EVE Information Portal

Something WAAAAAY more drastic that fundamentally changes how this game is played or its business model needs to be done to get the EVE population to healthy numbers. Right now most space is empty. Dead. If this very minor proposal causes such a hysteric reaction from people, I can easily imagine a situation where change averse players holding back the evolution of the game end up killing it

This won't happen now anyway. Not after this response, regardless of whether it is a stroke of genius or an idea scraped from the bottom of the lolwut bin. One only has to search for "SOE SWG Combat Upgrade" to find the last time I saw such a visceral reaction from the player base. If CCP want to learn from others mistakes then so be it. If they want to force this on regardless then so be it. I don't care one way or the other but apparently a lot of people do.

not averse to change. i dont think that some one who has 1000$ more to spend than i do should be allowed more character development than me.

The nominal value of the SP is still trained by the seller. But I do agree, that with the SP being unallocated, that means you can transfer SP to other skills then originally trained. But time is not lost, since time is still used on training on the seller.

In your above example, it is true that 30m SP will just be injected on your character. But these 30M SP have been trained on another character and effectively transferred to your character, since they are lost on the other character. If they remained on the seller, then yes, you would be right in the fact that time has been lost.

Agree, I just hope CCP develops something more exciting than this crap SP-for-AUR idea. I'll certainly concede they have a tough job.

Also, that's a pretty good avatar you have.

The meltdowns are fine. Let it all out. It's like a grieving process. First the ranting, then the resignation, then sulking, then crying. Or all of those at the same time. It's entertaining at least. And for a change there's no overt attempt to crucify the dev who wrote the blog, which is refreshing. Maybe that #firefozzie campaign will have some lasting positive effects given people are aware if they try it they'll get wolloped by other players.

This topic highlights a very real and entrenched line of thinking within the playerbase and how they respond to calls for radical change. Actually, the vets can handle just about any change - they already have, repeatedly. There are legitimate concerns about changes that might fundamentally 'break' the core design principles. But there is also xenophobia within the community and EvE players don't want to be overrun by PTW types who might damage the tone of the game. That's fair enough, but frankly, if we can convert Goons 'the last boss of the internet' and Test 'self proclaimed reddit autists' into EvE players I'm pretty sure we can deal with just about anyone. They'll have to beaten, obviously. For immersion.

Instead of pursuading people on the fence (or those with an opposing view) to adopt the same stance, those arguing against this most forcefully are actually campaigning for the change in some ways. You can't impose an attitude change upon another person by making patronising remarks, contradicting them, or being personally abusive. And it won't work on CCP either. Some of us are just naturally more optimistic and open to the idea of radical change than others. Doesn't mean we're stupid or need to be lectured. Especially not by people who engage in aggressive debate and either have no idea how offensive it is as a means to make a point, or just don't care. We can factionalise ourselves into respective camps: those who throw a tantrum, and those who try not to. At that point it should become obvious one side has a massive advantage.

The people who are amenable to this idea are visibly calmer and more considered in their responses. There's also more willingness to negotiate. However, this one needs to be sold, not argued. I spoke to a few people ingame yesterday to get a feel for it and their initial reaction was largely negative, moving from extreme annoyance to resignation. Then pouting. I did my best not to point out the hilarious aspects, but since I find everything funny, ended up having to log rather than tease someone cruelly for fun. When you get them to systematically list their objections and examine their personal motivations, it stops. Quite dramatically. Mainly because every one of them has a strong counterargument, and they're smart enough to notice it right at the point they start elaborating. There's a lot of thinking going on at the moment, and it's probably worth letting that play out for as long as possible. Needs a few days for the ranters to calm down and be a bit embarassed over it, which seems to be in motion. It's not unreasonable to express annoyance.

Forcing a paradigm shift is probably one of the most difficult endeavors in any setting - but we actually have stacks of handy ingame precedents to refer to. The Phoebe power projection changes being the most obvious. I saw someone on reddit make a list of all of the most significant design changes and how they were all touted as EvE killers but we could just as easily produce a list of fundamentally broken mechanics that were altered with massive improvements to gameplay as a result. Depends which you categorise retention as, but it's so disgustingly low it's evidence in itself.

You have to ask, why the hell are people so resistant to a change that would spectacularly improve retention when the PCU is visibly in decline? And since when did skillpoints become the holy grail? SP does not make you a 'winner' - it's a passive training system that increases your efficiency ingame. Doesn't make you rich, a celebrity, an FC, a pro pvper or a leader. It facilitates gameplay. At the higher end of the scale it's a vanity thing - and it's not as though the highest SP alts ingame aren't already being traded for this reason.

It's blatantly obvious there are already people coming into game who buy characters and spend thousands on plex, accounts, pimpmobiles etc. So what? They still die the same as anyone else. They have no means to purchase or influence game development in their favour. You can't even 'win' EvE Online in the first place. SP is just a marker for how long you've been playing. I sometimes wonder if people regard their SP pool as some sort of measure of how valuable they are to CCP and the wider community. No offence, but some of the bittervets are whiny neckbeards who add nothing to anyone. If they annoy the community there's a chance they irritate CCP at times. That association between longevity ingame and entitlement is also a form of PTW.

People have either genuinely forgotten just how bad the first year of play is, or they're deluded. Or they see it as some sort of rite of passage that everyone must suffer, because they had to. Or they think this new brand of player will come in and demand the game is nerfed into the ground once they realise their attempt to buy uberness fails.

There are compromises to this proposal as well. If need be limits could be placed upon the amount of SP a character is able to extract or inject per year. It could be hard capped at no more than 20m. But I don't see why that should be imposed other than pettiness.

I dont want to see it go the way of slowly bleeding subscriptions as cool stuff arrives too little too late, which is what has been going on basically since I started playing. The only difference between paying for sp and paying for a subscription or plexing an account is the time factor and I dont see any benefit to maintaining the time barrier, eliminating it gets more people in space flying more ships faster. If the problem is creating a more dynamic sp market so that people constantly buy sp to make up for subscription money then simply add more sp sinks. Im not advocating for this, just trying to think of possibilities beyond having everything stay the same with ever increasing PLEX prices and decreasing player numbers

And you are totally right. If two toons having the same ships, with the exact same fits and piloted the exact same way. The one with the most SP relevant for that particular ship will win.

However, losing or winning a battle in EvE rarely comes down to not having that lvl 5 skill. More often, it relies on superior piloting or a better fit. Given my own experience with PvP and the deeds of some other pilots (like Suitonia and his low SP PvP videos), is the reason I don't deem this change game breaking, since I don't find SP that important when deciding power in EvE.

But at least we agree that CCP needs to do something in order to become viable in today's MMO market. While it is maybe not the ideal proposition. Hopefully, constructive feedback (opposed to knee-jerk whining) will actually result in something positive in the end. I am just happy, that CCP acknowledges something drastic needs to happen.

You can already buy deadspace modules and Titans for IRL money. Buy plex convert to ISK.