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[December] Balance Smorgasbord

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Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#181 - 2015-10-18 00:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Perrdy Lady wrote:
Finally find a ship thats fun and great, in comes ccp with the nerf hammer. Every. Single. Time. I'm starting to ask myself, why even bother anymore.


Perhaps you should stop relying on ships that are hugely OP and try developing some actual piloting skill instead ?

Edit : I just realised ur a butthurt PVEr, now all this whine makes sense
Alek Row
Silent Step
#182 - 2015-10-18 00:06:26 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Yeah i agree with some voices there i don't want to see ac punishers or blaster.

Screw it as was said keep ship as it was and just add another low....


Hi Naomi, I don't think that is the way.
Even if my alt never flew amarr, I will cry "foul" in this one, one extra slot just because the ship only have 2mids? Give me that to wolf and claw then - inties with only 2 mids is so sad. Punisher should be exec, and exec should be the "wanna be slicer", change both, give 3 mids to tormentor and 2 to exec with bonus to their roles (exec already have some, just need a range one).
Too much work? Make punisher a drone or rocket boat.
One extra slot? wtf?
OBS: I'm drunk, so this should be very accurate :)
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#183 - 2015-10-18 01:22:19 UTC
Alek Row wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Yeah i agree with some voices there i don't want to see ac punishers or blaster.

Screw it as was said keep ship as it was and just add another low....


Hi Naomi, I don't think that is the way.
Even if my alt never flew amarr, I will cry "foul" in this one, one extra slot just because the ship only have 2mids? Give me that to wolf and claw then - inties with only 2 mids is so sad. Punisher should be exec, and exec should be the "wanna be slicer", change both, give 3 mids to tormentor and 2 to exec with bonus to their roles (exec already have some, just need a range one).
Too much work? Make punisher a drone or rocket boat.
One extra slot? wtf?
OBS: I'm drunk, so this should be very accurate :)


It also got a big fitting buff, so if i did my maths right with max skills you have 202 CPU and 84 PG Smile
A frig with 5 lows, lots of fitting resources and a bonus to armor resists will be awesome with logi in a gang.

I like the new punisher even for solo I think it can work very well in a few different roles, and in solo that's an important thing to keep people guessing, you don't want to be flying a predictable fit everyone knows or you'll only get fights you can't win. That's part of what makes the Tristan so good, people don't really know what to expect.

might be OP if it got buffed much more imo, but I guess swapping the cap use bonus for range/tracking or a bonus to the capacitor itself would be nice. Definitely not in favour of another missile or drone based frigate though.
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q
#184 - 2015-10-18 01:31:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Orthrus:
  • Reduce damage bonus to +15% per level
    • yeah, it was the damage that was the problem

    fozziepls

    Hey! I don't know about you

    but I'm joining CTRL-Q
    Evoque
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #185 - 2015-10-18 02:44:22 UTC
    Gila: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU
    http://i.imgur.com/IathBfB.gif
    Kasumi Gotto
    Commando Guri
    Guristas Pirates
    #186 - 2015-10-18 03:58:11 UTC
    Reasonable changes. I only wish the Breacher was getting a bit bigger drone bay by 5m3 or 10m3
    W0lf Crendraven
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #187 - 2015-10-18 04:02:59 UTC
    Tristan nerf is way to small, breacher and torm buff are totally unneeded. Small projectile weapons need a rebalance already, the entire weapon system is garbage and the svipul/thrasher only salvage it due to the absurd amount of effective turrets they have. No pg and cpu buff is going to save the slasher/rifter.


    [Rifter, eedd]
    Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II

    1MN Afterburner II
    X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
    J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

    280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
    280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
    280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
    Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

    Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
    Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
    [empty rig slot]

    see this fit, that still wouldnt fit, not that its good anyways, but due to the garbage layout of the ship you cant really help it anyways. This fit is garbage, if you compare it to

    [Executioner, AB Beam (scram kite)]
    Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
    Damage Control II
    Heat Sink II

    1MN Afterburner II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

    Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
    Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
    Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
    [empty high slot]

    Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
    Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
    Small Ancillary Current Router I

    they do about the same dps, exe tracks way better, has instant reload, is 200m/s faster, better agility, way better tank due to having a rep and its all around way better, not to mention that unlike the rifter this actually fits.


    Or

    [Tormentor, New Setup 1]
    Internal Force Field Array I
    Heat Sink II
    Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
    Overdrive Injector System II

    1MN Afterburner II
    Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

    Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
    Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
    Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S

    Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
    Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
    Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

    Hobgoblin II x2

    (fake fit, real version has a anp instead of the od, so dont copy it and use it), faster, way more dps, way more tank, drone utility, better tracking, more ehp, saar all around a incredebly powerfull ship. And it all fits (unlike that made up rifter).


    Or lets take the only non ac minnie t1 frigate, the breacher

    [Breacher, ab]
    Ballistic Control System II
    Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
    Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

    J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
    Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    1MN Afterburner II

    Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket

    Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

    Hobgoblin II x2
    Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket x300
    Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x300
    Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket x300
    Mjolnir Rage Rocket x300
    Nova Rage Rocket x300
    Navy Cap Booster 50 x18
    Nanite Repair Paste x24

    That for once doesnt totally outdamage that make belive rifter, although it comes close, it however has rockets so no tracking issues, has WAY more tank and is all around along with the torm and tristan by far the best t1 frigate around.





    The rifter needs MORE, and it either needs the svipul treatment or the garbage that are small acs (and mediums too tbh) finally need to get fixed and balanced properly.
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #188 - 2015-10-18 04:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
    Nafensoriel wrote:
    Yli Canis wrote:
    The Gila nerf is absolutely brutal to Jspace denizens soling C3s.

    Max passive regen I can eft is 663, with all Vs, faction extenders and A-type amplifiers. That's on a ship that will run you around 600 mil at jita and has 0 insurance (huge risk of losing all your investment). With t2 extenders (~120 mil cheaper) the max tank with all Vs is around 630.

    The lowest-dps C3 site has a 669 dps wave.


    So basically what this nerf really amounts to is a huge hit to the income of Wormhole corps who do not run escalations or carrier rat; The already-huge gap in income between the C5/6 krabs and the rest of Jspace will continue to widen. The rich get richer or remain equally rich, the poor just lost their main money-maker and it just got that much more difficult to get by.


    I'm sure there are many means of nerfing it for PvP without crushing its PvE utility, and honestly wonder if you guys have considered the massive impact this nerf will have to your wormhole dwellers. There has got to be a better way to go about this....Unless this is just a straight-on nerf to sub-C4 Jspace income? In which case I would emphatically ask *why*?


    Unfortunately to balance anything in eve against WH space would greatly imbalance things for everywhere else.
    So yes... the pirate cruiser with a battleship grade tank is losing its battleship grade tank in favor of a cruiser grade tank. Sucks for WH. Is balanced for literally everywhere else. Whrs need to just take one for the team and HTFU.


    One could do that, or one could reduce the damage another way without making it ineffective for the PVE he is describing.

    He is pointing out that there may be a way of reducing the damage another way than removing a low slot. Possibly by either removing a missile hardpoint/ High slot or If the team feels a low must go, compensate it by increasing the passive regen to replace a shield power relay, Which does not help PVP but helps keep PVE utility.

    There is PVE in other places than wormholes, HS , LS, Null basically absolutely everywhere, So are you saying ALL PVE players should Take one for the team because PVP players used it to excess?

    Hardly balanced that, is it?

    I use the Gila for PVP too, Great ship, Still good for PVP, we will cope. Absolutely buggered for it's primary PVE role now as a passive regen ship though.

    CCP Fozzie has asked us to point out issues,and things are not finalised.

    Do people think he is superman, plus the wisdom and infallibility of the Pope?

    Of course he needs feedback from the people who use the ships, in the areas they use them. He is asking for our input.

    And like any reasonable person he will look and see where the unforeseen problems created by the proposal, can be mitigated, whilst still achieving the primary goal.

    We shouldn't get to worried at this point from a PVE point of view, regarding PVP, the effective damage reduction is in the right ballpark and honestly expected by most, CCP will just hopefully pick a different way of achieving the same goal, He has said he has an open mind.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Portmanteau
    Iron Krosz
    #189 - 2015-10-18 05:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
    W0lf Crendraven wrote:
    Tristan nerf is way to small, breacher and torm buff are totally unneeded. Small projectile weapons need a rebalance already, the entire weapon system is garbage and the svipul/thrasher only salvage it due to the absurd amount of effective turrets they have. No pg and cpu buff is going to save the slasher/rifter.

    SNIP





    The rifter needs MORE, and it either needs the svipul treatment or the garbage that are small acs (and mediums too tbh) finally need to get fixed and balanced properly.


    agree rifter is in desperate need, ironically the bizarre punisher buff (conversion of utility to turret and additional low) would be ideal for the rifter with appropriate CPU and PG adjustments.

    Tristan needs nerfing way way more, it can fit all the things with ease and pesky hull rigs have no meaningful pvp drawback, tiny speed nerf is just pointless. Take a drone away, put an agility drawback on hull rigs or reduce the CPU or PG so it can't fit everything without breaking a sweat.
    Portmanteau
    Iron Krosz
    #190 - 2015-10-18 05:21:14 UTC
    Kasumi Gotto wrote:
    Reasonable changes. I only wish the Breacher was getting a bit bigger drone bay by 5m3 or 10m3


    what ? it's already one of the best solo frigs in the game Shocked
    Shalashaska Adam
    Snakes and Lasers
    #191 - 2015-10-18 07:13:01 UTC
    Mad Abbat wrote:
    Yes 5th slot is great, but you can't fit inything in it, because it have on extra CPU.

    One resist plating won't make it shine. Damage output is still pathetic, it needs t2 lasers to work, so can't be "derpfit to same extend as atron or tristan.

    It needs to have that damage bonus on top of that 4th turret and needs that extra cpu to fit heatsink/energised membrane/rcu2 to make beam plated mwd fit

    It's fitting space is now more than sufficient to utilize all the slots.

    Damage output is completely fine for a fleet frigate.

    It doesn't need T2 lasers to work, doesn't even need lasers to work.

    Personally I think the 5 low idea was the absolute right way to go.

    Some very interesting fits are going to get made.
    Portmanteau
    Iron Krosz
    #192 - 2015-10-18 07:36:25 UTC
    Shalashaska Adam wrote:
    Mad Abbat wrote:
    Yes 5th slot is great, but you can't fit inything in it, because it have on extra CPU.

    One resist plating won't make it shine. Damage output is still pathetic, it needs t2 lasers to work, so can't be "derpfit to same extend as atron or tristan.

    It needs to have that damage bonus on top of that 4th turret and needs that extra cpu to fit heatsink/energised membrane/rcu2 to make beam plated mwd fit

    It's fitting space is now more than sufficient to utilize all the slots.

    Damage output is completely fine for a fleet frigate.

    It doesn't need T2 lasers to work, doesn't even need lasers to work.

    Personally I think the 5 low idea was the absolute right way to go.

    Some very interesting fits are going to get made.


    interesting but ultimately still complete turd ... altho there's a certain pilot who faction fits/links a punisher as bait and it might be vaguely interesting to see if the cost of his fit increases significantly *shrug*
    Aiyshimin
    Shiva Furnace
    #193 - 2015-10-18 07:40:01 UTC
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Nafensoriel wrote:
    Yli Canis wrote:
    The Gila nerf is absolutely brutal to Jspace denizens soling C3s.

    Max passive regen I can eft is 663, with all Vs, faction extenders and A-type amplifiers. That's on a ship that will run you around 600 mil at jita and has 0 insurance (huge risk of losing all your investment). With t2 extenders (~120 mil cheaper) the max tank with all Vs is around 630.

    The lowest-dps C3 site has a 669 dps wave.


    So basically what this nerf really amounts to is a huge hit to the income of Wormhole corps who do not run escalations or carrier rat; The already-huge gap in income between the C5/6 krabs and the rest of Jspace will continue to widen. The rich get richer or remain equally rich, the poor just lost their main money-maker and it just got that much more difficult to get by.


    I'm sure there are many means of nerfing it for PvP without crushing its PvE utility, and honestly wonder if you guys have considered the massive impact this nerf will have to your wormhole dwellers. There has got to be a better way to go about this....Unless this is just a straight-on nerf to sub-C4 Jspace income? In which case I would emphatically ask *why*?


    Unfortunately to balance anything in eve against WH space would greatly imbalance things for everywhere else.
    So yes... the pirate cruiser with a battleship grade tank is losing its battleship grade tank in favor of a cruiser grade tank. Sucks for WH. Is balanced for literally everywhere else. Whrs need to just take one for the team and HTFU.


    One could do that, or one could reduce the damage another way without making it ineffective for the PVE he is describing.

    He is pointing out that there may be a way of reducing the damage another way than removing a low slot. Possibly by either removing a missile hardpoint/ High slot or If the team feels a low must go, compensate it by increasing the passive regen to replace a shield power relay, Which does not help PVP but helps keep PVE utility.

    There is PVE in other places than wormholes, HS , LS, Null basically absolutely everywhere, So are you saying ALL PVE players should Take one for the team because PVP players used it to excess?

    Hardly balanced that, is it?

    I use the Gila for PVP too, Great ship, Still good for PVP, we will cope. Absolutely buggered for it's primary PVE role now as a passive regen ship though.

    CCP Fozzie has asked us to point out issues,and things are not finalised.

    Do people think he is superman, plus the wisdom and infallibility of the Pope?

    Of course he needs feedback from the people who use the ships, in the areas they use them. He is asking for our input.

    And like any reasonable person he will look and see where the unforeseen problems created by the proposal, can be mitigated, whilst still achieving the primary goal.

    We shouldn't get to worried at this point from a PVE point of view, regarding PVP, the effective damage reduction is in the right ballpark and honestly expected by most, CCP will just hopefully pick a different way of achieving the same goal, He has said he has an open mind.



    You stil havent explained what god given right you feel entitled to with your Gila? You are only clarifying to everyone how unbalanced the ship is, and that the removal of lowslot is absolutely justified.
    Shalashaska Adam
    Snakes and Lasers
    #194 - 2015-10-18 07:49:56 UTC
    Portmanteau wrote:

    interesting but ultimately still complete turd...


    Interesting and very powerful.

    It's already very potent in its niche role, and it will become even more so.
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #195 - 2015-10-18 08:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
    Aiyshimin wrote:
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Nafensoriel wrote:
    Yli Canis wrote:
    The Gila nerf is absolutely brutal to Jspace denizens soling C3s.

    Max passive regen I can eft is 663, with all Vs, faction extenders and A-type amplifiers. That's on a ship that will run you around 600 mil at jita and has 0 insurance (huge risk of losing all your investment). With t2 extenders (~120 mil cheaper) the max tank with all Vs is around 630.

    The lowest-dps C3 site has a 669 dps wave.


    So basically what this nerf really amounts to is a huge hit to the income of Wormhole corps who do not run escalations or carrier rat; The already-huge gap in income between the C5/6 krabs and the rest of Jspace will continue to widen. The rich get richer or remain equally rich, the poor just lost their main money-maker and it just got that much more difficult to get by.


    I'm sure there are many means of nerfing it for PvP without crushing its PvE utility, and honestly wonder if you guys have considered the massive impact this nerf will have to your wormhole dwellers. There has got to be a better way to go about this....Unless this is just a straight-on nerf to sub-C4 Jspace income? In which case I would emphatically ask *why*?


    Unfortunately to balance anything in eve against WH space would greatly imbalance things for everywhere else.
    So yes... the pirate cruiser with a battleship grade tank is losing its battleship grade tank in favor of a cruiser grade tank. Sucks for WH. Is balanced for literally everywhere else. Whrs need to just take one for the team and HTFU.


    One could do that, or one could reduce the damage another way without making it ineffective for the PVE he is describing.

    He is pointing out that there may be a way of reducing the damage another way than removing a low slot. Possibly by either removing a missile hardpoint/ High slot or If the team feels a low must go, compensate it by increasing the passive regen to replace a shield power relay, Which does not help PVP but helps keep PVE utility.

    There is PVE in other places than wormholes, HS , LS, Null basically absolutely everywhere, So are you saying ALL PVE players should Take one for the team because PVP players used it to excess?

    Hardly balanced that, is it?

    I use the Gila for PVP too, Great ship, Still good for PVP, we will cope. Absolutely buggered for it's primary PVE role now as a passive regen ship though.

    CCP Fozzie has asked us to point out issues,and things are not finalised.

    Do people think he is superman, plus the wisdom and infallibility of the Pope?

    Of course he needs feedback from the people who use the ships, in the areas they use them. He is asking for our input.

    And like any reasonable person he will look and see where the unforeseen problems created by the proposal, can be mitigated, whilst still achieving the primary goal.

    We shouldn't get to worried at this point from a PVE point of view, regarding PVP, the effective damage reduction is in the right ballpark and honestly expected by most, CCP will just hopefully pick a different way of achieving the same goal, He has said he has an open mind.



    You stil havent explained what god given right you feel entitled to with your Gila? You are only clarifying to everyone how unbalanced the ship is, and that the removal of lowslot is absolutely justified.


    Your dog barks too often.
    I immediately demand you remove it's head.

    Or possibly a better alternative might be in order?
    You know, like a humane solution?
    There is more than one way to deal with a problem, but the removal of it's head is absolutely justified, quite right, you fixed the world.
    But with that attitude it is not a world any sane person would choose to live in.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Portmanteau
    Iron Krosz
    #196 - 2015-10-18 08:22:49 UTC
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Aiyshimin wrote:
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    Nafensoriel wrote:
    Yli Canis wrote:
    The Gila nerf is absolutely brutal to Jspace denizens soling C3s.

    Max passive regen I can eft is 663, with all Vs, faction extenders and A-type amplifiers. That's on a ship that will run you around 600 mil at jita and has 0 insurance (huge risk of losing all your investment). With t2 extenders (~120 mil cheaper) the max tank with all Vs is around 630.

    The lowest-dps C3 site has a 669 dps wave.


    So basically what this nerf really amounts to is a huge hit to the income of Wormhole corps who do not run escalations or carrier rat; The already-huge gap in income between the C5/6 krabs and the rest of Jspace will continue to widen. The rich get richer or remain equally rich, the poor just lost their main money-maker and it just got that much more difficult to get by.


    I'm sure there are many means of nerfing it for PvP without crushing its PvE utility, and honestly wonder if you guys have considered the massive impact this nerf will have to your wormhole dwellers. There has got to be a better way to go about this....Unless this is just a straight-on nerf to sub-C4 Jspace income? In which case I would emphatically ask *why*?


    Unfortunately to balance anything in eve against WH space would greatly imbalance things for everywhere else.
    So yes... the pirate cruiser with a battleship grade tank is losing its battleship grade tank in favor of a cruiser grade tank. Sucks for WH. Is balanced for literally everywhere else. Whrs need to just take one for the team and HTFU.


    One could do that, or one could reduce the damage another way without making it ineffective for the PVE he is describing.

    He is pointing out that there may be a way of reducing the damage another way than removing a low slot. Possibly by either removing a missile hardpoint/ High slot or If the team feels a low must go, compensate it by increasing the passive regen to replace a shield power relay, Which does not help PVP but helps keep PVE utility.

    There is PVE in other places than wormholes, HS , LS, Null basically absolutely everywhere, So are you saying ALL PVE players should Take one for the team because PVP players used it to excess?

    Hardly balanced that, is it?

    I use the Gila for PVP too, Great ship, Still good for PVP, we will cope. Absolutely buggered for it's primary PVE role now as a passive regen ship though.

    CCP Fozzie has asked us to point out issues,and things are not finalised.

    Do people think he is superman, plus the wisdom and infallibility of the Pope?

    Of course he needs feedback from the people who use the ships, in the areas they use them. He is asking for our input.

    And like any reasonable person he will look and see where the unforeseen problems created by the proposal, can be mitigated, whilst still achieving the primary goal.

    We shouldn't get to worried at this point from a PVE point of view, regarding PVP, the effective damage reduction is in the right ballpark and honestly expected by most, CCP will just hopefully pick a different way of achieving the same goal, He has said he has an open mind.



    You stil havent explained what god given right you feel entitled to with your Gila? You are only clarifying to everyone how unbalanced the ship is, and that the removal of lowslot is absolutely justified.


    Your dog barks too loud.
    I immediately demand you remove it's head.

    Or possibly an alternative might be in order?


    Sorry, Was that also talking bo**ocks? My bad......


    poor analogy, we're talking about a single low slot here
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #197 - 2015-10-18 08:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
    [/quote]
    poor analogy, we're talking about a single low slot here
    [/quote]

    For wormhole PVE, a Gila losing critical defence, is quite an extreme solution to balancing the Ship for PVP. When you have no capacitor left, and the sleepers self rep almost as fast as you can kill them with one drone damage amplifier fitted, then tanking them long enough to take damage off the field is somewhat of a requirement. With no DDA one chips away almost for ever, even with perfect skills. While the sleepers try to eat your drones too. Keeping that DDA fitted, means one less shield power relay or DC, one gets chewed up before one can remove enough damage from the field. As only a passive tank survives the neut pressure then there is a Bit of an issue there.

    This of course is being run in possibly the most PVP hostile area in EVE. Having a tiny bit of shield left is quite useful in terms of survival. But I don't really need to explain that do I?

    Taking A low slot off is like beheading the dog. It solves a problem, but creates a bigger one. Surely considering alternative solutions would be the intelligent path to follow? There are alternatives available that will reduce the damage applied In PVP whilst having a lesser effect for PVE. They are discussed in this thread,

    Of Course people have no right to live in wormholes, they have no right to an income to earn enough to replace lost ships, they can always live somewhere else, Fly another ship, do something else, no one is entitled to anything.Roll

    Of course People undertake PVE all through EVE, in all areas of space, they are all going to have similar issues. So it is worth discussing in the feedback thread, and bringing attention to where the proposal will have unintended consequences.

    Personally, I thought the post I answered, had a valid point, and I was supporting it, then someone let their attack dog off the lead.
    The dog comment was aimed squarely at "her" and since clarified so as not to feed the troll.

    PS the majority of my use of a Gila is for PVP, but I understand the poster lamenting the loss of it for PVE, maybe people should try to empathise with others rather than branding them as entitled, for daring to have a different need for them.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Shilalasar
    Dead Sky Inc.
    #198 - 2015-10-18 09:10:17 UTC
    Overall I like most of the directions I see here, but some points remain.

    I really question the punisher. How many T1-frigfleets are out there, you still shoot their tackle and outrun them.
    While we are still lacking a T1 armor rocketship. Though without bonused weapons you might as well fit them on a punisher.
    It looks like FW-farmers favorite ship now, more room for WCSs.

    Could you please, for the love of god, give warpcorestabs a real drawback, like 0% resists? Combined with mobile traktors, epithrals and DSTs and esp. mobile depots solo hunting is in a bad spot. At least do what a buddy suggested and make them turn the ship pink
    And not make a new ship designed to hunt FW-farmers in T1 frigs.


    Yli Canis wrote:
    The Gila nerf is absolutely brutal to Jspace denizens soling C3s.

    Max passive regen I can eft is 663, with all Vs, faction extenders and A-type amplifiers. That's on a ship that will run you around 600 mil at jita and has 0 insurance (huge risk of losing all your investment). With t2 extenders (~120 mil cheaper) the max tank with all Vs is around 630.

    The lowest-dps C3 site has a 669 dps wave.


    So basically what this nerf really amounts to is a huge hit to the income of Wormhole corps who do not run escalations or carrier rat; The already-huge gap in income between the C5/6 krabs and the rest of Jspace will continue to widen. The rich get richer or remain equally rich, the poor just lost their main money-maker and it just got that much more difficult to get by.


    I'm sure there are many means of nerfing it for PvP without crushing its PvE utility, and honestly wonder if you guys have considered the massive impact this nerf will have to your wormhole dwellers. There has got to be a better way to go about this....Unless this is just a straight-on nerf to sub-C4 Jspace income? In which case I would emphatically ask *why*?



    a) Funny how people everywhere are running C3 sites with way less than 650 dps tank.
    b) You see a T1 cruiser with 650 passive tank and still good dps and think it is ok?
    c) A t3 is faster to skill into than a lvl5 gila and can run C3 sites without a problem.

    While your point of non C5/6 income being bad is valid the arguement you are making is not.
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #199 - 2015-10-18 09:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
    Your dreams are answered Maulus navy issue.

    I like the Gila, It is a really interesting ship to hunt, it is never an easy "gank" it is a challange that bites back If one is not very careful.
    I will regret seeing them leave.

    Occassionally I run C3's in a Gila, when things are quiet, but I Prefer the hunt.

    So lets discuss this.
    This is for a maxed skilled character in Gallente and Caldari cruiser. It is a practical fit that is able to break the remote repping of the sleepers, and not push shield continuously into the point where the shield is breaking. One expects company at any moment and flies accordingly.

    The fit below, is showing 2 DDA, this is for mid wave, when some damage has been taken off the field, mobile depot launched to refit from, it shows 460 DPS sustained tank. It also works in this form in small fleets without requiring refit. Please note meta 4 SPR are disappearing next rebalance and recharge will be less from their replacements, tech 2 will not fit.
    Also note this is not an AFK type fit, it needs constant and active play or bad things happen ™
    Watch out for the wormhole effects, failing to take account of negative effects WILL kill you in this ship, it does not have a great deal of leeway to survive mistakes.

    [Gila]
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
    Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
    Drone Damage Amplifier II

    Large Shield Extender II
    Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
    Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II

    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
    Drone Link Augmentor I

    Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
    Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
    Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

    Hammerhead II x10


    Now take a low off Drops to a 350 sustained tank.
    Not so practical any more.

    And Yes, one can always bring tengu, but remember someone always brings proteus. There has to be a sensible return against ship loss, and in wormholes, one always loses ships.

    The Gila was a refreshing change to T3 online, that had become the prevailing choice, I hope we do not lose the Gila from WH space as an effective option. I really look forward to the day when we can have more practical ships other than T3 in wormhole space, not less.
    There are a few ways the Gila can remain useful when passive recharge tanked for PVE whilst still dialing back it's power in PVP.

    My Personal choice that someone else suggested, would be to stick with the proposal but add the equivalent of a shield power relay to the shield recharge rate. But other potential choices are also good.

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    gascanu
    Bearing Srl.
    #200 - 2015-10-18 10:31:01 UTC
    Shilalasar wrote:


    Yli Canis wrote:
    The Gila nerf is absolutely brutal to Jspace denizens soling C3s.

    Max passive regen I can eft is 663, with all Vs, faction extenders and A-type amplifiers. That's on a ship that will run you around 600 mil at jita and has 0 insurance (huge risk of losing all your investment). With t2 extenders (~120 mil cheaper) the max tank with all Vs is around 630.

    The lowest-dps C3 site has a 669 dps wave.


    So basically what this nerf really amounts to is a huge hit to the income of Wormhole corps who do not run escalations or carrier rat; The already-huge gap in income between the C5/6 krabs and the rest of Jspace will continue to widen. The rich get richer or remain equally rich, the poor just lost their main money-maker and it just got that much more difficult to get by.


    I'm sure there are many means of nerfing it for PvP without crushing its PvE utility, and honestly wonder if you guys have considered the massive impact this nerf will have to your wormhole dwellers. There has got to be a better way to go about this....Unless this is just a straight-on nerf to sub-C4 Jspace income? In which case I would emphatically ask *why*?



    a) Funny how people everywhere are running C3 sites with way less than 650 dps tank.
    b) You see a T1 cruiser with 650 passive tank and still good dps and think it is ok?
    c) A t3 is faster to skill into than a lvl5 gila and can run C3 sites without a problem.

    While your point of non C5/6 income being bad is valid the arguement you are making is not.


    it's funny how ppl react when CCP is nefing "other ppl ships", but when the wheel turn...it's not so funny anymore
    the fact is that gila and worm are not receving a small nerf -tone them down a bit- they get a nerfing sledgehammer;
    -20 CPU AND - 1 LOW SLOT? when was the last time you saw such a powerful nerf? even the ishtar, the mighty ishtar got a better deal, with losing some powergrid and a moved slot;

    while i agree that worm/gila are powerful ships, this lvl of nerfing is way to excessive, a very brutal and poor change. also it opens a can of worms, if removing of a slot become a way of balancing, who will be the next "rebalanced" ship?
    while worm and gila get a sledgehammer, the orthus remain almost unchanged: Roll