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What is CCP giving to The Mittani?

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Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#61 - 2015-11-04 11:05:33 UTC
Aoife Fraoch wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Anyway I would still like to know if what CCP Falcon said was the full extent of ccp's "partnership" with the mittani.
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That would be true if those businesses were not playing (in fact dominating large areas of) the game itself.

Disclaimer : Just making this point, I have no position on the accusation of RMTing etc.


Can you develop that point further?

The only advantage I can see that their presence ingame has in this case is access to a large community that might be interested in the product. I guess you could argue that having CCP's support for a commercial venture might mean something, but this project isn't being done by nor will it benefit an in-game entity as a whole. It is a project being done by a handful of individuals who happen to be Goons.

I don't actually see how there is anything happening here that is more unethical than the last EVE themed book kickstarter. The only difference I can see are the people who are driving the project.

Seriously, where was all this handwringing when the 'A History' book kicked off?


Well, the main individual happens to be the head of the largest player entity in the game so I don't think you can merely sweep him aside as just another individual, he clearly isn't. As I said I have no position on whether selling mittens corpses for $200 or in fact roams with Mittens constitutes RMT. I am just pointing out that where the finer details of CCP's relationship with Sony may be none of our business, their business relationship with such a prominent player may well be our business (even if he doesn't log in Lol)
Ultim8Evil
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#62 - 2015-11-04 11:32:14 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Licensing for the book to use the EVE Universe IP.



Does this actually cost anything?

Or is it a case of "hey CCP, I'm thinking of writing a book about your game which will be beneficial to both of us... can I?"

Follow me on Twitter for literally no good reason @TheUltim8Evil
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-11-04 11:41:31 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Aoife Fraoch wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Anyway I would still like to know if what CCP Falcon said was the full extent of ccp's "partnership" with the mittani.
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That would be true if those businesses were not playing (in fact dominating large areas of) the game itself.

Disclaimer : Just making this point, I have no position on the accusation of RMTing etc.


Can you develop that point further?

The only advantage I can see that their presence ingame has in this case is access to a large community that might be interested in the product. I guess you could argue that having CCP's support for a commercial venture might mean something, but this project isn't being done by nor will it benefit an in-game entity as a whole. It is a project being done by a handful of individuals who happen to be Goons.

I don't actually see how there is anything happening here that is more unethical than the last EVE themed book kickstarter. The only difference I can see are the people who are driving the project.

Seriously, where was all this handwringing when the 'A History' book kicked off?


Well, the main individual happens to be the head of the largest player entity in the game so I don't think you can merely sweep him aside as just another individual, he clearly isn't. As I said I have no position on whether selling mittens corpses for $200 or in fact roams with Mittens constitutes RMT. I am just pointing out that where the finer details of CCP's relationship with Sony may be none of our business, their business relationship with such a prominent player may well be our business (even if he doesn't log in Lol)



I think that corpse thing has already disappeared (as it probably should, it seems pretty close to the line, I never actually saw it on the page) otherwise I am not sure it is anything more than a potential PR problem for CCP.

The roams are an interesting one, as there are other virtual/online interactions on that list which presumably are ok.

But mittens is another individual, and one who has some kind of media interest outside of EVE. And in that context, the relationship between him and CCP should be straight forward. Aside from his notoriety there is little else from with in EVE he can leverage for this.

From CCP's perspective this is a bit of a win-win. An external party is taking on the risk of funding what is essentially a pilot for a a serious of books on he ingame history of EVE, where the worst thing that might happen is that the project self destructs messily.

This one will be interesting to watch.
Commander Spurty
#64 - 2015-11-04 11:49:19 UTC
Well killboard will be removed from existence if the story belongs to someone not willing to share.

So whatcha gonna do when they come for your killboards?

*SNORK*

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#65 - 2015-11-04 11:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Aoife Fraoch wrote:


I think that corpse thing has already disappeared (as it probably should, it seems pretty close to the line, I never actually saw it on the page) otherwise I am not sure it is anything more than a potential PR problem for CCP.

The roams are an interesting one, as there are other virtual/online interactions on that list which presumably are ok.

But mittens is another individual, and one who has some kind of media interest outside of EVE. And in that context, the relationship between him and CCP should be straight forward. Aside from his notoriety there is little else from with in EVE he can leverage for this.

From CCP's perspective this is a bit of a win-win. An external party is taking on the risk of funding what is essentially a pilot for a a serious of books on he ingame history of EVE, where the worst thing that might happen is that the project self destructs messily.

This one will be interesting to watch.


I can see not taking a position on the RMTing issue will be next to impossible (I really just wanted to point out the difference between the playerbase's "right" to know about CCP interaction with a company like Sony and a company/individual such as themittani.com/Mittens).

So I'll just say this, the corpse for $200 is a physical in game item for money and I think that's RMT and the fact it has been so quickly changed confirms it as such. The "roam with Mittens" deal is less obvious as you very nicely put it, it's an "interaction" rather than a physical item. Well my view is that if EvEisEasy selling advice on pvp for subscription fees is RMT then so is selling a roam with Mittens. Whether either of those actions are detrimental to the game is another debate (I think both have/had the potential to increase the playerbase through favorable exposure) it's just CCP have basically set a precedent with their actions towards EvEisEasy so...
kommer
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#66 - 2015-11-04 12:20:56 UTC
Please support the crapstarter project of a failed lawyer who found a new income feasting off of a once great game.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#67 - 2015-11-04 12:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Anyway I would still like to know if what CCP Falcon said was the full extent of ccp's "partnership" with the mittani.
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That would be true if those businesses were not playing (in fact dominating large areas of) the game itself.

Disclaimer : Just making this point, I have no position on the accusation of RMTing etc.
CCP have done a deal with Mittani Media, which is a business whose CEO happens to play Eve. CCP have done the same in the past, they did a deal with Sony Online Entertainment, which is a business whose CEO at the time happened to play Eve.

IIRC the CEO of Sony Online Entertainment was a Goon (Grr™) or in a closely associated corp, yet there were no demands to know the extent of the partnership between Sony and CCP, despite him being a member of a group that dominates large areas of the game, which is incidentally the same group that is causing so much hand-wringing where the current deal is concerned.

TL;DR It's none of your business.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Reiisha
#68 - 2015-11-04 12:37:08 UTC
mech res wrote:
Nafensoriel wrote:
Yeah its getting mildly disturbing that people today assume all game IP lore doesn't belong to the developer. They own the EVE world.. to do anything EVE related CCP needs to give you their nod of approval or explicitly state you can play in their proverbial sandbox of dreams.


Also Mittens Gets Kittens.
Oh come on.. admit it Kittens even make putin look soft and cuddly. Grr goons to aww kittens.



CCP can legally do what it wants with its property. That includes spawning and giving certain alliances perks like tech 2 bpos, or supporting their propaganda efforts to promote themselves or their alliances.

But that doesn't mean CCP should do those things. And I think players are within their rights to at least ask what extent ccp is doing this.


You do realize that it's been nearly 10 years and everyone involved has since moved on from either CCP or EVE entirely....

I would commend your effort for this trolling attempt, but honestly? This is just sad and dissappointing. F-. Try harder next time.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Always Shi
t Posting
#69 - 2015-11-04 12:40:41 UTC
kommer wrote:
kommer
Five-0
Likes received: 1


And so it shall remain.
kommer
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#70 - 2015-11-04 13:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: kommer
Always Shi wrote:
kommer wrote:
kommer
Five-0
Likes received: 1


And so it shall remain.



I don't think you can count, cowboy. Support the failed lawyer and his god awful, self-aggrandizing story book.
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2015-11-04 13:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Brian Harrelstein
.
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#72 - 2015-11-04 14:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: mech res
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Anyway I would still like to know if what CCP Falcon said was the full extent of ccp's "partnership" with the mittani.
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That depends what you mean. Sure CCP is not legally obligated to tell players if they are supporting certain in game groups and not others in their propaganda efforts. Like I said before, they would not be legally obligated to tell players they are spawning certain items to benefit certain alliances or their leaders. Does that mean that is none of our business as players?

It was the mittani.com that publicized how CCP is "partnering" with him, and supporting his propaganda book. So why can't I ask about the details?

And like I said if the extent of ccp's support is allowing him to use the EVE IP in the book then I am glad they did it - so long as they would do that for others. I am just wondering if that is all ccp is doing to partner with the mittani.


And before anyone says this is not propaganda and it is going to be "fair and balanced" please note if you pay money you will get a whole chapter about yourself. Money talks, and this author is going to paint mittani just how mittani wants himself painted. So yeah I am curious the extent that CCP is a "partner" in this.

Edit:

I wasn't aware of the hardline against cash that CCP took against eveiseasy. Obviously some of the items in Mittani's kickstarter are equivalent, and this would be a double standard unless CCP takes action.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#73 - 2015-11-04 15:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
kommer wrote:
Please support the crapstarter project of a failed lawyer who found a new income feasting off of a once great game.


With this amount of bitterness over a video game that the poster has no tangible stake in, I'm willing to bet that this poster has visited a real life mental health professional at least once. I would pay real life money to have a look at that professional's notes on the encounter lol.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#74 - 2015-11-04 16:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
mech res wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That depends what you mean. Sure CCP is not legally obligated to tell players if they are supporting certain in game groups and not others in their propaganda efforts. Like I said before, they would not be legally obligated to tell players they are spawning certain items to benefit certain alliances or their leaders. Does that mean that is none of our business as players?
You need to separate The Mittani as a character, and The Mittani as a business/brand. CCP aren't supporting the character, they are participating in a deal with third party businesses that stands to benefit all those involved.

CCP get advertising and the stories from within their game spread to a wider audience.
Jeff Edwards gets to write a book that covers a couple of genres including Sci-Fi and historical events, with a pool of ready made consumers.
The Mittani brand gets exposure as a media outlet and enhances its reputation.

What they're not doing is helping the CEO of one of those businesses in game.

Quote:
It was the mittani.com that publicized how CCP is "partnering" with him, and supporting his propaganda book. So why can't I ask about the details?
You can, it's still none of your business though.

Quote:
And like I said if the extent of ccp's support is allowing him to use the EVE IP in the book then I am glad they did it - so long as they would do that for others. I am just wondering if that is all ccp is doing to partner with the mittani.
If others can come up with the same kind of case to be allowed to use CCPs IP then I have no doubt that CCP will do the same. Obviously his knowledge of how stuff works at CCP has allowed him to pitch it at the right people, but I would consider that due diligence when dealing business to business.

Mittens has managed to get a renowned military thriller writer on board, they've got the funding planned, come up with a list of possible benefits, he already owns a pretty popular media outlet where it can be advertised, and he has presented it to CCP. From the sounds of it he made a pretty convincing case.


Quote:
And before anyone says this is not propaganda and it is going to be "fair and balanced" please note if you pay money you will get a whole chapter about yourself. Money talks, and this author is going to paint mittani just how mittani wants himself painted. So yeah I am curious the extent that CCP is a "partner" in this.
It's a work of science fiction (science faction?) based on actual events that happened in a virtual dystopia that is known for being a brutal dog eat dog universe, fair and balanced don't come into it. History is written by the winners, and The Fountain War is history.

As for buying your own chapter? So what? The business partnership exists to make money.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#75 - 2015-11-04 16:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Anyway I would still like to know if what CCP Falcon said was the full extent of ccp's "partnership" with the mittani.
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That would be true if those businesses were not playing (in fact dominating large areas of) the game itself.

Disclaimer : Just making this point, I have no position on the accusation of RMTing etc.

That would make it the Internal Affairs departments business, not ours.

I would suggest if you or someone else has proof that something inappropriate is occurring, speak up now.

However if all you have to offer is simply insisting you should be privy to the details of a game companies private business dealings, because you think that you are entitled to confidential information simply because you are a customer, then it's time to stop wasting everyone's time.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#76 - 2015-11-04 16:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: mech res
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That depends what you mean. Sure CCP is not legally obligated to tell players if they are supporting certain in game groups and not others in their propaganda efforts. Like I said before, they would not be legally obligated to tell players they are spawning certain items to benefit certain alliances or their leaders. Does that mean that is none of our business as players?
You need to separate The Mittani as a character, and The Mittani as a business/brand. CCP aren't supporting the character, they are participating in a deal with third party businesses that stands to benefit all those involved.


That is just silly. Just because The Mittani paid $80 to incorporate that does not mean we should treat it as separate. If it were "eveiseasy inc." do you think they would have different rules?

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

CCP get advertising and the stories from within their game spread to a wider audience.....What they're not doing is helping the CEO of one of those businesses in game.


This is true with just about any third party business such as eveiseasy or different apps that work for eve. Why is ccp bending the rules for the mittani?

And yes putting out propaganda for an eve corporation does help that corporation and their leadership. Especially when ccp will partner with them and bend the rmt rules for to help them make real money out of it.


Ranger 1 wrote:

That would make it the Internal Affairs departments business, not ours.


It is our business as players if that department is creating double standards for other players. If eveiseasy can't make real money from ingame services why can mittani do this with his roams? Again they are not legally required to tell us this information but it is a players business to know if they bend the rules of the game/eula for some but not others. Just common decency would dictate that a game company not give special privileges to certain players and not others.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-11-04 16:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CCP have done a deal with Mittani Media, which is a business whose CEO happens to play Eve. CCP have done the same in the past, they did a deal with Sony Online Entertainment, which is a business whose CEO at the time happened to play Eve.

IIRC the CEO of Sony Online Entertainment was a Goon (Grr™) or in a closely associated corp, yet there were no demands to know the extent of the partnership between Sony and CCP, despite him being a member of a group that dominates large areas of the game, which is incidentally the same group that is causing so much hand-wringing where the current deal is concerned.

TL;DR It's none of your business.


Just a point of clarification: CCP never did a deal with Sony Online Entertainment, their deal was with Sony Computer Entertainment. They're two wholly different companies with SCE being the parent company of SOE before selling it off a few months ago..
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#78 - 2015-11-04 16:58:40 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CCP have done a deal with Mittani Media, which is a business whose CEO happens to play Eve. CCP have done the same in the past, they did a deal with Sony Online Entertainment, which is a business whose CEO at the time happened to play Eve.

IIRC the CEO of Sony Online Entertainment was a Goon (Grr™) or in a closely associated corp, yet there were no demands to know the extent of the partnership between Sony and CCP, despite him being a member of a group that dominates large areas of the game, which is incidentally the same group that is causing so much hand-wringing where the current deal is concerned.

TL;DR It's none of your business.


DUST514 was not published by Sony Online Entertainment, it was published by CCP and Sony *COMPUTER* entertainment, Hope this helps. Blink
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-11-04 17:05:36 UTC
Tech moons to build stupid ridiculous space wealth.

T2 BPOs to build even more stupidly insane space wealth.

...

The question should be, what has CCP not given Mittens?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#80 - 2015-11-04 17:09:10 UTC
The amazing thing about this and the other complaints constantly filled here is that these grievances generate enough outrage on the part of the poster to warrant posting about it, trying to get people riled up and in agreement.....

...But somehow this outrageous thing is not outrageous enough to make them want to stop giving this supposedly horrible game company their money. I simply don't get it, people like this are literally saying "I don't trust you because what you are doing si underhanded, , oh and btw heres 15 bucks, enjoy!".