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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Vanguard] 350k added skillpoints for new characters!

First post
Author
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#41 - 2015-09-24 16:37:26 UTC
+1 to this. This sort of thing is exactly what I was hoping for. New players want to try things and see what they can do. With this, they can do a lot of things immediately--if badly, but that's OK. They can even overheat modules!

This should make the new player experience in EVE significantly less frustrating.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Darkblad
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-09-24 16:46:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Many of the skills are currently rewarded by the career agent's Missions. Will that change?

My guess would be yes, as this is in line with your initial plans for a move away from reward driven NPE.

NPEISDRIP

Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#43 - 2015-09-24 16:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How do you engage them in the community if they have to play the waiting game for a skill to train every time they want to try something new?

By reading, watching videos, reading some more and even more, chatting to ppl in channels and talking on comms. Lots of veteran players do play waiting game (for other reasons, like bad sov mechanics, nerfed titans etc), they dont log in EVE, they may even log in other games - but they keep connection with EVE.
Newbies will not have time to read about Band of Brothers, t20, have no time to watch RnK films, kil2 roams, they will not find a wonderful toy of EFT and photo of Chribba's tattoo. They will be busy grinding standing to get to lvl4's, to mine minerals for the drake - because that's what would be the obstacle to get to ~endgame~.
Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#44 - 2015-09-24 17:06:55 UTC
+1 it´s a great improvement for newbros, but i think it could be still a Little bit more.

For Amarr Players as Example:

in Spaceship command add also Amarr Destroyer, Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Battlecruiser and Amarr Battleship all at lvl 1 to it. You can´t train them higher until the previous skills are at least at lvl 3, but you would be able to use bigger ships. We all know how important frigates and destroyers can be, but newbros normally just want to fly Big Ships.
Angelic Tallbrooke
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#45 - 2015-09-24 17:15:50 UTC
It would actually be really nice for any existing players to have their skills bumped up to those "minimum" levels. As someone who's played for under 10 months, I may have missed vital skills off the bat. Gotta' get those awesome mining skills, you know? Seriously, though, a kickback for players who don't have those skills trained already would be really nice. It doesn't matter too much to those with over 50 mil skill points, but for those of us who're already skill-point-gimped from the attribute system/implant system (risk/reward tradeoffs of having fun versus getting skill points), it would be a godsend to throw either SP or those skills our way.

That, and I have an under-2-mil-sp alt that literally has none of the support skills trained, it's just a "move my stuff about for me" alt (but not even a hauler). Honestly, I'd be better off biomassing a month-plexed character and making a new one after this patch hits if that's a thing, just for ease of getting all the skills injected.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-09-24 17:25:30 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
instead of free sp for every one created up to the release why not just credit everyone these skills no matter there age if they don't already have them. This way there no free sp being given most won't even gain anything but it sets everyone on the same foot.


I agree with this, much better than unallocated SP.

Oh an I just realized. Welcome back to the forums CCP Rise we have missed you!

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Harkin Issier
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-09-24 17:31:47 UTC
CCP definitely boost everyone's skill levels up to the new set if they haven't already trained it.

Unallocated SP is too powerful, and giving our younger newbros a general skillset won't be too much of a buff to alts.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-09-24 17:35:48 UTC
This is seriously amazing, thank you so much. I can say I'll definitely be setting up my 3rd character slot after this.
Mstk Miura
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-09-24 17:38:59 UTC
My character is 3 weeks old now, does this mean that im no longer a new player?
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#50 - 2015-09-24 17:45:18 UTC
Angelic Tallbrooke wrote:
It would actually be really nice for any existing players to have their skills bumped up to those "minimum" levels. As someone who's played for under 10 months, I may have missed vital skills off the bat. Gotta' get those awesome mining skills, you know? Seriously, though, a kickback for players who don't have those skills trained already would be really nice. It doesn't matter too much to those with over 50 mil skill points, but for those of us who're already skill-point-gimped from the attribute system/implant system (risk/reward tradeoffs of having fun versus getting skill points), it would be a godsend to throw either SP or those skills our way.

That, and I have an under-2-mil-sp alt that literally has none of the support skills trained, it's just a "move my stuff about for me" alt (but not even a hauler). Honestly, I'd be better off biomassing a month-plexed character and making a new one after this patch hits if that's a thing, just for ease of getting all the skills injected.


+1 on giving those skills to all toons that don't already have them if it can be done.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#51 - 2015-09-24 17:49:09 UTC
Good change. Now just please remove attribute implants.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Nou Mene
Rattini Tribe
Wild Geese.
#52 - 2015-09-24 18:01:17 UTC
Great change!

Is it possible to tie some of this SP to tutorial missions? as a way to avoid older player abuse?
And maybe this could help giving even more SP to players really involved into tutorials.

Keep the good work.
Greetings
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-09-24 18:34:41 UTC
Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#54 - 2015-09-24 18:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
Not a bad change I guess. I mean, it does kind of suck for some of us vets who had to learn all of this stuff and plan accordingly - AFTER LEARNING SKILLS!

I mean, 300k exp is.....i think 2015 sp/hour is a good average (forgetting actual numbers) 350,000/2000 is like 175 hours, a week of training? Most of my skills are like week long or above to train so i am not missing anything really.

Some people say just give unallocated SP. New players don't know **** and that SP boost for an alt account is total BS.

I think taking it back even farther and make the bloodlines matter again would be cool too. Give bloodlines different starting skills - Indy focused, combat focused, trading focused.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2015-09-24 18:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Marox Calendale wrote:
+1 it´s a great improvement for newbros, but i think it could be still a Little bit more.

For Amarr Players as Example:

in Spaceship command add also Amarr Destroyer, Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Battlecruiser and Amarr Battleship all at lvl 1 to it. You can´t train them higher until the previous skills are at least at lvl 3, but you would be able to use bigger ships. We all know how important frigates and destroyers can be, but newbros normally just want to fly Big Ships.

That's not a good way of handling things. This not only sets an unnecessary precedent for skill training and skill injection incoherence (As if Command Ships without warfare skills trained wasn't nice enough already), it would also remove necessary money sinks from the game.

Frigs are more than enough for new players to toy around with and experience many activities of the game. What they want is not really of any concern as they cannot afford any of these ships or equip these ships to begin with. If they want to fly big toys, they train for them. Period.

Concerns about them not being able to engage with the community are also laughable. Training and waiting for something new to unlock are essential parts in virtually all the games on the market. Besides, the waiting time is the time for experienced players (EP) to shine and teach the new players something before they try it out in the wild. It is also the time where experienced players can take new players with them, for instance, in missions and make them deal with certain ships (frigs, for instance) while the EP takes care of the real deal (as it has been brought up in the NPEQandA thread by someone). I do not see any reason to shorten the waiting time for new players and old players alike. What needs to be changed is the things they can do during the waiting time, and for that both players and CCP need to find ways.
For example, make a tutorial mission or Opportunities task that sends them to low sec to reach a location or pick something up. Give them some hints (check dotlan for kills (not "check the map for kills". The map is most useless in that regard as it lacks the vital information dotlan provides), check for activity, check for alternative routes, etc.) and let them figure out things. They will die, they will get ridiculed, they will probably get scammed, however, they will experience what it is to actually PVP and through the hints what it takes, among other things, to prepare yourself and use the game to your advantage. I have described that in the NPEQandA thread as well.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Faby Rasputin
XoXCorp
#56 - 2015-09-24 19:47:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi!

This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k.

The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system.

IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLS

One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.

Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.

Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.




Can I ask why you don't simply apply those skills to ALL current characters, and then give everyone the difference in skills they already have as unallocated SP?
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#57 - 2015-09-24 19:52:44 UTC
Outstanding change, and most excellent choice of starting skills to add! I particularly like that you including Salvaging. My only suggestion would be Evasive Maneuvering at 3 Big smile

This change also makes it simpler for us to theorycraft Day 1 new player fits!

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2015-09-24 19:53:46 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.


Except the newbie are likely to have next to no idea what they want can could choose wrong. Choose exploration because it sounds cool and all. Tuns out it's not what the guy though and want something different? Oh well, go afk for some time while your basic skill requirement to do the next thing you want to try train. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what CCP want to avoid.
Malice Redeemer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2015-09-24 20:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Malice Redeemer
Faby Rasputin wrote:



Can I ask why you don't simply apply those skills to ALL current characters, and then give everyone the difference in skills they already have as unallocated SP?


That would make too much sense, and be far too fair. Plus it would require math.


Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.


Except the newbie are likely to have next to no idea what they want can could choose wrong. Choose exploration because it sounds cool and all. Tuns out it's not what the guy though and want something different? Oh well, go afk for some time while your basic skill requirement to do the next thing you want to try train. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what CCP want to avoid.


So, just give him combat skills, because you know, what sandbox?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-09-24 20:30:21 UTC
I agree with some of the others here and I think it would be better to, instead of handing the skill points out, give them as reward for completing parts of the tutorial--and not as free SP to allocate but simply bumping up skills that aren't already at that level yet.

One interesting thing could be region-based SP: you complete a certain combat tutorial mission while in Minmatar space and it bumps your gunnery skill to 4 and your small projectile turret skill to 3. You go complete the same mission in Amarr space and now it bumps your small energy turret skill to 3.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."