These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Vanguard] 350k added skillpoints for new characters!

First post
Author
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#61 - 2015-09-24 20:50:04 UTC
This is a good change.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#62 - 2015-09-24 21:00:19 UTC
Good job. Just thinking about the career missions that give you skill books. Do they tell you to inject? Might want to change them some time.

Also, these skills will be pointless on the market so will they be removed?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#63 - 2015-09-24 21:00:40 UTC
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, from some comments that CCP Rise made last(?) summer, that CCP wants to avoid touching the existing career agents as much as possible, because it's all archaic hand-built special-snowflake code that's a huge pain to update.

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I agree with some of the others here and I think it would be better to, instead of handing the skill points out, give them as reward for completing parts of the tutorial--and not as free SP to allocate but simply bumping up skills that aren't already at that level yet.


There are skills that require other skills, too. I was rudely reminded of this when I started an alt, got Drones, trained it to 1 so I could use the 1 drone her current ship supported, found out I needed Light Drone Operation, got that, and then found out that it required Drones III.

It's a small delay, a matter of hours, but in a way that just makes it more infuriating. It's why I'm glad they're including higher-tier skills like Salvaging and Thermodynamics.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-09-24 21:45:09 UTC
Hmmm, I always support making life easier for newbies, but the entire skill system is moving more and more towards the 'learning skill' debacle.

As in, all the support skills are something that everyone should train to 4 ASAP. That's something every newbie learns and hears from their corp overlords. So now a great number of support skills are pre-trained to 4 already, allowing newbies to skip that process, which is good because they can jump right into what they think is fun.

But I'm detecting a trend here over the years. Things are being identified as redundant or unwanted and subsequently being removed.

Learning skills got the boot because the lack of 'choice'. Medical clones got the boot because of the lack of 'choice'. The entire attribute system is up for removal because doing anything other than optimizing your attributes is stupid and this presents a lack of 'choice'.

Now newbies are getting extra SP to bridge this collection of 'lack of choice' skills, while it could be argued that the problem lies in these skills themselves.

Following the above trend I wouldn't be surprised if a great number of support skills, like CPU, PG and Cap skills are going to be completely phased out in due time. And I'm not sure yet if I think that's a good idea.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#65 - 2015-09-24 21:55:32 UTC
i really like the idea to help out new players, honestly i think this will go a long way but i want to raise the stakes a bit by giving them a one time reward on a finished career path lets say 150k unallocated SP

why? simpel because you give them a reason to do the tutorials and by the time they are done with that they get a reward (always nice) and have more knowledge of the game so they can spend the points wisely and how they see fit. ofcourse those points can only be rewarded once per character.

i dont see any reasons to exclude people from the one reward on career path so everybody should be able to do so. If CCP thinks otherwise i am fine with that too

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-09-24 22:07:23 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi!

This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k.

The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system.

IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLS

One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.

Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.

Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.



Nice move for newbros

But can you remove all those skills that are comon for every characters from the npc market ?

Free plug them to every existing characters and then remove them from NPC. It will lighten the market windows and loading time for everyone.

Thx


COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE

Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2015-09-24 22:28:25 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Learning skills got the boot because the lack of 'choice'. Medical clones got the boot because of the lack of 'choice'. The entire attribute system is up for removal because doing anything other than optimizing your attributes is stupid and this presents a lack of 'choice'.

Now newbies are getting extra SP to bridge this collection of 'lack of choice' skills, while it could be argued that the problem lies in these skills themselves.
Not exactly. The SP grant here is because the early hours of the game are going to involve a large portion of 'hunt the skillbook', along with 'I'd love to do that Mr/Mrs Career Agent, only I need to wait another 30 min for Industry I to finish'.

With luck though, your prediction that more and more skills will be removed will come true. Lol
FibreOptic
Doomheim
#68 - 2015-09-24 22:37:04 UTC
My character is 2 weeks old today and will be 2 weeks 4 days old on the day of the release.

I made the decision to buy a single PLEX in order to purchase an advanced cerebral accelerator and a standard cerebral accelerator.
Buying PLEX for ISK is not something I will do again as I do not think that Eve should be pay to win, however the boost to a new character is dramatic and I felt that it was worth the investment.

I'm a little disappointed to read that I am not eligible for the updated starting skill points as there are skills on this list that I am missing.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#69 - 2015-09-24 22:40:10 UTC
FibreOptic wrote:
My character is 2 weeks old today and will be 2 weeks 4 days old on the day of the release.

I made the decision to buy a single PLEX in order to purchase an advanced cerebral accelerator and a standard cerebral accelerator.
Buying PLEX for ISK is not something I will do again as I do not think that Eve should be pay to win, however the boost to a new character is dramatic and I felt that it was worth the investment.

I'm a little disappointed to read that I am not eligible for the updated starting skill points as there are skills on this list that I am missing.


i definitely think they should do something for the newer chars that missed out on this because they started before that. i think they MUST do this, not for me i passes the 100 mil SP so i am good :) but yeah i feel your post

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#70 - 2015-09-24 22:53:07 UTC
That will help new people get on their feet faster. Thanks!

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Aliventi
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#71 - 2015-09-24 23:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
CCP Rise wrote:
Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.

This looks really good. Thank you for taking the time to fix this issue.

The only issue I can see is that missiles get a small fraction of the SP that gunnery does. Gunnery gets many of the support skills trained to level one and sometimes level two. Missiles only get one skill to level one. This is especially annoying because missiles take far longer to train than turrets. Is this across the board, or is this because the character example is Amarr and doesn't really use missiles? Will Caldari characters get more missile SP than gunnery SP?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2015-09-24 23:06:51 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?

To what end do they not want them? I don't think we have any quantifiable harm. Not having the choice doesn't even satisfy any criteria of harm. Further, since starting skills have always been somewhat arbitrary how is this any different fundamentally for those that would have forgone some of the old starting skills?
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#73 - 2015-09-24 23:07:52 UTC
wouldnt it be more fair to just inject all the missing skills directly for everyone rather than give newly created characters free 350k sp? what about the newbie that is a month old instead of 2 weeks?

that way people dont get free 350k sp which is enough to get a free 24h old cyno toon and everyone will get the default skills now which means that some skillbooks could be removed from market ect.

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!

Edwin Wyatt
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2015-09-24 23:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Edwin Wyatt
Damn CCP fails again.

Why would I want my industrial character to have a bunch of wasted gunnery skills, and why would I want my combat pilot to have mining or production skills. Pull your head out of your butt CCP.

Why not provided ways for new players to earn these extra skillpoints by running the starter missions and allow them to decide what skills they do or do not want after they learn how to play the game and what the skills do. I don't know about you but after my first 30 days if I was given 350k of skillpoints to distribute how I want, I could have a lot of fun with very little wait.

So much for a Player driven world. Its only as player drive as CCP wants it to be.

While your at it, I want a way to redistribute my skillpoints, if you want to provide a quick way for players to try different things but at an isk cost why not. I could careless if someone wanted to drop mining 2 and drop the skillpoints into drones operations 5 for a cost.

Edwin
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2015-09-24 23:29:44 UTC
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
Damn CCP fails again.

Why would I want my industrial character to have a bunch of wasted gunnery skills, and why would I want my combat pilot to have mining or production skills. Pull your head out of your butt CCP.

Why not provided ways for new players to earn these extra skillpoints by running the starter missions and allow them to decide what skills they do or do not want after they learn how to play the game and what the skills do. I don't know about you but after my first 30 days if I was given 350k of skillpoints to distribute how I want, I could have a lot of fun with very little wait.

So much for a Player driven world. Its only as player drive as CCP wants it to be.

Edwin

Why does having skills you may not use but spent no time or effort on constitute an issue? The goal here is to give some basic capabilities, not have a free early specialty.

Also, how does having extra skills on your skill sheet restrict you as a player in any way? How does having more abilities than you might use cause your activities to be less player driven? You literally have more options as a player rather than restrictions due to skill limits.
Edwin Wyatt
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2015-09-24 23:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Edwin Wyatt
Simple, why does CCP choose which skills I want, we haven't had these starter skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills. It clearly shows CCP break from reality, they have good ideas but never propely implement them because whenever they run into road blocks or hurdles they simple ignore it and move on, which is why 90% of the changes in EVE are never complete.

Where is our 5th subsystem CCP?

I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2015-09-24 23:40:02 UTC
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
Simple, why does CCP choice which skills I want, we haven't had these skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills.

I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)

CCP doesn't chose the skills you want, only those you start with. You chose the skills you want by training them. The your hauler has gunnery skills doesn't in any way reduce the ability to haul, nor does it restrict the ability to improve you hauling through training.

Starting skills are there to provide a baseline capability, not provide free specialization. That's what skill training is for.
Edwin Wyatt
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-09-24 23:55:04 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
Simple, why does CCP choice which skills I want, we haven't had these skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills.

I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)

CCP doesn't chose the skills you want, only those you start with. You chose the skills you want by training them. The your hauler has gunnery skills doesn't in any way reduce the ability to haul, nor does it restrict the ability to improve you hauling through training.

Starting skills are there to provide a baseline capability, not provide free specialization. That's what skill training is for.



You simple do not get it, what is the objective of these starter skills?

To provide the player with a better starting experience... Okay lets give them a bunch of useless skills that don't benefit "THEIR" gameplay a bit. Or, we use the starter mission to explain how these skills work, and once they put in a little effort they're provided with some SP to distribute any way they want.

In a player drive world is all about choices, if you had watch "The Butterfly Effect" you would know this because CCP says it like 40 times.


When players have a bunch of other choices in games, they will join the thousands of other players who have already unsubded and player games that give me the choice.

Ed
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2015-09-25 00:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
You simple do not get it, what is the objective of these starter skills?

To provide the player with a better starting experience...
Correct up to here...

Edwin Wyatt wrote:
Okay lets give them a bunch of useless skills that don't benefit "THEIR" gameplay a bit. Or, we use the starter mission to explain how these skills work, and once they put in a little effort they're provided with some SP to distribute any way they want.
...but wrong here. The starting skills are, as stated prior, a baseline of capabilities, designed for all players and thus take into account each end. The weren't designed more for one player than another because at the point these skills are given a player is likely to lack certainty on their direction.

Further, your plea towards player choice is ironic because it obligates players to take the NPC driven NPE in order to receive their SP. That's not player freedom. A player shouldn't be obligated to do the starter missions more than is already suggested or risk missing out on a big part of their starting package. The player driven aspect starts at the first login, not after the tutorials are done.

Lastly, these skills, once more, are a baseline. They are the point where players should start. Not lower, and not higher in certain capacities either. That's what skill training is for.

Edwin Wyatt wrote:
In a player drive world is all about choices, if you had watch "The Butterfly Effect" you would know this because CCP says it like 40 times.

When players have a bunch of other choices in games, they will join the thousands of other players who have already unsubded and player games that give me the choice.

Ed
Learn what meaningful player choice is then come back and talk about it. Learn the difference between a sandbox opening and a necessary tutorial. Learn about the truth of the NPE and recall how ill equipped you were when entering the game to fathom exactly what you needed to train next and thus how useless free SP would have been.

Further, maybe you should understand there is no real lost choice in this, only choices gained earlier. The ability for vets to "choose" to not have a skill in their skillsheets is nothing compared to new players having the ability to chose more activities the moment they log in regardless of what or where they do it.

But mostly learn the history of the game and realize that we've always had a static set of skills at character creation, even in the times of Eve's greatest growth and realize you premise has no basis in fact.
LYGIA
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#80 - 2015-09-25 00:57:44 UTC
Hi CCP Rise!
My new alt was born at 13:06 on Sep/15th. Is characters born on '15th/Sep' regarded as in 2 weeks and will she get 300k sp as well?
For security reason, I'll not reveal my new alt. If you want, I'll send u an eve-mail.