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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Stragak
#1161 - 2015-10-16 00:35:24 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Maraner wrote:
What the ever **** **** is this ****.

Did someone just take a big dump of **** to the brain. Maybe they should extract their own packet and flush it now before the rage monster takes full flight.

This is flat out pay to win.

NO NO NO NO

there... opinion given.
So having more SP is winning? Also how did the Bazaar not violate this?

Because the character was always paid for it also stemmed the tide of ebay. CCP is fine with it as long as they get a chunk of the pie. Same thing about Plex as well it stemmed the tide of RMT and gave 'options' to players with CCP taking a about a $5 cut of the pie.

"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches". In good humor, and slight annoyance, Boiglio   https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82
Emileon
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1162 - 2015-10-16 00:36:23 UTC
Querns wrote:
Emileon wrote:
Wow..Just wow,

As a player since '09, I've seen this game go through many changes and this by far would be one of the worst if not the worst that CCP has ever come up with!!

Does anyone remember "Greed is good" and the burn jita event it spawned? At the time EVE was a really healthy game and even though it lost some players it was able to rebound. This is not the case this time around, EVE cannot afford that type of mistake again, but yet it seems like you guys are trying it anyway.

If this goes through the development stage into the game, it will kill the game once and for all.

CCP, EVE is already hurting and player retention is not that great, so what do you do? Go ahead and come up with a horrible idea and the screw over the players still keeping EVE going!

This will in effect take yrs off of people's playing efforts and since SP is an integral part of the game, it will push older players out of the game in record numbers.

If you really don't want EVE around anymore, just turn it off, don't make it go through a Hollywood death scene first!



What's horrible about being able to sell some of your SP or buy some of someone else's?


I also have sp that I really don't use or need anymore but it was paid for and trained by either plex or cash and took years to accumulate. This is nothing more than a basic pay to play with cash going to CCP for the privilege. This will fundamentally change the game to the point where its a point and shoot game with no background or history.
atif09
Ltd Angel
#1163 - 2015-10-16 00:36:24 UTC
Really rubbing me the wrong way ccp

hope this is a joke
Shadowfoot
Doomheim
#1164 - 2015-10-16 00:37:06 UTC
Best news I have read so far. Can finetune my character.

My wallet is ready.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1165 - 2015-10-16 00:37:22 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I'm joining in the chorus of No's on this.
I think it needs to be said loud and clear that this is a bad plan
It is a massive step towards a P2W environment, and is totally a pay for free SP gimmick.

The character bazaar required the character actually to be around the correct amount of time.
This allows you to make a 1 day old character to 50 million SP.
It also allows you to 'recycle' ganking characters by stripping the relevant SP off them, then you just let the -10 alt languish and let the account lapse while moving all that SP onto a brand new character who isn't -10.

The abuses of this to get around existing rules are myriad, the benefits basically none.
Do NOT do this.
This idea requires characters to be around the correct amount of time to generate SP, just the necessarily the character the SP ends up in use on. Someone has to generate the 61.5 mill SP it takes to make the packets needed to create a 50mill SP 1 day old character.

And as far as recycling alt SP, that's a ~2.5 month unrecoverable training for each cycled character as the minimum to use the extractor is 5mill SP.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#1166 - 2015-10-16 00:37:54 UTC
Querns wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Those characters represent people. Eve wondered why none of them was sold? Because they are not commodities. People bond with their characters, with time and efforts which they had put in them and what those characters present.

But that even was not the main point of my post, that was just a simple example of chars not being commodities. The point is that this will have no real benefit for new players and plenty of side effects and. And that it is potentially great threat to EVE.

And if that`s all you had to say on my post then I congratulate you for 50 pages of trolling. Since you obviously have no intention to work/discuss on actual improvement of the game I suppose you are just trolling or you are working in the opposite direction of my intentions (improving the game), for any reason there might be.

Since most of other comments who are supporting this idea are alts, I am glad that community has strong vote for NO. Though I hope even more people states that this idea is ********, so CCP does a "reality check" and see in how wrong direction they are going and that they have to change their mindset and vision to actually improve the game for the sake of the game and players.

The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.

I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.


Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people.

Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1167 - 2015-10-16 00:38:51 UTC
Stragak wrote:
Because the character was always paid for it also stemmed the tide of ebay. CCP is fine with it as long as they get a chunk of the pie. Same thing about Plex as well it stemmed the tide of RMT and gave 'options' to players with CCP taking a about a $5 cut of the pie.
And the character originating the SP still needs to be paid for, as does the means of extracting the SP. So what's the issue?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1168 - 2015-10-16 00:39:27 UTC
Emileon wrote:
Querns wrote:

What's horrible about being able to sell some of your SP or buy some of someone else's?


I also have sp that I really don't use or need anymore but it was paid for and trained by either plex or cash and took years to accumulate. This is nothing more than a basic pay to play with cash going to CCP for the privilege. This will fundamentally change the game to the point where its a point and shoot game with no background or history.

If it was going to do that, it would have happened a long time ago care of the Character Bazaar.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1169 - 2015-10-16 00:39:58 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
After that turbo start he realizes the game is quite slow unless he wants to keep spending more and more money to speed it until he gets comfortable with sp. Pity that in the most cases he will not have any idea what he needs/wants. Because that is what you learn while your skills are training.

...

There is definitely need to find a way to attract and keep new players, but this is not the proper one.
Maybe they could start with doing something about the fact it apparently takes several months to even figure out what you want to put your skills into?
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#1170 - 2015-10-16 00:39:59 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I have 123 million SP currently. That means if I buy a 500,000 SP packet I get just 50,000 SP to allocate. It is generally a horrible deal unless I become grotesquely rich in game.

It is not the high SP characters that anyone with sense is really worried about. It is the day old newbies and alts that can effectively level up instantly to 50mil SP+.

Blizzard allowed characters to instantly level in WOW and we can all see how that turned out.


Yea but that game inherently sucks.

EvE is a great game not because of the way you acquire skill points, but because of the cut-throat nature of the game and the really intricate interactions you can have with others playing the game.

My being able to buy skill points to now fly a caldari battleship appropriately isn't going to detract from the nature of the game. If anything, it reinforces it by allowing me to fly a more expensive ship instead of having to wait 4 more months for all those skills to finally level where I can feel confident enough in my fitting ability to actually fly it, getting that ship into existence and available for you and your friends to try to blow up.


Cut throat nature of the game but lets make it easy? Isn`t that a bit of a contradiction?

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#1171 - 2015-10-16 00:40:51 UTC
You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1172 - 2015-10-16 00:40:54 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:

The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.

I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.


Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people.

Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then.

The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing.

The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Jitarunner Transport
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1173 - 2015-10-16 00:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jitarunner Transport
pay MONEY for get stronger fast! no MONEY? go **** yourself!

what a brilliant idea to make users open their wallet Shocked
Vlade Randal
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#1174 - 2015-10-16 00:41:20 UTC
-10

This is a terrible idea
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1175 - 2015-10-16 00:42:02 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless.

What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1176 - 2015-10-16 00:44:17 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I have 123 million SP currently. That means if I buy a 500,000 SP packet I get just 50,000 SP to allocate. It is generally a horrible deal unless I become grotesquely rich in game.

It is not the high SP characters that anyone with sense is really worried about. It is the day old newbies and alts that can effectively level up instantly to 50mil SP+.

Blizzard allowed characters to instantly level in WOW and we can all see how that turned out.


You should go back and re-read the post I was responding too, it mentioned older players.

And getting a 50 million SP character will cost ALOT using this method. You'd need 14 PLEX (at the current price). You'd probably get a much better deal at the character bazaar--i.e. a 54 million SP character which has been with use for years.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#1177 - 2015-10-16 00:45:04 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
After that turbo start he realizes the game is quite slow unless he wants to keep spending more and more money to speed it until he gets comfortable with sp. Pity that in the most cases he will not have any idea what he needs/wants. Because that is what you learn while your skills are training.

...

There is definitely need to find a way to attract and keep new players, but this is not the proper one.
Maybe they could start with doing something about the fact it apparently takes several months to even figure out what you want to put your skills into?


Then it would not be EVE, so there are plenty others game to try out for that.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Stragak
#1178 - 2015-10-16 00:46:08 UTC
At this point WTF is the point of even going to EVE Vegas? Really?

It is really just a meeting about how you guys 'were' going to un- **** eve.

Then you deliver this bomb shell.

For constructive feedback see first post 1127ish range... that number being said piece.

"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches". In good humor, and slight annoyance, Boiglio   https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#1179 - 2015-10-16 00:46:55 UTC
Querns wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:

The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.

I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.


Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people.

Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then.

The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing.

The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players.


Please read the post where i summed it up. Diminishing return mechanic does support low sp players more than high sp. But low sp players cannot afford it without spending a lot of rl cash. So it is fail.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Sella Lesbon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1180 - 2015-10-16 00:47:24 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sella Lesbon wrote:
Good. I like it.
Don't listen to these oldies that keep blocking this game from evolving.


Oi! Try to remember these "oldies" are the ones who kept EVE going from it's release to now. Don't be disrespectful of them or that fact.


didn't mean to be disrespectful. I think its a good idea as it doesn't create something out of thin air

> Never do something to someone that you wouldn't like to be done to yourself.