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[Vanguard] 350k added skillpoints for new characters!

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Valkin Mordirc
#21 - 2015-09-24 14:50:10 UTC
WOO!


Good change Rise/Fozzie/Team-5-0 (Five Oh? 5-oh?) And CCP.


<3 <3 <3


#DeleteTheWeak
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-09-24 14:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aladar Dangerface
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.

Edit: This is a really good change and will hopefully help the newbros out more.

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#23 - 2015-09-24 15:04:42 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-24 15:15:11 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?


You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after?
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-09-24 15:15:49 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?

Yes

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#26 - 2015-09-24 15:21:28 UTC
Ouch. I'll fall outside the two-week period: I've got probablly 1.7m SP and that extra 350k would be really nice.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-09-24 15:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
This looks like a really well rounded set of starting skills and I love that you included thermodynamics. This will go a long way towards improving the skill training NPE, so many new players I talk to hate that they need an hour for THIS essential module, two hours for THAT module and a day for ANOTHER module right after they started. Really basic stuff like power cores, MWDs, shield extenders.

The skill training system still needs more attention, the removal of attributes or at least of remaps would be very welcome, but making day one players not feel like dead weight is a great start.

Also please ignore all vet whining about not getting free SP. Vets have enough advantages in EVE.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#28 - 2015-09-24 15:25:05 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?


You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after?

I'm against not having the choice. So yes, I'm against free stuff in this regard.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#29 - 2015-09-24 15:26:20 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?

Yes
Good to know. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Barubary Evans
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-09-24 15:31:28 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Also please ignore all vet whining about not getting free SP. Vets have enough advantages in EVE.

I'm not a vet. I'm going to lose 9 day if I remake my third character because I had to take the summer off, or I'm going to lose 16 days if I don't remake my third character. http://puu.sh/kmxoN/fa87aea0e4.jpg

I don't want to have to remake my third character because I've already put time and effort into him even if I haven't had time to train him yet (connecting to people and stuff like that), so I'm probably not going to delete him. But that means I lose out on 16 days of training across the three characters that every other starting character will get.

I'm really glad that new players will be starting with more SP, but it really blows that it isn't going to be upped for everyone.
motie one
Secret Passage
#31 - 2015-09-24 15:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi!

This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k.

The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system.

IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLS

One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.

Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.

Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.



Excellent start, really good work and will be massively helpful to new players. bravo!
Do not be afraid to add more when you have seen just how much this benefits, new player enjoyment and retention.

Add these to all players no matter their age to encourage those who went off into the wrong direction to get back on track and try fun things like PVP. Big smile

We do not need to worry about keeping clones below the limits of an alpha clone, so the old reasons for not giving basic skills, have long gone.

Once again, Great work!
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-09-24 15:47:41 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

They are. If you've got a 6 month old toon and don't have Mining 3 already trained, it's because you didn't want it. See: Mag's.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#33 - 2015-09-24 16:14:23 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?


You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after?


Yes. I didn't train some things on my main and on alts because I didn't want them. I'm glad newbies are getting a starting bump; leave my years-old characters out of it.

Just because someone wants to drop a load of free **** that I don't need nor want in my living room doesn't mean I should welcome it graciously simply because it's free.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#34 - 2015-09-24 16:22:09 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

This is fundamentally wrong.
The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit.
I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout.
The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#35 - 2015-09-24 16:25:02 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi!

This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k.

The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system.

IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLS

One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.

Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.

Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.


First off - this is a great idea/change/implementation to help new players get into the parts of the gameplay that CCP's data has shown to actually help convert/retain them.

That said, it might behoove you/CCP to save that imgur album or re-host those from your CDN since a) the person who posted them could delete them thereby decreasing the usefulness of the album or b) someone could alter the image(s) in the album to something unrelated or....ahem..... unwanted/inappropriate (this is EVE after all).

I'm right behind you
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-09-24 16:25:06 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.

It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?


You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after?


Yes. I didn't train some things on my main and on alts because I didn't want them. I'm glad newbies are getting a starting bump; leave my years-old characters out of it.

Just because someone wants to drop a load of free **** that I don't need nor want in my living room doesn't mean I should welcome it graciously simply because it's free.


I understood that point of view when SP determined your clone grade since free SP you didn't want could make you go to a higher price clone thus having a negative effect on you but now, I really can't see the real issue.

It feels like you passed your driver liscence for big rigs and get given another class for smaller trucks free of change and you want them to remove it because you really only want the big rig class written on the permit.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-09-24 16:30:18 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have.

Sounds like you're itching to volunteer for the Magic School Bus.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-09-24 16:30:40 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

This is fundamentally wrong.
The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit.
I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout.
The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have.


How do you engage them in the community if they have to play the waiting game for a skill to train every time they want to try something new? How the hell do they discover they want to explode ships in group if they never exploded a ship and probably can't because anything will warp away since they don't even have the skill to fit a disruptor?

"Don't teach kids to run because they might try football and if they don't like it, they might never discover how cool hockey is!!!!"
Alundil
Rolled Out
#39 - 2015-09-24 16:32:04 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.

This is fundamentally wrong.
The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit.
I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout.
The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have.

The other side of the issue (simultaneously with attaching/integrating them into the community) is the very real problem of "Welcome to EVE, we hope you enjoy your time here, please wait a few hours/days before you can begin to get an idea of what you might want to do" or the other very real occurrence of new player joins a corp (what we all want) and is promptly given a skill training plan to be able to join their corpmates which also equates to "in a few days you'll be ready, until then....um....we're not sure come haul * (ore, ammo, salvage) or fly into that hostile fleet and die. Isn't that fun?"

We all know what EVE is. It's a time consuming game. We've all gotten there, gotten through it. We all look back on it and say "Wouldn't want to do that again", or "I really miss being able to fly x" but the reality is we're asking/forcing new players to go through the very same pain for a game they aren't even invested in yet. And, shockingly (to no one) new player retention numbers are, how should I say this, not good. This has a chance to turn that around a little by helping them get into the game parts of the game instead of telling them to hurry up and wait (and htfu while they're at it).

I'm right behind you
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-09-24 16:35:36 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Obligatory "SLAP IN THE FACE OF YOUR VETS" post before anyone post it unironically.


Except all real bitter vets started with alot more than that. What was it? Like 800k? Which was nice while you spent the next several weeks training learning skills! ;D