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What is CCP giving to The Mittani?

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#81 - 2015-11-04 17:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
mech res wrote:
That is just silly. Just because The Mittani paid $80 to incorporate that does not mean we should treat it as separate.
As far as the law and society are concerned they are separate entities, so no it's not silly at all.

Quote:
If it were "eveiseasy inc." do you think they would have different rules? ....
...This is true with just about any third party business such as eveiseasy or different apps that work for eve. Why is ccp bending the rules for the mittani?
I'm unaware of the Eveiseasy monetisation plan or what went down there, did he present it to CCP for approval, or did he just go ahead and do it?

Quote:
And yes putting out propaganda for an eve corporation does help that corporation and their leadership.
Bearing in mind that far more people enjoy reading about Eve than playing it; how is it propaganda and how does it help a specific corporation and its leadership beyond exposing them to a wider audience?

Quote:
Especially when ccp will partner with them and bend the rmt rules for to help them make real money out of it.
It's RMT when you exceed the bounds of any approval you do have as happened with Somer Blink, or you do it without CCP approval at all. The fact that CCP have approved this means that it isn't RMT.

Quote:

It is our business as players if that department is creating double standards for other players. If eveiseasy can't make real money from ingame services why can mittani do this with his roams? Again they are not legally required to tell us this information but it is a players business to know if they bend the rules of the game/eula for some but not others. Just common decency would dictate that a game company not give special privileges to certain players and not others.
If you believe the rules are being bent or that favour is being given, inform the CCP internal affairs department, that is their bailiwick.

Edit, it looks like I made an error in a previous post by confusing SOE with SCE; my bad Oops TY for the correction Hendrick Tallardar & Portmanteau

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#82 - 2015-11-04 17:15:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amazing thing about this and the other complaints constantly filled here is that these grievances generate enough outrage on the part of the poster to warrant posting about it, trying to get people riled up and in agreement.....

...But somehow this outrageous thing is not outrageous enough to make them want to stop giving this supposedly horrible game company their money. I simply don't get it, people like this are literally saying "I don't trust you because what you are doing si underhanded, , oh and btw heres 15 bucks, enjoy!".

Heh, true.
Perhaps they would feel differently if they actually had a shred of proof indicating something dishonest was occurring, although I doubt it.
Somebody nudge me if this thread ever elevates beyond wild, baseless speculation.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#83 - 2015-11-04 17:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Ranger 1 wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
mech res wrote:
Anyway I would still like to know if what CCP Falcon said was the full extent of ccp's "partnership" with the mittani.
TBH the extent of CCP's partnerships with other businesses is none of your damn business.


That would be true if those businesses were not playing (in fact dominating large areas of) the game itself.

Disclaimer : Just making this point, I have no position on the accusation of RMTing etc.

That would make it the Internal Affairs departments business, not ours.

I would suggest if you or someone else has proof that something inappropriate is occurring, speak up now.

However if all you have to offer is simply insisting you should be privy to the details of a game companies private business dealings, because you think that you are entitled to confidential information simply because you are a customer, then it's time to stop wasting everyone's time.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1318670671/fountain-war-book

Quote:
Pledge $200 or more

1 backer Limited (49 left of 50)

ROAM NEW EDEN WITH THE MITTANI

Join The Mittani in a romp across space. Warning: your safety is not guaranteed.


If Eveiseasy were not allowed to sell pvp advice then this surely constitutes a similar breach of the EULA, they've already changed the $200 pledge reward from a mittens corpse (selling an actual in game item for R/L cash).

I would say the fact that they've not once but twice broken the EULA in ways that have seen other groups penalised is enough to raise a few legitimate questions about CCP giving themittani.com privileged status. The possibility that they probably checked with CCP when they changed the corpse to a roam with mittani raises further questions about said privileged status.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2015-11-04 17:18:20 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
What's worrisome is with the monetization of eve player stories, expressing your opinion of what took place in your personal eve history will open you up to legal action.

How far is this going to go? Will lawyers be patrolling reddit, mmorpg forums demanding moderators take down AARs and commentaries of battles and strategic actions because this or that guy wrote a book that covers what you're talking about?

Will there be copyright infringement actions taking place because eve players go into detail regarding their experiences or their perception of actions that took place?

Hit with libel for contradicting the written words of authors with their own idea of what actually took place?

How far down does this rabbit hole go?


Questions for you...

Does this happen on fandom subreddits?
Does this happen on Deviant Art?
Does this happen to shippers?
Does this happen to individual fanfic writers?

No? That's what I thought.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#85 - 2015-11-04 17:20:56 UTC
The whole issue of whether this goes through a third party corporation is completely irrelevant. Again if it is "eveiseasy inc." does that mean they can get cash for their in game services?

I like the argument that if CCP approves the rmt then its not rmt. In other words yes expect that CCP will give double/triple standards because they are not going to set any standards.

The t2 bpos were given to BOB not goons. The Mittani has often decried this unfair advantage given to his enemy. Of course, BOB used their isk to conduct exciting wars that the NY Times used to do write ups about. So maybe from a PR perspective CCP supporting BOB would be justified and none of our business as players?

The moons are part of the game no problem there.

Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#86 - 2015-11-04 17:21:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amazing thing about this and the other complaints constantly filled here is that these grievances generate enough outrage on the part of the poster to warrant posting about it, trying to get people riled up and in agreement.....

...But somehow this outrageous thing is not outrageous enough to make them want to stop giving this supposedly horrible game company their money. I simply don't get it, people like this are literally saying "I don't trust you because what you are doing si underhanded, , oh and btw heres 15 bucks, enjoy!".


And if people just came in here making ragequit posts before asking questions and getting answers you'd point out they were being stupid quitting over something they had no proof was even happening. Asking questions about a game you enjoy playing before you rashly quit is a reasonable response Jenn.
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#87 - 2015-11-04 17:23:16 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
That would make it the Internal Affairs departments business, not ours.

I would suggest if you or someone else has proof that something inappropriate is occurring, speak up now.

However if all you have to offer is simply insisting you should be privy to the details of a game companies private business dealings, because you think that you are entitled to confidential information simply because you are a customer, then it's time to stop wasting everyone's time.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1318670671/fountain-war-book

Quote:
Pledge $200 or more

1 backer Limited (49 left of 50)

ROAM NEW EDEN WITH THE MITTANI

Join The Mittani in a romp across space. Warning: your safety is not guaranteed.


If Eveiseasy were not allowed to sell pvp advice then this surely constitutes a similar breach of the EULA, they've already changed the $200 pledge reward from a mittens corpse (selling an actual in game item for R/L cash).

I would say the fact that they've not once but twice broken the EULA in ways that have seen other groups penalised is enough to raise a few legitimate questions about CCP giving themittani.com privileged status. The possibility that probably checked with CCP when they changed the corpse to a roam with mittani raises further questions about said privileged status.
Have you reported it to the Internal Affairs Dept? If not, why not?

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#88 - 2015-11-04 17:24:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I'm unaware of the Eveiseasy monetisation plan or what went down there, did he present it to CCP for approval, or did he just go ahead and do it?


Does it make a difference? The CCP's reaction to EiE making money off of pvp advice set a precedent. Does asking CCP first make it ok for one group rather than another ? Does CCP allowing one group to do it and not another not give the impression of privileged status for the group they allow to do it ?
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#89 - 2015-11-04 17:27:59 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Somebody nudge me if this thread ever elevates beyond wild, baseless speculation.



Did you not see the kickstarter campaign?

I don't know that ccp should prevent people from getting real money for in game services like eveiseasy or roams with mittani. But if they prevent one person from doing it then they should apply the same rules to everyone.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#90 - 2015-11-04 17:31:12 UTC
mech res wrote:
I like the argument that if CCP approves the rmt then its not rmt.
Arguably, in a broad sense, it could be considered RMT, so I'll rephrase it just for you.

It's illegal RMT when you exceed the bounds of any approval you do have as happened with Somer Blink, or you do it without CCP approval at all. The fact that CCP have approved this means that it is legal RMT.

Legal and illegal being defined by CCP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#91 - 2015-11-04 17:33:36 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I'm unaware of the Eveiseasy monetisation plan or what went down there, did he present it to CCP for approval, or did he just go ahead and do it?


Does it make a difference? The CCP's reaction to EiE making money off of pvp advice set a precedent. Does asking CCP first make it ok for one group rather than another ? Does CCP allowing one group to do it and not another not give the impression of privileged status for the group they allow to do it ?
It makes all the difference in the world, if he didn't go to CCP then he falls foul of the rules, if he did go to CCP and then exceeded the limits of any approval he may have gotten, then he falls foul of the rules.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#92 - 2015-11-04 17:41:16 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amazing thing about this and the other complaints constantly filled here is that these grievances generate enough outrage on the part of the poster to warrant posting about it, trying to get people riled up and in agreement.....

...But somehow this outrageous thing is not outrageous enough to make them want to stop giving this supposedly horrible game company their money. I simply don't get it, people like this are literally saying "I don't trust you because what you are doing si underhanded, , oh and btw heres 15 bucks, enjoy!".


And if people just came in here making ragequit posts before asking questions and getting answers you'd point out they were being stupid quitting over something they had no proof was even happening. Asking questions about a game you enjoy playing before you rashly quit is a reasonable response Jenn.


You know that the people making the complaints never quit.

On top of that, the OP isn't asking a question, he already believes "foul play" is occurring. And he's said nothing about leaving or refusing to give CCP money. That's the point, if you don't like what a company does (notice the OPs use of the term "double standard"), your choice is 'give them more money/stop giving them money' and that's it.

Threads like these aren't some kind of public service, they are attempts at manipulation, fueled by what looks an awful lot like prejudice against a certain group (Goons) and/or outright jealousy.. The subject under discussion is no one's business except CCP and whatever Mittens wants to call his company.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#93 - 2015-11-04 17:42:23 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I'm unaware of the Eveiseasy monetisation plan or what went down there, did he present it to CCP for approval, or did he just go ahead and do it?


Does it make a difference? The CCP's reaction to EiE making money off of pvp advice set a precedent. Does asking CCP first make it ok for one group rather than another ? Does CCP allowing one group to do it and not another not give the impression of privileged status for the group they allow to do it ?
It makes all the difference in the world, if he didn't go to CCP then he falls foul of the rules, if he did go to CCP and then exceeded the limits of any approval he may have gotten, then he falls foul of the rules.


So it's ok because CCP <3 mittens but didn't <3 Garmon et al. Sorry but as players, when we see CEO's of EvE powerblocs ask if they can break the EULA and get told by CCP "sure, no problem" (if that happened, we don't know) I'd say that's even worse since CCP have knowingly bestowed privileged status upon a player/group of players.

*again, we do not know if this happened which is why we are asking*
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#94 - 2015-11-04 17:44:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amazing thing about this and the other complaints constantly filled here is that these grievances generate enough outrage on the part of the poster to warrant posting about it, trying to get people riled up and in agreement.....

...But somehow this outrageous thing is not outrageous enough to make them want to stop giving this supposedly horrible game company their money. I simply don't get it, people like this are literally saying "I don't trust you because what you are doing si underhanded, , oh and btw heres 15 bucks, enjoy!".


And if people just came in here making ragequit posts before asking questions and getting answers you'd point out they were being stupid quitting over something they had no proof was even happening. Asking questions about a game you enjoy playing before you rashly quit is a reasonable response Jenn.


You know that the people making the complaints never quit.

On top of that, the OP isn't asking a question, he already believes "foul play" is occurring. And he's said nothing about leaving or refusing to give CCP money. That's the point, if you don't like what a company does (notice the OPs use of the term "double standard"), your choice is 'give them more money/stop giving them money' and that's it.

Threads like these aren't some kind of public service, they are attempts at manipulation, fueled by what looks an awful lot like prejudice against a certain group (Goons) and/or outright jealousy.. The subject under discussion is no one's business except CCP and whatever Mittens wants to call his company.


I'll respectfully disagree and leave it at that Blink
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#95 - 2015-11-04 17:48:25 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:


So it's ok because CCP <3 mittens but didn't <3 Garmon et al.


If that's how they want to do it, then yea it's ok. Their company, their game, their rules, when they do something i don't like i'll stop paying them, if they actually harm me in some way (I don't know how, this is a video game) then i'd sue them in some Icelandic Court.

But this childish attempt at starting some kind of online witch hunt because people don't like some slightly bearded internet dude is stupid. If "EVEiseasy" has a complaint about this, they also should take it up with that Icelandic Court named in the EULA.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#96 - 2015-11-04 17:55:31 UTC
Why the obsession with legalities ? This is surely more to do with the players' perception of whether CCP favours in game players/groups and it's a perception they take seriously, hence the formation of the CSM after T2bpogate.

This "take it up with Icelandic courts" stuff is a massive strawman
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#97 - 2015-11-04 18:00:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amazing thing about this and the other complaints constantly filled here is that these grievances generate enough outrage on the part of the poster to warrant posting about it, trying to get people riled up and in agreement.....

...But somehow this outrageous thing is not outrageous enough to make them want to stop giving this supposedly horrible game company their money. I simply don't get it, people like this are literally saying "I don't trust you because what you are doing si underhanded, , oh and btw heres 15 bucks, enjoy!".


And if people just came in here making ragequit posts before asking questions and getting answers you'd point out they were being stupid quitting over something they had no proof was even happening. Asking questions about a game you enjoy playing before you rashly quit is a reasonable response Jenn.


You know that the people making the complaints never quit.

On top of that, the OP isn't asking a question, he already believes "foul play" is occurring. And he's said nothing about leaving or refusing to give CCP money. That's the point, if you don't like what a company does (notice the OPs use of the term "double standard"), your choice is 'give them more money/stop giving them money' and that's it.

Threads like these aren't some kind of public service, they are attempts at manipulation, fueled by what looks an awful lot like prejudice against a certain group (Goons) and/or outright jealousy.. The subject under discussion is no one's business except CCP and whatever Mittens wants to call his company.


I asked what ccp gave the mittani. CCP Falcon said they gave rights to the ip to use in the book. He didn't say that was all they gave. I am not sure if that is all they gave, so I am asking.

Then this issue of rmt came up and I was not aware that eveiseasy was prevented from getting real money for their in game services. I am not sure they should have been, but if they were, then it would seem the mittani should play by the same rules. Maybe allowing him to rmt these roam was also part of the deal, I don't know so that is another question.

You may like the mittani or like the idea of this book, but even you I would hope, can understand that ccp should not give him special rights to break rules they set up for other players. Rather than disparage people who ask for an explanation, maybe you can explain why what eveiseasy was doing is different than mittani taking money for roams.
Ao Kishuba
Doomheim
#98 - 2015-11-04 18:08:54 UTC
You people commenting on the Mittani's real life ought to be ashamed. You are no better than mittens, nor than the organization of self-proclaimed doxxers he supports. This is for EVE discussion, and being angry does not make you immune to the rules anymore than being space-important would.

If the issue is with RMT on kickstarter, keep it that way; otherwise, you're just supporting the CFC by diluting the topic and derailing the thread.

The issue at hand has been pretty well covered by other posts. The evidence is known, and CCP can act as they well please. We players can only wait for their decision at this point. If we don't like their reaction, we can make a big stink about it then. Anything beyond that would be at best pointless, wild speculation at this time.
Estelie Heyan
Xri
#99 - 2015-11-04 18:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Estelie Heyan
This entire thread is moot because nothing has changed hands. The Kickstarter doesn't close for almost 5 weeks. Until then The Mittani can't collect the money, so nothing so far has been exchanged. At best it's a gentleman's agreement that either party has plenty of time to alter or back out of.

The stretch goal was changed, obviously it was a misunderstanding about what can and cant be offered to backers. Sorry your gotcha moment is a dud.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#100 - 2015-11-04 18:27:33 UTC
mech res wrote:


You may like the mittani or like the idea of this book, but even you I would hope, can understand that ccp should not give him special rights to break rules they set up for other players. Rather than disparage people who ask for an explanation, maybe you can explain why what eveiseasy was doing is different than mittani taking money for roams.


I don't know the guy, have never met the guy, and I have been shooting at his Goons in this game since 2008 (and I had jsut join my current alliance right before the war started, so i was only 'blue to Goons' for a few weeks, and even that was hard). I don't care about him and won't be buying his book (when I want to remember the fountain War I'll go back and look at some killmails, i was there).

But that doesn't make me blind to how..wrong..your posting about all this is. It's one or two guys being jealous about what's going on with some other internet guy and then not understanding why the rest of us just don't care. You know you aren't asking a question here, it's plain to see what you think about all this by the very existence of this thread.



TL;DR You have the right to talk about whatever your want to, just don't expect everyone to share your concerns about something that has nothing to do with us.