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MASS-PROTEST AGAINST EXPLORING THE CHARACTER BAZAAR & SKILL TRADING

First post First post
Author
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#201 - 2015-11-03 14:43:07 UTC
Nate Hill wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Nate Hill wrote:
And BURN JITA is losers rage against innocent people, which is so barbarous.
Have you ever heard of appeal to somebody for something, which eventually harms others?
That's protests turn to riots in real life.


EvE is not real life HTH

Playing EVE is real life.


Have you considered the possibility that people play characters in a fictional online game in a way that is contrary to the way they act in real life ?
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2015-11-03 14:50:23 UTC
i sometimes pretend my car is a dramiel and enjoy chasing the manticore's around the town while listening to Pete and the Pirates and saying yarr to pedestrians #eveisreal

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Nate Hill
Rocket No. 9
#203 - 2015-11-03 15:00:30 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Nate Hill wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Nate Hill wrote:
And BURN JITA is losers rage against innocent people, which is so barbarous.
Have you ever heard of appeal to somebody for something, which eventually harms others?
That's protests turn to riots in real life.


EvE is not real life HTH

Playing EVE is real life.


Have you considered the possibility that people play characters in a fictional online game in a way that is contrary to the way they act in real life ?

Yes, anyone who does the same thing in real life has been put into jail.
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#204 - 2015-11-03 15:05:53 UTC
1. The character bazaar has been a thing since before I started playing.

2. No amount of money will make you good at EVE. This has been proven 100s of times by wallet warriors who spend 100s or 1000s of dollars on plex to buy characters or ships they do not have the knowledge or skill to use. Then promptly get it all blown up. Leaving them with two empty wallets and nothing to show for it.

No amount of SP or RL cash makes you a better player.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#205 - 2015-11-03 16:01:33 UTC
Signed.

Not today spaghetti.

Doddy
Excidium.
#206 - 2015-11-03 16:15:45 UTC
Um what is the problem here? All that is happening is characters which were sold as a whole are now being sold in 500k packets. So basically it has made it open to non super rich people (in game or out of game). Why on earth would you expect a mass protest against somethig which will only help the majority and especially new players, players with less rl money and players with less in game money?
Avvy
Doomheim
#207 - 2015-11-03 16:17:29 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Um what is the problem here? All that is happening is characters which were sold as a whole are now being sold in 500k packets. So basically it has made it open to non super rich people (in game or out of game). Why on earth would you expect a mass protest against somethig which will only help the majority and especially new players, players with less rl money and players with less in game money?



So what is the estimate for the cost of a 500k packet?
Doddy
Excidium.
#208 - 2015-11-03 16:25:56 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
It's not going to help new players. It will cost far too much for them. These changes will help old players make alts and rich corps, mostly ones that recruit from outside of the game.


No, currently the new player has no chance of buying a character in the Bazarr, with skill packets he will have every chance of buying a 500k skill packet when he has the isk. It is a massive improvement from the new players point of view. Same goes for the player who has limited play time and thus could never make the isk to buy a character from the bazarr, again he can buy small pieces as and when he can afford it. Finally players with limited rl money can sacrifice unwanted sp to help afford plex, basically everyone wins.

Old players and rich corps could just buy alts in the bazaar anyway, forcing up prices for everyone, at least this way they wont be buying more than they need sp wise and there will be less upward pressure on prices (especially with the diminishing returns, for high power alts the bazarr will still be better). And really how many alts do you need?

If you are really complaining about organisations who bring new players into the game giving thier recruits a helping hand sp wise that is just sad. It is also pointless since they already provide them with a helping hand in all other regards and often said recruits end up just buying chars through the bazarr with thier subsidised alliance income, so again all that has changed is removal of waste sp from the game.
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#209 - 2015-11-03 16:28:29 UTC
So much whining and complaining coming from the bored bittervets and the "how dare you change my Eve to make it more player friendly" crowd and yet no mass protests or concerns from the great silent majority of players because this proposed change won't harm the game. I've yet to see one well-reasoned argument presented as to why this change would be so harmful considering that characters can already be bought.
Doddy
Excidium.
#210 - 2015-11-03 16:32:21 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Um what is the problem here? All that is happening is characters which were sold as a whole are now being sold in 500k packets. So basically it has made it open to non super rich people (in game or out of game). Why on earth would you expect a mass protest against somethig which will only help the majority and especially new players, players with less rl money and players with less in game money?



So what is the estimate for the cost of a 500k packet?


Impossible to say until ccp tell us how much the mechanism will cost. The cheaper that is the more players can afford (through in game or out of game money) to make packets, therefore the lower the cost of the packets.

Even if it is prohibitively expensive it will still be cheaper than buying a char, since a char will always have waste sp that the seller will expect to be paid for. Most importantly low sp chars are not sold, since the isk benefit of selling them is less than the cost of transferring the character. So a new player could never buy a 3 or 4 mil sp character, but now they can buy themselves up to a 2.5 mil character trained how they want it (unless ccp completely screws up the pricing, which they still could).
Doddy
Excidium.
#211 - 2015-11-03 16:38:26 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Railroad Cop wrote:
it has been built around benefiting new players


So long as they have real life cash to stump up in addition to the subscription fee, that's really going to bring hordes of new guys Roll


Rl cash, friends in game, donations or even just being very quick learners who are held back buy their sp not their isk income? Whatever it wil be easier for them than buying a whole character.
Doddy
Excidium.
#212 - 2015-11-03 16:56:40 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Valacus wrote:
Throw them a bone.

How is charging them real life money throwing them a bone ? It's exploiting them. Helping them would be something like increasing starting SP and lowering training times to reach level 5 for support skills or something that didn't cost extra ion top of the sub.


How is it going to cost extra on top of the sub? They buy it from market, or better still recieve it in a donation like all the other stuff players/groups/corps donate to new players. It is the people selling the sp who are spending rl money, though even they can use isk in the same way you can buy a plex. From the recievers point of view it is not different than saving for implants, other than the fact implants don't give reduced benefits to older players.
Doddy
Excidium.
#213 - 2015-11-03 17:08:07 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
The Power Broker wrote:

It has the possibility of reducing PLEX prices..... Check
or inflating them further, unless you can reliably predict whether people will pay with more farmed isk or bought plex it's impossible to say

Quote:
It will help new players try more things instead of missions..... Check
Really ? Having more Skillpoints instantly will change hisec bears playstyle where having more skillpoints over time has failed to do so ?

Quote:
It should bring more players into Eve and or retain them...... Check
It may keep players away when it gets around that in EvE, not only do you need to pay a subscription up front, but you need to buy X quantity of skillpoints for X amount of RL cash before you can do anything worthwhile. This will be the new perception of many new players if this goes live. So much for the NPE.

Quote:
Obviously these are all if's and maybe's
You're not kidding. Blink


How on earth is moving from the situation where the incorrect belief is you need to skill up for 3 months before you can do anything to another incorrect belief where you have to skill up for 3 months before you can do anything but can take a short cut with either rl or in game currency in any way a negative?

And ever since eve started it has been the case the longer players stayed in high sec training for whatever level sp they percieved was needed out in the real world the less liklely they ever were to actually go do it, clearly anything which could reduce that spent getting used to high sec and get players into the rest of the game earlier would be beneficial. Players tend to settle down early in eve and then resist change.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#214 - 2015-11-03 22:42:58 UTC
you could at least buy me drink before crawling up my arse you know Blink
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#215 - 2015-11-03 22:58:04 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Railroad Cop wrote:
it has been built around benefiting new players


So long as they have real life cash to stump up in addition to the subscription fee, that's really going to bring hordes of new guys Roll


Rl cash, friends in game, donations or even just being very quick learners who are held back buy their sp not their isk income? Whatever it wil be easier for them than buying a whole character.


Why are you comparing it to buying a new character from the bazaar, most new guys don't buy characters. Many players are not even aware of the CB for a long time. Character bazaar is not in their face. TSPs will be front and centre, on the market in "affordable" chunks, if a new player doesn't have the money to buy plex to buy TSPs on top of their sub they will most likely know someone in game who does, that's pressure to compete straight away.

That you would propose that new bros will be getting donations from players in game if they cannot afford to plex for TSPs is just hilarious, even the big powerblocs won't be dropping these TSPs on new guys who could join the alliance, get the TSP and the *** off again.

These will be out of reach of new players until they serve time with a powerbloc, learn to make enough isk or bite the bullet and drop R/L cash on a plex. New players and those thinking about subscribing will perceive that if they want to keep up with other new players, it will cost them, their subscription and a plex or 2 for skillpoints.

It's not a good message to be sending out.
ReptilesBlade
The Order of Merlin
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#216 - 2015-11-04 00:09:47 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I think the proposed change is a good idea. I would think otherwise if the character bazaar were not already a thing. But it is, so bring it on.


The simple fact of the matter is that we need a way to transfer or purchase SP in this game badly. There already exist a standard for something like that for ISK/Aurum and game time via PLEX.

I left the game for three years and almost never came back. During that time I started trying out and enjoying some mobile games. They use the same kind of time based skill or advancement system that Eve does for skills but with the added bonus of giving the customer the option to spend just a little extra and cut out a significant part of the bullshit. For the first 3-4 months I came back I kept looking at my skill que and subconsciously wishing for such an option.

I am an old vet with almost 100 million SP but I cannot wait for this new system. Why? Because I can spend a little of my copious amounts of ISK and cut out all the time spent training advanced skills that I am not optimized for such as Leadership, Jump Freighter/Carrier training, finishing off my drone skills, and improving my almost non-existent gunnery skills. I will happily pay multiple billions of ISK, and even a little RL US dollars, to take out a significant portion of my existing training que for the next 4-6 months. I would not do it a lot but a one time extra injection of of say 5-10 million SP at most would fix sooo many problems and holes in my characters skills. It would also enable to finally start actually training and maybe enjoying an alt.

The gaming industry in general has evolved and Eve needs to evolve with it or it will die and I don't think any of us want that.
strangescript
Solus Ventures
#217 - 2015-11-04 00:11:32 UTC
Fundamentally, Eve is struggling as of late because its too slow. It takes forever to do anything meaningful, including training skills.

The few of us that have been around since the beginning know that the game was originally designed where you gain skillpoints over time AND from doing things in game. You shoot autocannons in game, your autocannon skillpoints go up.

It was removed very early because of exploiting. If I remember correctly, it was assumed the system would be fixed at the time.

Since then, everything is time locked. You start the game, you dig it, and realize one day you want to fly some battleship with at least average skills. Great, I will get back to you in two months (at the bare minimum). Oh, and there is literally no way you can speed it up. That is a tough pill to swallow compared to competition in the sandboxy, risk vs reward pvp genre these days.

Frankly, you have been able to buy isk (via plex), and with it, a high SKP character for a long time. The world has not ended. Making the process easier isn't going to change anything. Plus it kills a lot of other birds with the same stone, like getting rid of wasted skills, respecing and character/account merging.

Avvy
Doomheim
#218 - 2015-11-04 01:13:35 UTC
strangescript wrote:
Fundamentally, Eve is struggling as of late because its too slow. It takes forever to do anything meaningful, including training skills.

The few of us that have been around since the beginning know that the game was originally designed where you gain skillpoints over time AND from doing things in game. You shoot autocannons in game, your autocannon skillpoints go up.

It was removed very early because of exploiting. If I remember correctly, it was assumed the system would be fixed at the time.

Since then, everything is time locked. You start the game, you dig it, and realize one day you want to fly some battleship with at least average skills. Great, I will get back to you in two months (at the bare minimum). Oh, and there is literally no way you can speed it up. That is a tough pill to swallow compared to competition in the sandboxy, risk vs reward pvp genre these days.

Frankly, you have been able to buy isk (via plex), and with it, a high SKP character for a long time. The world has not ended. Making the process easier isn't going to change anything. Plus it kills a lot of other birds with the same stone, like getting rid of wasted skills, respecing and character/account merging.



Was it exploiting or some players were progressing too fast?

Similar thing happened with Saga of Ryzom (sandbox game), people were progressing too fast so they nerfed the progress, in the process they turned it into more of a grind and people left as WoW was being released at that time.

They would have lost some to WoW anyway, but they lost more because they annoyed their player base. It never recovered from that.
strangescript
Solus Ventures
#219 - 2015-11-04 01:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: strangescript
Avvy wrote:
strangescript wrote:
Fundamentally, Eve is struggling as of late because its too slow. It takes forever to do anything meaningful, including training skills.

The few of us that have been around since the beginning know that the game was originally designed where you gain skillpoints over time AND from doing things in game. You shoot autocannons in game, your autocannon skillpoints go up.

It was removed very early because of exploiting. If I remember correctly, it was assumed the system would be fixed at the time.

Since then, everything is time locked. You start the game, you dig it, and realize one day you want to fly some battleship with at least average skills. Great, I will get back to you in two months (at the bare minimum). Oh, and there is literally no way you can speed it up. That is a tough pill to swallow compared to competition in the sandboxy, risk vs reward pvp genre these days.

Frankly, you have been able to buy isk (via plex), and with it, a high SKP character for a long time. The world has not ended. Making the process easier isn't going to change anything. Plus it kills a lot of other birds with the same stone, like getting rid of wasted skills, respecing and character/account merging.



Was it exploiting or some players were progressing too fast?

Similar thing happened with Saga of Ryzom (sandbox game), people were progressing too fast so they nerfed the progress, in the process they turned it into more of a grind and people left as WoW was being released at that time.

They would have lost some to WoW anyway, but they lost more because they annoyed their player base. It never recovered from that.



I think it was a combination of both. Honestly, 2003 was a long time ago. Given the way combat in Eve works its all too easy to do things relatively AFK.

Either way, most gamers (kids) these days (waves cane in the air) like to be able to do things fast, or at least have a path that lets them actively achieve their goals quickly if they put effort into it. There is no way to that with skillpoints. I hesitantly say its similar to a theme park MMO saying you gain a level a day automatically and that's it. (puts on flame suit)

For what its worth, I would be more upset if someone I was fighting spent isk to get a capital that shouldn't have rather than skillpoints. The former being totally possible with the current system today.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#220 - 2015-11-04 11:34:38 UTC
The reason i play is because it is time locked, not grind locked. If it was grind locked then I am out of here. I can't play 20 hours a week like when i was 16. I have a job. I have a life. Skill point via time is brilliant, because playing a few hours a week does not put me at a disadvantage from login time.

Make it all super fast, and all you get is everyone leaving after 2 months because "no new content, can already fly titan" crap.

It is not a FPS. Don't make it one.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.