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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2161 - 2015-09-24 02:44:28 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
son.. the numbers are freaking showing right now.. you can sit in denial about all you want to.. but this game is spiraling downward.. you have dev's state they have "visions" just to see what happens then back pedal and change up their vision.. cause obviously they are blind..

they do not get it.. if that vision were correct then we'd be seeing positive numbers. however 14k to 19k active players online is not a vision I would even think to try to brag about. eve is dying


So, about your stuff...

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#2162 - 2015-09-24 03:05:36 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
son.. the numbers are freaking showing right now.. you can sit in denial about all you want to.. but this game is spiraling downward.. you have dev's state they have "visions" just to see what happens then back pedal and change up their vision.. cause obviously they are blind..

they do not get it.. if that vision were correct then we'd be seeing positive numbers. however 14k to 19k active players online is not a vision I would even think to try to brag about. eve is dying


So, about your stuff...



to be auctioned off at a ccp dev welfare auction.
Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2163 - 2015-09-24 09:34:29 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
son.. the numbers are freaking showing right now.. you can sit in denial about all you want to.. but this game is spiraling downward.. you have dev's state they have "visions" just to see what happens then back pedal and change up their vision.. cause obviously they are blind..

they do not get it.. if that vision were correct then we'd be seeing positive numbers. however 14k to 19k active players online is not a vision I would even think to try to brag about. eve is dying


So, about your stuff...


Is waiting for you in w-space.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2164 - 2015-09-24 09:49:27 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
after reading that ccp dude's tongue lashing of a blogger about the state of the game and how the dev's are working to better the game.. I still say.. eve online and ccp still just do not get it..

well they better catch on.. cause its eve vs everyone in 2016.

you better come out of the corner swinging hits cause if you miss ccp games.. someone is going to land a TKO on you.

hope you enjoy boxing..cause the numbers keep on falling and your getting close to a 10 count out.



Oh, see I disagree. The Devs totally get it
Just there are bitter people like you who are determined to spread your bitterness to everyone else because CCP haven't done exactly what you want at every stage in time as fast as you want it no matter how impossible.



son.. the numbers are freaking showing right now.. you can sit in denial about all you want to.. but this game is spiraling downward.. you have dev's state they have "visions" just to see what happens then back pedal and change up their vision.. cause obviously they are blind..

they do not get it.. if that vision were correct then we'd be seeing positive numbers. however 14k to 19k active players online is not a vision I would even think to try to brag about. eve is dying


Well, since Aegis Sov hasn't made anything for PCU, then we'll have to wait for the Citadels expansion to do the trick and revert the stagnation/shrinking.

Then, failing that, we'll have to wait for the rest of structures (first batch being usable in existing space).

Then, faling that, the change will happen with the last batch of structures, including player built gates and opening of New Space

Then, failing that, the miracle will come with the final release of new mechanics for the New Space.

Then, failing that, it's going to be a rough Xmas 2016 at CCP and many will wonder what went wrong and where.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2165 - 2015-09-24 12:11:06 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
after reading that ccp dude's tongue lashing of a blogger about the state of the game and how the dev's are working to better the game.. I still say.. eve online and ccp still just do not get it..

well they better catch on.. cause its eve vs everyone in 2016.

you better come out of the corner swinging hits cause if you miss ccp games.. someone is going to land a TKO on you.

hope you enjoy boxing..cause the numbers keep on falling and your getting close to a 10 count out.



Oh, see I disagree. The Devs totally get it
Just there are bitter people like you who are determined to spread your bitterness to everyone else because CCP haven't done exactly what you want at every stage in time as fast as you want it no matter how impossible.



son.. the numbers are freaking showing right now.. you can sit in denial about all you want to.. but this game is spiraling downward.. you have dev's state they have "visions" just to see what happens then back pedal and change up their vision.. cause obviously they are blind..

they do not get it.. if that vision were correct then we'd be seeing positive numbers. however 14k to 19k active players online is not a vision I would even think to try to brag about. eve is dying


Well, since Aegis Sov hasn't made anything for PCU, then we'll have to wait for the Citadels expansion to do the trick and revert the stagnation/shrinking.

Then, failing that, we'll have to wait for the rest of structures (first batch being usable in existing space).

Then, faling that, the change will happen with the last batch of structures, including player built gates and opening of New Space

Then, failing that, the miracle will come with the final release of new mechanics for the New Space.

Then, failing that, it's going to be a rough Xmas 2016 at CCP and many will wonder what went wrong and where.



The first fail is waiting for CCP to provide the content in the sandbox.
Zealc
Eve Liberation Force
TOONS OF EVE
#2166 - 2015-09-24 12:57:35 UTC
Just going to stick my tuppence in ....

In my opinion, the decline of numbers in Eve is mainly due to two reasons.

The first is the removal of an endgame. An early goal of mine was to fly caps. I achieved this and enjoyed using JFs to help keep the corp and alliance maintained and flying caps into battle, even if it was only to structure bash. However since the nerfs to jump range and the introduction of jump fatigue, moving them is now just a PITA. My caps are now abandoned in deep null and my super unsubbed along with two other accounts that were mainly used for cynos. For me, the endgame was huge battles in huge ships. Now I don't feel there is an endgame, there is nothing past blinged out faction ships for pilots to aim for and that has limited appeal.

The other problem, as I see it, is overfishing in highsec. For example take ganking. It has always existed in Eve but there was some balance. Targets were pilots that foolishly overloaded their haulers with high value goods. As long as haulers took reasonable precautions they were left in peace as there was always a juicer target coming down the pipe. Now ganking has become so prolific, gankers no longer wait for premium targets, any hauler is now a target. Also ganking miners is now almost fashionable. The trouble with all this is that they're driving the carebears out of the game.

Carebears are the nursery fish of New Eden. Let them grow and they will thrive. Some will grow to be juicy loot pinatas, some will eventually migrate to low or null sec. More targets and more potential recruits =win/win. But without them, Eve is going to shrivel and die.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2167 - 2015-09-24 13:39:51 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
But CODE, and the elite PvPers push it to be this thing that news are weak and useless and come back at 30m sp. That really hurts eve. Yeah, can argue the whole bit about gank first and then say learn the game but that is a too late point.
While I agree with much of what you posted I feel that you're wrong about this.

I generally point newbies interested in the darker side of Eve at mercs and gankers that I know to be friendly and willing to spend a little time with a newbie that's interested, most if not all are welcomed and shown the ropes.

The 30M SP requirements of some corps is often down to the need to fly doctrine ships and is sometimes waived in the case of somebody that'll be a good fit. It's always worth having a chat and asking even if they state an SP requirement, they may waive their SP requirement or they may have an associated corp that would be interested.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2168 - 2015-09-24 15:59:02 UTC
Zealc wrote:
Just going to stick my tuppence in ....

- snip - The other problem, as I see it, is overfishing in highsec. For example take ganking. It has always existed in Eve but there was some balance. Targets were pilots that foolishly overloaded their haulers with high value goods. As long as haulers took reasonable precautions they were left in peace as there was always a juicer target coming down the pipe. Now ganking has become so prolific, gankers no longer wait for premium targets, any hauler is now a target. Also ganking miners is now almost fashionable. The trouble with all this is that they're driving the carebears out of the game. - snip -

I'll take this one step farther. Hulkaggedon did teach us to tank our barges - this evened out the risk versus reward for suicide gankers. Now with Goons funding CODE, gankers have no risk at all as their ships are 100% replaced - it is no longer a crafty game of risk versus reward - it is extermination of high sec miners. No individual can complete with a bully corp with max funding by the Goons and 100% ship replacement policy. You can do everything intelligently, and CODE will just come back with more guys and adequate alpha to take you out. I'm sure this is fun for CODE members. It is no fun at all for newbie miners and represents a new form of futility in EvE. And for those who loudly applaud this, I hope you like the population shrinkage.

I have tried to say this many many times - among my gamer friends, EvE has a nasty reputation of being of the griefers, by the griefers, and for the griefers. I will not argue the validity of this, but do you really think this is a winning community perception as a business model with so many alternatives these days ? Again, if you like this concept, then I hope you enjoy the obviously shrinking population. 'Nuf sed.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2169 - 2015-09-24 16:46:33 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
I have tried to say this many many times - among my gamer friends, EvE has a nasty reputation of being of the griefers, by the griefers, and for the griefers. I will not argue the validity of this, but do you really think this is a winning community perception as a business model with so many alternatives these days ?

BUT if CCP does what you want them do, the perception will magically change for the better.

And you get what you want! But of course what is important is that the Decline in numbers... will start to turn into less-RAPID!!!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#2170 - 2015-09-24 16:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
This whole pve versus pvp issue comes up so often but it is not relevant.

If you are the type of person who gets upset over having your 25 cent hauler ganked and might even quit eve over it, eve was never for you. Eve has always been a game that these players would leave as fast as they came. Yep your too dumb buhbye. EVE survived because allot of players like the idea of having risks in a game. It's sort of a gamblers game.

The problem is not that we are losing people who don't know what they are doing and then cry when they lose a ship. EVE always lost those guys. The problem is now it seems we are losing the people who got past that. Of course if CCP ever listened to those who complain that they lost their untanked unescorted autopiloted hauler then those who like the thrill of gambling and trying to beat the odds will no longer be interested - and eve will have bigger problems.

The code and other high sec gankers make it so there is a value in hauling stuff from one place to another.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2171 - 2015-09-24 16:54:37 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
after reading that ccp dude's tongue lashing of a blogger about the state of the game and how the dev's are working to better the game.. I still say.. eve online and ccp still just do not get it..

well they better catch on.. cause its eve vs everyone in 2016.

you better come out of the corner swinging hits cause if you miss ccp games.. someone is going to land a TKO on you.

hope you enjoy boxing..cause the numbers keep on falling and your getting close to a 10 count out.



Oh, see I disagree. The Devs totally get it
Just there are bitter people like you who are determined to spread your bitterness to everyone else because CCP haven't done exactly what you want at every stage in time as fast as you want it no matter how impossible.



son.. the numbers are freaking showing right now.. you can sit in denial about all you want to.. but this game is spiraling downward.. you have dev's state they have "visions" just to see what happens then back pedal and change up their vision.. cause obviously they are blind..

they do not get it.. if that vision were correct then we'd be seeing positive numbers. however 14k to 19k active players online is not a vision I would even think to try to brag about. eve is dying


Well, since Aegis Sov hasn't made anything for PCU, then we'll have to wait for the Citadels expansion to do the trick and revert the stagnation/shrinking.

Then, failing that, we'll have to wait for the rest of structures (first batch being usable in existing space).

Then, faling that, the change will happen with the last batch of structures, including player built gates and opening of New Space

Then, failing that, the miracle will come with the final release of new mechanics for the New Space.

Then, failing that, it's going to be a rough Xmas 2016 at CCP and many will wonder what went wrong and where.



The first fail is waiting for CCP to provide the content in the sandbox.


In a sandbox, the content are the tools provided. No tools = no content. You bet I've been waiting for more tools since 2010 and still nothing. What?
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2172 - 2015-09-24 16:56:54 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
And you get what you want! But of course what is important is that the Decline in numbers... will start to turn into less-RAPID!!!


Or... what a thought... new players will start to enjoy themselves and it will not decline in numbers.

I really don't get what is up with code and such. They like the name so much that they would live to completely thrash CCP's pocket book instead of devoting the same effort to expanding what eve can offer.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2173 - 2015-09-24 16:57:10 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Now with Goons funding CODE


Source or GTFO.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2174 - 2015-09-24 17:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
admiral root wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Now with Goons funding CODE


Source or GTFO.
James 315 was a Goon once, everybody knows that Goons is just Mittens multiboxing on a government supercomputer and that they're a front for an alphabet agency.

Given that all Goons are also Mittens and that James 315 is an ex-Goon, we must surmise that Mittens is funding CODE., via his alt James 315. CODE. in turn are acting as a shell organisation for the front of an alphabet agency with a supercomputer that Mittens has access too

Did I do that right?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2175 - 2015-09-24 17:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Zealc wrote:
Just going to stick my tuppence in ....

- snip - The other problem, as I see it, is overfishing in highsec. For example take ganking. It has always existed in Eve but there was some balance. Targets were pilots that foolishly overloaded their haulers with high value goods. As long as haulers took reasonable precautions they were left in peace as there was always a juicer target coming down the pipe.
This is still the case, I haul regularly through chokepoints and have never been hit.

Quote:
Now ganking has become so prolific, gankers no longer wait for premium targets, any hauler is now a target. Also ganking miners is now almost fashionable. The trouble with all this is that they're driving the carebears out of the game. - snip -
I disagree, ganking appears to have become more prolific because the gankers have become media savvy and are using the tools at their disposal to spread their propaganda. Not every hauler is a target, properly tanked and with an isk limit some of the T1 haulers cost considerably more to gank than they're worth in possible loot; ganking miners has been in fashion since at least 2009 when the first Hulkageddon took place.

Urgg Boolean wrote:
I'll take this one step farther. Hulkaggedon did teach us to tank our barges
Did it? Killboard evidence suggests otherwise; for all you miners out there, a small shield booster is not a tank.

Quote:
this evened out the risk versus reward for suicide gankers. Now with Goons funding CODE, gankers have no risk at all as their ships are 100% replaced - it is no longer a crafty game of risk versus reward - it is extermination of high sec miners. No individual can complete with a bully corp with max funding by the Goons and 100% ship replacement policy.
Does Dinsdale know that you've been inhaling his stash?

Quote:
You can do everything intelligently, and CODE will just come back with more guys and adequate alpha to take you out. I'm sure this is fun for CODE members. It is no fun at all for newbie miners and represents a new form of futility in EvE. And for those who loudly applaud this, I hope you like the population shrinkage.
You could always try not being there when they arrive, I never am.

There's this thing called local and a mechanic called standings, used in conjunction with each other in the right way they let you see every single member of CODE. that is in the same system as you. There's also this thing called the directional scanner, you should try using it to spot possible gankers by ship type within a set radius.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2176 - 2015-09-24 17:25:12 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
I'll take this one step farther. Hulkaggedon did teach us to tank our barges
LMAO no.

Hulkageddon taught miners nothing. They still few untanked and complained about how not tanking them made them easy to kill for so long that CCP had to tank the barges for them. This, of course, made them still not tank the ships (because CCP had supposedly done if for them), and now complain about how not taking the barges makes them easy to kill.

Quote:
Now with Goons funding CODE, gankers have no risk at all as their ships are 100% replaced
No. Compensating for the risk does not mean there is no risk. It proves that there is risk, or the compensation would not be needed.

Quote:
it is no longer a crafty game of risk versus reward - it is extermination of high sec miners. No individual can complete with a bully corp with max funding by the Goons and 100% ship replacement policy.
Yes you can. You see, you just have to do the really foxily clever thing of … [drumroll] … not flying where CODE operates. I admit that it's not actually very clever, but then, neither is the CODE approach so the the crafiness needed is suitably lowered.

Quote:
I'm sure this is fun for CODE members. It is no fun at all for newbie miners and represents a new form of futility in EvE. And for those who loudly applaud this, I hope you like the population shrinkage.
You do know that, in spite of their best efforts, CCP have managed to find no links between ship loss and new players leaving, yes?

Quote:
among my gamer friends, EvE has a nasty reputation of being of the griefers, by the griefers, and for the griefers. I will not argue the validity of this
Why not? I know I have a reputation of being a bit pedantic at times, so it might just be that, but why on earth would you refuse to argue against such bilge?
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2177 - 2015-09-24 18:12:40 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
But CODE, and the elite PvPers push it to be this thing that news are weak and useless and come back at 30m sp. That really hurts eve. Yeah, can argue the whole bit about gank first and then say learn the game but that is a too late point.
While I agree with much of what you posted I feel that you're wrong about this.

I generally point newbies interested in the darker side of Eve at mercs and gankers that I know to be friendly and willing to spend a little time with a newbie that's interested, most if not all are welcomed and shown the ropes.

The 30M SP requirements of some corps is often down to the need to fly doctrine ships and is sometimes waived in the case of somebody that'll be a good fit. It's always worth having a chat and asking even if they state an SP requirement, they may waive their SP requirement or they may have an associated corp that would be interested.



The doctrine part is something I am aware of. Back with pods, and clone costs, etc. Having expendible rookies was a liability. I am the same as you. The part that gets me is that there are people that firmly believe you need a years worth of SP just to pvp because they are so concerned with killboards and losses instead of letting new players act as electronic or small logistic support. It does not take much to turn a tide in a fight. Course if you suddenly have 10 people and encounter a fleet of 5, then probably the fight will end. So lack of good fights also hurts this concept.

Even if i have no interest in a play style, I do still point people and discuss it with them in a constructive manner. Is what I mean about the gank first. If I was actually working the way legitimately, the bullshit that the "helping the players" ganking spew, I would do it entirely different.

I see newb in bad ship, I set them to red standing and give em a message. "Nice ship, tell em their flaw, and that it is a warning out of courtesy. Next time I will shoot."

I would then gank the reds I see. If said red is now in a good or corrected fit, I would set them to yellow. Suddenly I am ganking, waking the player up, and at the same time, improving the community. A message saying fit up, pay up, or die to a new player would get hell of a lot more results. It isn't the concept of play that I disagree with, it is the execution.


Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Now with Goons funding CODE, gankers have no risk at all as their ships are 100% replaced
No. Compensating for the risk does not mean there is no risk. It proves that there is risk, or the compensation would not be needed.


That is crossing risk with a business expense. If a risk is managed, is it a warrantable risk? Is what I say about incursions. Incursions were risky, so the risk/reward was balanced. But the meta and scripting got it so sorted, that the risk is essentially gone. There is POTENTIAL for risk, but is rare enough that it just does not happen at this time.

Makes me wonder, anything can be ganked. Why are not these newbie miner gankers going after the entitled elitists in full A and X type fitted faction ships?

That is really what says much of it for me and their actions. They just want tears and to kick puppies. If they truly believed what they spewed, they would go after that which has the greatest tears instead of that which would cause the most harm to the new player base.

I do suspect they do not want to bite the hand that feeds them...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2178 - 2015-09-24 18:17:57 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
That is crossing risk with a business expense.
Nah, it's treating a risk as a risk and not ignoring what it is just because it has been mitigated.

Quote:
Makes me wonder, anything can be ganked. Why are not these newbie miner gankers going after the entitled elitists in full A and X type fitted faction ships?
Because ganking has been nerfed to the point where it's not really worth-while. It was very popular back in the day, but the changes that killed off mass ganking largely took those with it, leaving only failfit and dumbflown ship.

On other hand, ironically enough, many gank ships are worth ganking. P
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#2179 - 2015-09-24 18:22:28 UTC
Zealc wrote:
The other problem, as I see it, is overfishing in highsec.



This is a problem.

The solution however, isn't to make Hi Sec safer. Antagonists need somewhere to create content, and right now, it's the best place to do so. Is it wrong for predators to follow the prey?

What you want to do is fix low and NPC null to make it more accessible and liveable for new players, such that they have a place to have fun doing their own thing or with their immediate friends, and are encouraged to take risks and learn things until they figure out who they are in New Eden. There should be more visible options for new players than either rotting in High Sec, or joining one of the zerg-herding reddit based sov corps. It would make for a more engaging game, and definitely a more exciting new player experience.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#2180 - 2015-09-24 19:07:52 UTC
Spoke to a couple of Friends last weekend about EvE Online, both had never played it before so I showed them the This is EvE video not the CCP one the one with all the FC raging and such. I explained that they can infiltrate alliances/corps steal spy and metagame like crazy and basically ruin other peoples days or even years result =.2 New subscribers :D

Stop moaning about the game dieing, maybe tell your friends about it I mean really show them, but also tell them that a lot of EvEs promotional video's are mostly bullshit your not going to get 1k player battles everyday and maybe, just maybe you can get your friends playing to.

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"