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All new characters will now start with ~400,000 skillpoints
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#161 - 2015-09-30 18:03:57 UTC
NecIony wrote:
It gives a bad taste, when someone recently started to play this game and do not have all this SP and skill books...


What "all"? It's a few weeks training in a game where some of the skills can take > 30 days to go from 4 to 5. Don't most of those skillbooks get handed out as rewards from the career agents? If not, most are pretty cheap even for newbies.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#162 - 2015-09-30 20:41:27 UTC
NecIony wrote:
It gives a bad taste, when someone recently started to play this game and do not have all this SP and skill books...


If you started playing before the 2 week deadline the get SP handed to you, you have more SP than a new character anyway.
Dextrome Thorphan
#163 - 2015-10-01 09:35:56 UTC
Lance Jamtonio wrote:
I think 1m-1.5m would be better for them this will allow them to get some basic skills and jump into whatever field they are looking to pursue.... as really the only other starter activity atm is mining... sure you can do PVE but with the skills on week 1 you will still potentially struggle giving them abit more will be good move overall and allow people to get into the game faster.


I disagree, mining is not the only option. You can perfectly run L1 missions on week 1. You could also do distribution missions, or start on highsec PI. And once you got your first 100mill you can start trading or whatever. Or they can just buy 1 plex and skip the isk grinding step.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#164 - 2015-10-01 11:54:51 UTC
I thought high sec awoxing was the problem. Turns out it was the sp all along, heh.
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2015-10-01 13:04:58 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
I thought high sec awoxing was the problem. Turns out it was the sp all along, heh.


And it would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky kids...
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#166 - 2015-10-01 14:44:46 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
I thought high sec awoxing was the problem. Turns out it was the sp all along, heh.


It was a problem yes, because instead of it being something incidental and practiced rarely some particularly bad players started using it as their go-to tool for making bank.

In the end it was bad PR for EVE and I'm surprised it took so many years for CCP to realise there might be a problem.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#167 - 2015-10-01 14:48:56 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
I thought high sec awoxing was the problem. Turns out it was the sp all along, heh.


It was a problem yes, because instead of it being something incidental and practiced rarely some particularly bad players started using it as their go-to tool for making bank.

In the end it was bad PR for EVE and I'm surprised it took so many years for CCP to realise there might be a problem.


Has the rate at which new players quit changed significantly since highsec was nerfed yet again, this time in the form of awox removal? Please include a credible source when you reply.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Ro Riro
DOBIS Galactic
#168 - 2015-10-01 14:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ro Riro
if their goal was to be fair, it would have made way more sense to give pilots a diminishing SP bonus based on their birth date from the cut-off. leaves every newb with a feeling of fairness. im completely new to this game and i was born about 36 hours before the cut-off. cant make 350k SP in a day and a half. what about the unfortunate schmuck born an hour before the cut-off? theyre just SOL.

sure its disappointing but im not really sweating it. i see it as a rite of passage, being born before the 15th.
Xarc Vahzl
State War Academy
Caldari State
#169 - 2015-10-01 18:13:57 UTC
First character I've made and I miss the cutoff by 2 days :(
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2015-10-01 21:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiply Rustic
Tippia wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Old vs new.

https://imgur.com/a/XQ23E#0


Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3m6re2/patch_notes_for_vanguard/cvch371

Not my work

I assume missles lacking are because amarr.

…so basically half of the first phase of my skill plan. I approve. P


Just finished Stage 3+ of v2.2 a while back on a new Minnie gunboat pilot, it's just the go-to "here's how to initially skill up while not thinking about what I might have missed" plan unless someone's got a specific low-SP template in mind. There should probably just be a "go here and look, ye newbros" link to it in the initial quests.

Having said that, nah, I don't think I agree with just handing it out. Newbros won't know what to do with it and will wind up horribly mis-applying it. Cool for alts, though.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2015-10-02 09:41:30 UTC
From the perspective of someone who started 1.5 months ago and has 2.5M SP, this change is rather annoying: I did work (skill books cost ISK) and certainly wait for much of what people now get for free, and the 350k extra is still significant compared to what I have now. Yes, I admit that's largely silly envy. But I still fail to see why CCP cannot hand out 350k unassigned SPs to everybody. If this matters little to veterans, then let it matter little to them. Having 350k SP to cut some of my current skill training would matter a lot to me, I can tell you that! I'm not sure that it is a brilliant tactic for CCP to annoy newish players with perceived unfairness just to make life easier for new players...

As far as the complete newbie experience goes, frankly I think this does little. I worked through the initial steps just fine with 50k SP. If you ask me what the big killer is for new players, then it is the lack of structured gameplay that hits you eventually.

Basically, as a newbie you do this:

1. Work through all the career agents, who tell you what to do next.
2. Work through all the opportunities, with Aurora telling you what to do next.
3. Do the SoE epic arc, with the SoE agent telling you what to do next.

And then it's the void: find your own path, good luck, fly safe.

Maybe you get lucky and join a good corp that provides structure for you. But finding a good corp is rocket science. It certainly is not something that the newbie experience eases you into. And what seems to be comprehensively lacking is casual teaming up among players, by virtue of which one gets to know each other and sees if one is compatible in goals and behaviour. From my MUD days I remember that as essential. You basically would hang out in whatever public space the MUD would offer, and team up with people for known targets. And if that worked out well, you would look out for the same people to team up again. And eventually that would build into serious associations. Whereas EVE - from my newbie perspective at least - seems to put the cart before the horse: join a corp of people you barely know, whose intentions and goals you barely understand, and hope for the best that it will work out with the people you find there.

Skills and tech aren't the newbie killer IMHO. Finding structure and a good "social environment" in game is the kicker.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#172 - 2015-10-02 11:06:59 UTC
Meh... 400k sp is old news. Only way for a noob to start now is to buy a skirmisher booster pack to blast away sansha pirate faction ships like candy (like in the new video for it). And if you disagree with that you're trolling hah
Was about to buy $50 in aur again, think I'll wait.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2015-10-02 12:27:08 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
If you ask me what the big killer is for new players, then it is the lack of structured gameplay that hits you eventually.

Skills and tech aren't the newbie killer IMHO. Finding structure and a good "social environment" in game is the kicker.

now you said you are under 2 months old ao i wont berate and skin you quite yet....

You do release Eve is a SANDBOX game type correct?
Go google that term if you dont know what it means.
This aint no theme park.

I am prob going to grief/gank you in game now to show you its a sandbox without structure.
Malrikk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2015-10-02 12:39:49 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
Ryu Chaos wrote:
imho, everyone under 10m SP or 1 year old (mains only) should get the free 400k sp so they dont feel cheated, or even better everyone Twisted


What reason is there that they shouldn't they give 350k SP to everyone? No matter how long you've been playing, at some point you paid a subscription and spent 1-2 weeks training the new skills.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#175 - 2015-10-02 12:56:50 UTC
Can this apply to old chars 4-5y old never used or skilled?

I have few with like 34000 SP could use dat boost to 900000 yo.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Memphis Baas
#176 - 2015-10-02 13:27:05 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
From the perspective of someone who started 1.5 months ago and has 2.5M SP, this change is rather annoying: I did work (skill books cost ISK) and certainly wait for much of what people now get for free, and the 350k extra is still significant compared to what I have now. Yes, I admit that's largely silly envy. But I still fail to see why CCP cannot hand out 350k unassigned SPs to everybody. If this matters little to veterans, then let it matter little to them. Having 350k SP to cut some of my current skill training would matter a lot to me, I can tell you that! I'm not sure that it is a brilliant tactic for CCP to annoy newish players with perceived unfairness just to make life easier for new players...


Newbies have started, over the years, with 900k pre-allocated skill points, then down to 50k and a bunch of skills, and now 400k and no more free skill books from the tutorials (because Opportunities). You want everyone to get 350k; would you be OK if CCP removes 350k of your skillpoints if they change their minds about the newbie experience yet again? How about if they remove the skillbooks that newbies are no longer getting for free, from your character?

A newbie who starts right now gets 350k more points than you had when you started. But if you both train skills and don't lapse your accounts, the newbie will never catch up to you. You will ALWAYS have more skillpoints. Is that fair? After a while it stops mattering, because any ship that you fly only uses about 20 million skillpoints (1 year training), the rest of the skills are for ships that you aren't flying and thus useless for the current situation, but still.
Tractus Vesica
Helghast Empire
#177 - 2015-10-02 13:43:44 UTC
I'm a fan of this, veteran players are so far along at this point it must look horribly daunting to come into the game as a new player now.

The more CCP can do to give new pilots options and a sense of value the better.

I can't imagine any player that values the longevity of this game taking issue with this.

Good job CCP! Big smile

Excelling in all things terrible.
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#178 - 2015-10-03 02:26:44 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Newbies have started, over the years, with 900k pre-allocated skill points, then down to 50k and a bunch of skills, and now 400k and no more free skill books from the tutorials (because Opportunities). You want everyone to get 350k; would you be OK if CCP removes 350k of your skillpoints if they change their minds about the newbie experience yet again? How about if they remove the skillbooks that newbies are no longer getting for free, from your character?

I'm not sure whether the 900k SP makes for a fair comparison, since I hear that in the past the skill system was quite a bit different. Whereas the people starting now are training exactly the same skills that I have trained. If people now do not get free skill books, then this reduces the advantage to only training time rather than training time and ISK. While I'm hardly swimming in ISK, I'm mostly envious about the training time anyhow. You can get ISK by playing a lot and/or well, or possibly by converting real money via PLEX. The best one can do about training time are implants, which have fairly marginal effects.

And yes, there is an asymmetry between upgrades and downgrades. Obviously people will not insist on getting downgraded just to achieve parity with new players. But I don't think that it is unreasonable to ask that everybody is given the same deal only in a "better" sense. We are buying a product here after all, why should we not expect that we always get sold something better, and not something worse? Perhaps more importantly, can you actually name a negative consequence of giving 350k SP to everybody? I will have to twiddle my thumbs a week or so less, until I get to fly the ship that I actually want to fly. Veterans supposedly will barely notice this. So where's the problem?

Memphis Baas wrote:
A newbie who starts right now gets 350k more points than you had when you started. But if you both train skills and don't lapse your accounts, the newbie will never catch up to you. You will ALWAYS have more skillpoints. Is that fair? After a while it stops mattering, because any ship that you fly only uses about 20 million skillpoints (1 year training), the rest of the skills are for ships that you aren't flying and thus useless for the current situation, but still.

Yes, of course me staying ahead is entirely fair. Basically, the time-locked skill system converts subscription time, and thus (real world) money paid, into gaming opportunities. If we both keep our subscriptions up, then I will always have paid more money for more subscription time, so why shouldn't I get more gaming opportunities? To require people to hang around for at least one year before they can play the game that they want to play is daring. But it's a game design choice, and CCP certainly can choose to cater to people with high delayed gratification thresholds. That said, I for one would be quite happy to see changes that would allow said newbie to pull ahead of me in skills by virtue of excelling in the game somehow (more than is possible via implants now). But that would just be my preference, and really is a different topic...
Max Jaeger
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2015-10-03 02:36:56 UTC
Really guys? I mean seriously? When did you all soften up like that? I can't decide if this thread is funny or sad. Grow a pair will you?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#180 - 2015-10-03 02:48:45 UTC
Max Jaeger wrote:
Grow a pair will you?


Here you go. I just hope they aren't too fuzzy for you!


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?