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So what, it's a very healthy niche product which by definition means most people won't like it but the ones that do stick around for a long time. Apart from that: 25% retention is hilariously high, have you seen the number dropoff 3 months after any new MMO launch?


According to your logic all programs on TV should be X-factor clones because that's what a lot of people watch. There's already 38 of them but fck it, lets make another one! What if some show isn't at all like that and it proudly stands there having a completely different target audience. Not as huge as the x-clones but it's there, they're quite loyal and... there's no competition so they're doing just fine.

What would you think of someone who wants to watch X-factor clones, then tries that programme for a few months and suddenly demands that it gets changed to yet another x-clone with the reasoning "that's what a lot of people watch dontyouknow". How much of a moron would you think that person is?

As I stated the retention rate was from players that started in 2005, an early cohort. While I could speculate what it is today, I would not have any data to support my claims, so I'll abstain.

Apart from that you still have not answered my genuine questions: what game do you pay $45 for in which you basically cannot do much? What we are talking about here is really the difference between these two scenarios: Let them pay $45 in advance and put them in a ship that allows them to compete at a small level (that is, FW or in null fleets in a small support role). The alternative is, let them pay $45 over three months to achieve the same point in game, but by that point you have lost at least 80 percent of people (again that's for the early 2005 cohort; the source is Feng, Brandt, and Saha, 2007, "A long-term study of a popular MMORPG").

Moreover, to give people unallocated skill points would be an opportunity for them to get socialized, because you have to put thought into how to allocate them, don't know how to do it by yourself, and go out to seek advice how to do it.

My second question is also unanswered, which is how is the skill training you did in your first three months in any way related to effort?

So by giving someone skillpoints you think will make them more social - Most new players are aware of the newbie aspect and avoid drawing any such attention towards that very detail. The best approach would be to create crafted templates on creating - Combat pilots - Haulers - Miners - Scanning - Droneboat pilots.

Its not the effort that's involved as your fully aware asking such an obtuse question, but the principal that was laid out by CCP very early on about time investment should never be superseded by a monetary one. You can bet everyone wished there was a fast forward button at some point in there EvE career, If its needed as an inclusion point from entry to the game how long with they still be playing when the long haul skills kick in from 20 days plus.

The persistence with which you refuse to answer my two questions (what game you pay $45 for without really being able to play the game and what your effort was to get to, say, 5 M SP) amazes me and suggests that you don't have good arguments for either of them other than "that's how it's always been done." If you do have good arguments for how these two aspects of the game are attractive propositions for new player retention, I am still genuinely interested in your answers.

I think you are absolutely correct about extra SP not helping new players learn the game or even encouraging them to stick with the game.

I have played SWTOR:
The PvE learning path and it is a path - so throw away the sandbox for this one - has some very compelling, exciting and entertaining gameplay. You stick with it because it is a large quest with a series of sub plots and ends with a gateway to team play & PVP (incursions)

It consists of a series of interrelated missions that teach you gameplay, some parts ( not compulsory) cannot be completed alone it takes team play to finish them and as you miss out on experience points this actively encourages you to communicate with other players - and these teams can be long lasting, you find yourself teaming up with the same people to do the next sub-quest.

Content gets people to stick with a game, PVP as an end game encourages people to stick around

FYI - The end game PVP in SWTOR sucked so I quit but not until I have run the PVE missions on a Toon for each character type but then its as intended - SWTOR has a decent churn rate and cash in on the PVE content

Finally, a valid argument against. But we both know that we don't know the answer, that is, whether it would attract or repel new players. The answer would be in the data and would require testing. Your guess is as good as mine.

A higher level of SP is meaningless without the knowledge to use then

Example: Your chosen allegiance is to the Order of the Knight Templar and your school is illusion - If I give you 3million skill points are you better off training them into dark defense, swordsmanship, dueling or arcane lore - Meaningless - until you have the knowledge to make an educated choice.

The SP cannot be targeted to create a focused Toon - or aligned to a chosen path - Better off giving out a remap at 7mill SP

The latest retention data are:

50% of new players never subscribe
40% subscribe and become PvErs; they rarely last longer than 2 years
10% become PvPrs and may stay like forever, usually longer than 4 years.

CCP's solution to that retention problem is to do everythign possible so PvErs become PvPrs. Considering why PvErs stay only 2 years or what could be done about that apparently never was in the plans.

So here we are, on the road to F2P as CCP treats 80% of their subscribers as more or less expendable.

I've always thought CCP's version of recruit a friend has been a bit of an arse about face way of doing things. What they could do is give the new player on subbing 1.5 or 2 mill skill points and the introducer a choice of a unique skin or ship not available to get any other way.
Griefing / ganks plays a large part in new players departing to, so many times you here that someones lost hope because they were trying to something mundane as a lvl1 mission and been popped. Yes its all ***** n giggles for the do'ers but doesn't do much for the receivers.

So you mean your fine with receiving a plex or 30 days but the new player gets nothing, that's not how recruiting works in any other game that does this sort of thing.