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What is CCP giving to The Mittani?

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#101 - 2015-11-04 18:32:11 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Why the obsession with legalities ? This is surely more to do with the players' perception of whether CCP favours in game players/groups and it's a perception they take seriously, hence the formation of the CSM after T2bpogate.

This "take it up with Icelandic courts" stuff is a massive strawman


To some, everything is a 'strawman'. I'm not trying to deflect anything, I'm saying that if you have a problem with something, do something about it (quit, sue, whatever) or stfu. Worrying about who CCP is favoring is simply evidence of jealousy, and posts like this is manipulations masquerading as questions. Moot questions at that, CCP ain't going to tell you if they give Mittens something more than permission anyway.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#102 - 2015-11-04 18:41:46 UTC
Estelie Heyan wrote:
This entire thread is moot because nothing has changed hands. The Kickstarter doesn't close for almost 5 weeks. Until then The Mittani can't collect the money, so nothing so far has been exchanged. At best it's a gentleman's agreement that either party has plenty of time to alter or back out of.

The stretch goal was changed, obviously it was a misunderstanding about what can and cant be offered to backers. Sorry your gotcha moment is a dud.


Possibly... or perhaps it was all fine until *players* noticed it (twice) and brought it to wider attention. The fact it has been changed (twice) doesn't really make the questions about CCP/Mittani relations go away, it just confirms *something* is off...


baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#103 - 2015-11-04 18:48:33 UTC
mech res wrote:


I asked what ccp gave the mittani. CCP Falcon said they gave rights to the ip to use in the book. He didn't say that was all they gave. I am not sure if that is all they gave, so I am asking.


The fox news tactic.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#104 - 2015-11-04 18:48:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Why the obsession with legalities ? This is surely more to do with the players' perception of whether CCP favours in game players/groups and it's a perception they take seriously, hence the formation of the CSM after T2bpogate.

This "take it up with Icelandic courts" stuff is a massive strawman


To some, everything is a 'strawman'. I'm not trying to deflect anything, I'm saying that if you have a problem with something, do something about it (quit, sue, whatever) or stfu. Worrying about who CCP is favoring is simply evidence of jealousy, and posts like this is manipulations masquerading as questions. Moot questions at that, CCP ain't going to tell you if they give Mittens something more than permission anyway.


The OP just asked a question, you extrapolated that question into some bollocks about taking it to court, nobody has suggested that court is where this should end up, merely that questions be answered.

It's a total strawman.

Also you offer a lovely false dichotomy there as well when you suggest that if we don't like something we should quit or sue, how about we exercise a more measured option and just ask what actually happened and then make our minds up ?

It seems like you have no point to make unless twisting people's arguments into one logical fallacy or another.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2015-11-04 18:50:09 UTC
Brian Harrelstein wrote:
.

I see your point... not sure I agree with it, though.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Estelie Heyan
Xri
#106 - 2015-11-04 18:50:09 UTC
I'm gonna bite one more time then leave you lemmings to circle the same dumb arguement over and over. Yall are having a hard time separating the ingame character The Mittani from The Mittani Media™

If the 150K goal is not met, TMC can't buy a year of Jeff Edwards' time + CCP's cut and the project is abandoned.

Mittens doesnt get anything personally from this deal except the accomplishment/ gift to the community of this book.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#107 - 2015-11-04 19:07:45 UTC
Estelie Heyan wrote:
I'm gonna bite one more time then leave you lemmings to circle the same dumb arguement over and over. Yall are having a hard time separating the ingame character The Mittani from The Mittani Media™

If the 150K goal is not met, TMC can't buy a year of Jeff Edwards' time + CCP's cut and the project is abandoned.

Mittens doesnt get anything personally from this deal except the accomplishment/ gift to the community of this book.


Wait, TMM will be giving this book away for nothing ?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#108 - 2015-11-04 19:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Portmanteau wrote:


The OP just asked a question, you extrapolated that question into some bollocks about taking it to court, nobody has suggested that court is where this should end up, merely that questions be answered.


That's bull. The OP obvious has a problem with all this.

Quote:

It's a total strawman.


The real irony is that you calling this a strawman is in itself a strawman attempt.

Lets be clear. You and the OP can dislike mittani, Goons, CCP whatever all you like. And you can pretend you are simply 'asking a question" when your posting suggests you already "know" the answer. But others of us are just going to call it like we see it.

Quote:

Also you offer a lovely false dichotomy there as well when you suggest that if we don't like something we should quit or sue, how about we exercise a more measured option and just ask what actually happened and then make our minds up ?


Now you're just lying. like the OP, you mind is already made up and you know it. You wouldn't have posted in the manner you have unless your mind was made up. Your distrust of CCP is showing.

A CCP employer posted in this thread the answer to the OPs 'question', yet the OP does not relent, suggesting that the IOP doesn't trust CCP...

....which come back to my original statement about him (and you): if you don't trust the people you are paying, why are you paying them? If you have to question what they are doing in the 1st place, why are you paying them?

Quote:

It seems like you have no point to make unless twisting people's arguments into one logical fallacy or another.


I'm not twisting anything. I'm just 'asking a question'......
CrewSandwich
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2015-11-04 19:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CrewSandwich
Portmanteau wrote:
Estelie Heyan wrote:
I'm gonna bite one more time then leave you lemmings to circle the same dumb arguement over and over. Yall are having a hard time separating the ingame character The Mittani from The Mittani Media™

If the 150K goal is not met, TMC can't buy a year of Jeff Edwards' time + CCP's cut and the project is abandoned.

Mittens doesnt get anything personally from this deal except the accomplishment/ gift to the community of this book.


Wait, TMM will be giving this book away for nothing ?

I dunno dude would you like to raise these funds and put together something like this and devote your time, effort and energy, then deal with all this grief from the community?

Its like going to Time Warner Cable and demanding to know the financials of the deal they cut with mom & pop electricians for line service in Toldeo, Ohio.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2015-11-04 19:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Nafensoriel wrote:
Yeah its getting mildly disturbing that people today assume all game IP lore doesn't belong to the developer. They own the EVE world.. to do anything EVE related CCP needs to give you their nod of approval or explicitly state you can play in their proverbial sandbox of dreams.


Also Mittens Gets Kittens.
Oh come on.. admit it Kittens even make putin look soft and cuddly. Grr goons to aww kittens.


personally, i find it distrubing that people even subscribe to the idea of copyright. Stealing physical objects is one thing. taking a picture of the Mona Lisa should not be considered grand theft.

And what about all the startrek/starwars/etc fanfiction? should we need to buy a licence to write our own little stories like that? Thats ridiculous
What about the people who do little story videos in minecraft? should all those kid's parents by dragged though courts and made to cough up the licencing fees for minecraft?

I had a youtube video with a 30 second clip of some music in it, immediately was pulled down with DMCA requests saying i stole their music. Holy **** really? it was a team fortress classic video with a bit of music, not even the whole song.

its the criminalization of harmless human behavior that i find distrubing

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#111 - 2015-11-04 19:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Portmanteau]

The OP just asked a question, you extrapolated that question into some bollocks about taking it to court, nobody has suggested that court is where this should end up, merely that questions be answered.


That's bull. The OP obvious has a problem with all this.

Quote:

It's a total strawman.


The real irony is that you calling this a strawman is in itself a strawman attempt.

Lets be clear. You and the OP can dislike mittani, Goons, CCP whatever all you like. And you can pretend you are simply 'asking a question" when your posting suggests you already "know" the answer. But others of us are just going to call it like we see it.

Quote:

Also you offer a lovely false dichotomy there as well when you suggest that if we don't like something we should quit or sue, how about we exercise a more measured option and just ask what actually happened and then make our minds up ?[/quote[

Now your just lying. like the OP, you mind is already made up and you know it. You wouldn't have posted in the manner you have unless your mind was made up. Your distrust of CCP is showing.

A CCP employer posted in this thread the answer to the OPs 'question', yet the OP does not relent, suggesting that the IOP doesn't trust CCP...

....which come back to my original statement about him (and you): if you don't trust the people you are paying, why are you paying them? If you have to question what they are doing in the 1st place, why are you paying them?

Quote:

It seems like you have no point to make unless twisting people's arguments into one logical fallacy or another.


I'm not twisting anything. I'm just 'asking a question'......


Jenn, nowhere has the OP stated a dislike for Mittens, I myself have no particular dislike for Mittens or Goons, I have actually stated in this thread already that this book could be good for EvE/CCP by bringing favorable exposure. Your whole argument seems to rely on your speculation about people's motives.

In other words, your argument is bollocks.

EDIT : actually OP has stated dislike for or at least distrust of Mittens but I would say why does someone's motivation invalidate the question ? The question being asked by the OP and now myself is the same question, I have no like or dislike for Mittens whatsoever ... does that make the question any more or less valid... Not in my opinion, the question stands on it's own.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-11-04 19:34:25 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
how about we exercise a more measured option and just ask what actually happened and then make our minds up ?


That sentence implies you didn't make your mind up before you posted Blink
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#113 - 2015-11-04 19:41:16 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
how about we exercise a more measured option and just ask what actually happened and then make our minds up ?


That sentence implies you didn't make your mind up before you posted Blink


Not sure if you're making a joke, accusing me of something or I just got whooshed Blink
mech res
Fwaction Warfare Corporwation
#114 - 2015-11-04 19:41:38 UTC  |  Edited by: mech res
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
how about we exercise a more measured option and just ask what actually happened and then make our minds up ?


That sentence implies you didn't make your mind up before you posted Blink


I didn't make up my mind before I posted. If the only thing ccp did was give him the right to use eve and eve trademarked names in the book then I support their decision - assuming they would give it to other players. Which they apparently have.



Jenn aSide wrote:
Worrying about who CCP is favoring is simply evidence of jealousy, and posts like this is manipulations masquerading as questions. Moot questions at that, CCP ain't going to tell you if they give Mittens something more than permission anyway.




Heres the thing. CCP should apply the same rules to all the players.

Jealously, likes, and dislikes should play no role.

As has been said there are some things in the kickstarter that seem to go against CCP's rmt rulings. It has been documented so we can just wait to see if ccp responds.

I would still like to have it confirmed that allowing the book to use the ip is the only involvment ccp has with this project. I would hope after the t2bpo scandal ccp would be transparent.

Some goon is now saying that mittani is not getting the profits from the book and only ccp and the author are. He didn't give a source though. So who knows? Is there a partnership between ccp and the mittani where they share profits or not?

As far as CCP supporting propaganda for a particular alliance, I don't think we can unring that bell. Whats done is done.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#115 - 2015-11-04 19:43:08 UTC
mech res wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Licensing for the book to use the EVE Universe IP.




Thanks for the information. If this is as far as it goes, I am glad ccp is doing this - assuming they would do this for other players and not just one.

Is that as far as the support goes?

Saying CCP is "collaborat[ing]" with the mittani and the author seems to imply a bit more. But those are the mittani's words not CCP's and I have learned to take his word with a grain of salt.


Stop looking for a scandal where there isn't one... Roll

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RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2015-11-04 19:43:50 UTC
After reading (mostly) through the replies, am I understanding the arguments correctly that someone is saying the reward of being allowed to go on a roam with The Mittani for a certain level of backing to the kickstarter is RMT? Can someone explain that deranged logic to me? Or straighten out my understanding if that's not what's being said.

I can technically understand the concern about his corpse being offered, but as the corpse doesn't have an actual use in game mechanics or provide any bonus, wtf really cares?

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#117 - 2015-11-04 19:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
RoAnnon wrote:
After reading (mostly) through the replies, am I understanding the arguments correctly that someone is saying the reward of being allowed to go on a roam with The Mittani for a certain level of backing to the kickstarter is RMT? Can someone explain that deranged logic to me? Or straighten out my understanding if that's not what's being said.

I can technically understand the concern about his corpse being offered, but as the corpse doesn't have an actual use in game mechanics or provide any bonus, wtf really cares?


EvEiseasy got prevented from offering pvp advice for money, no physical in game items, just interaction with a player (not even in game interaction). Why is going on a roam with Mittani for $200 different ?

EDIT : about the corpse, nobody cares whether the corpse gives an in game advantage, it's the $200 it was being effectively sold for.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2015-11-04 19:49:55 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Tech moons to build stupid ridiculous space wealth.

T2 BPOs to build even more stupidly insane space wealth.

...

The question should be, what has CCP not given Mittens?


Err,

When Moon Goo was rebalanced to put the production bottleneck in to Technetium, Goonswarm wasn't even living in the north (Technetium being found in Cloud Ring - Vale of the Silent) - they were busy fighting BOB/IT for Delve... the region which held the previous bottleneck before it was changed to technitium. If anything, CCP took the money moons away from Goonswarm.

The T2 BPO's were given to BOB, who was at war with Goonswarm.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2015-11-04 19:50:25 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
After reading (mostly) through the replies, am I understanding the arguments correctly that someone is saying the reward of being allowed to go on a roam with The Mittani for a certain level of backing to the kickstarter is RMT? Can someone explain that deranged logic to me? Or straighten out my understanding if that's not what's being said.

I can technically understand the concern about his corpse being offered, but as the corpse doesn't have an actual use in game mechanics or provide any bonus, wtf really cares?


EvEiseasy got prevented from offering pvp advice for money, no physical in game items, just interaction with a player (not even in game interaction). Why is going on a roam with Mittani for $200 different ?

To stay in theme with your answer: Because being allowed to join a roam fleet and getting in-game advice on how to fly are not the same at all.

So any actual explanations?

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#120 - 2015-11-04 19:53:26 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
wtf really cares?


People who grasp at items such as straws.