot to be worth anything.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2015-12-06 19:12:14 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.

It is an indirect form of PVP, also if you have to hack all the containers it will only be a matter of time before there is more bitching about crap loot or nothing in a container which they had to spend time hacking. So they will either want fewer cans per site or better loot per can. Both of which will cause the value of the loot to drop even further.
So no don't make all cans unscannable, keep them as is, if you want your loot to be worth anything.

Actually making cans unscannable increases the value of the (good) loot. Blink Because people who cherry pick now, will need more time and maybe get annoyed running the sites ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#233 - 2015-12-06 20:35:04 UTC
We'll have to wait and see, if those changes to data sites really increase the value of them and persuade more explorers to actually run them. But i very much doubt that.

As i see it, it doesn't help, to add items with low drop rates and little higher value. The items, that commonly drop in data sites, should have a general higher value. The value of Data Cores and Decryptors is determined by supply and demand, so there is not much one can do here. Increasing the amount of them, would only lower the price, so that would be pointless.

But what about the "high-tech" stuff? CCP added them to the loot-table to increase the value of data sites, but never gave them a purpose, so they are actually worth nothing. Something obviously went wrong here.
This would be the best opportunity to put data sites on par with relics. Give "high-tech" items a use in industry as required materials in blueprints. Just make sure, the demand for them is so high, that it will increase their value enough, to make explorers go out to run those data sites. (Or just remove them from the game already, as they are pointless now)


Regards,
Damjan

Quote:
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.

+1 for this

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#234 - 2015-12-07 16:09:04 UTC
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.


No. When you are running relic/data sites in null, WH, and losec; you want to get in and out as fast as you can before someone comes in to ruin your day. If you have to hack every can, then the chances of you getting caught just went up significantly.

Site should despawn after a set amount of time once someone warps into it.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2015-12-07 20:52:28 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.


No. When you are running relic/data sites in null, WH, and losec; you want to get in and out as fast as you can before someone comes in to ruin your day. If you have to hack every can, then the chances of you getting caught just went up significantly.

Which is a welcome change, more dead explorers, more fun, better loot prices. Twisted

BTW, unfinished sites despawn, but it takes about an hour iirc.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#236 - 2015-12-07 22:12:43 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.

Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.


No. When you are running relic/data sites in null, WH, and losec; you want to get in and out as fast as you can before someone comes in to ruin your day. If you have to hack every can, then the chances of you getting caught just went up significantly.

Which is a welcome change, more dead explorers, more fun, better loot prices. Twisted

BTW, unfinished sites despawn, but it takes about an hour iirc.


Nah, people already like to cloak up in those sites and wait for targets in null/WH/lowsec; you're just gimping them more by making them do have to hack every can.

Make the depawn time shorter.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#237 - 2015-12-08 10:56:18 UTC
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.

It won't solve the problem, ppl will hack only ruins. Cans have names on them, we can tell which one may have best loot. I don't like cans scanning but problem is wider.
Tipa Riot wrote:
BTW, unfinished sites despawn, but it takes about an hour iirc.

Good. Assuming one site despawn after 1 hour, there will be ~23 sites per day (23 possible loot tables from it). Now imagine site despawn right after you leave it. Rotation will incease. How many more sites there will be to scan and hack? 4-6 time more? Now inject 4-6 more loot from them to the market.
As Omnathious Deninard wrote
Quote:
It is an indirect form of PVP

I think primary thing should be to make data and relic analyzers different now.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2015-12-08 21:37:06 UTC
I see, both points are valid, having more sites completed and people just leaving remains and down untouched ... not that easy to guess what will be the effect on loot value.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#239 - 2015-12-09 15:49:25 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
... * High Tech items are on my list to make useful
... * I'm making a plan to look into the use of the most commonly dropped loot
... * The Reverse Engineering supply and demand is something I will add to my personal backlog...

I've went around as an explorer a while.

Usually I take all items from boxes. Also the fully useless stuff (trade goods). But I cannot see, which items are plain trade goods and which ones could be used to build anything from.
It would be great to see a BP-list, what items could be used for instead of only reprocessed minerals in industry tab.

I have to visit faction data sites in wh again. Maybe there's anything happen to rise their value not only though spawns of much more less valuable items. Those items block my trading slots only.
Data sites in wh needed a much higher quality not quantity only.

Hardening containers in sites against cargo scanners would force explorers to open them all and triggers a site respawn elsewhere.There's no need for providing advantages to cherry pickers. Else those scanners should work accurate within a much closer range only.
Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#240 - 2015-12-09 16:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Madeleine Lemmont
CCP RedDawn wrote:
... Regarding the variance between hacking data sites vs relic sites, hacking game iterations is something i've been pushing for for a while.
Right now they are too similar in my opinion and I would love to see some more separation.
However that will have to be looked into at another time.

In my opinion you may change the "look" first and the "feel" later.
Different background pictures for analyzing for instance.
Later:
Hacking needs electronic traps, archeology needs physical/mechanical ones (tripwire, explosives with countdown to un-arm, when uncovered, trapdoors back to lower layer, etc.) The principles of the minigame, the game mechanics could stay the same. Moreover archeologists need hat and lash to wear via NES. P
Hacking needs virus-strength, archeology needs "intuition & sensitivity"
Hacking is more like studies, archeology is more like surgery

Archeology should be not the same, technology driven item collection like hacking. You need to remove debris and waste step by step carefully. Else you will have damaged or destroyed artifacts.
Maybe multi-level-analyzing of smaller fields with relic analyzer could be an answer. (Tier numer = layer number, but all layer with field complexity of debris, with special traps at higher tiers)
Else hacking needs much more CPU than power and archeology more energy/power instead.
Modules should run once while starting the minigame comparable to cloaking devices. Keep running until autostop after touching the content.

[EDIT]Archeology could provide access to items, which could be explored in science centers further (like reverse engineering). You'll find a bonus item to combine with T1 standard items in order to become a named one BPC.[/EDIT]
---
Tier-5/Tier-10-Stuff (hacking player anchored inactive structures with data analyzer)
- multi-level-hacking - like a dungeon game
- starting hacking will generate a suspect flag.
- find a key to switch the layer and then find the gate for the key
- same thing up to 5 times
- successful hacking will provide access to the content within (i.e. an MTU) OR access to the anchoring menu (maybe a choice while hacking layers)
- in order to take over ownership of structures you should need some more than hacking only
- player might be able to harden their still hard to hack structures against hacking additionally (maybe using "hacking" minigame to harden it)
- containers are easier as small structures
- the new structures won't be hackable until they are abandoned

- all other ways to remove structures from space stay untouched of course. ;)