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new scanning user interface testing on sisi

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Varyah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2015-09-17 15:08:40 UTC
Why can't scanning not just happen in space (as in not in a separate window).

This would provide a more immersive gameplay that feels like exploration and not just another somewhat disconnected minigame in the actual game. I mean, why are signatures actually shown by the sensor overlay in space again?
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
Great Blue Balls of Fire
#42 - 2015-09-17 15:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
Here's how I'm using it my first time. Bit cramped for space on my 22" monitor. This would be great throwing on second monitor so scanning window is on right monitor and normal client is on left. However since I'm usually using second monitor for another character that's a bit moot.

This is pretty cool. I like the idea just wonder if its not very practical.

Complaints/Issues:
1. Scan sig down. Zoom out to scan next sig and have issues moving probes because 100% sig is 'on top'.
2. The probe manipulator box scales with window height. The box size is tiny when window height is at min. Like barely bigger than cursor!
3. The balloons for planets/gates/etc. are annoying. Can't they pop up only if mouse hovers for a second or something? I had to turn nearly all of them off just so I could actually scan.
4. Not related to scanning but I'd like to be able to vertically change camera center for this new scanning window.
5. Maximum zoom is insufficient for many planets/moons. Example. At max zoom I want to be able to easily distinguish different moons apart. Have to warp to pos result to figure out exactly what moon its on when they are so close together.

Comments:
1. Would like to be able to position the controls on either side of scanning window. I.E. move the analyze/probes/scan results block to left side. Maybe make it free floating?
2. Whats the point of the destroy probes button? Why would you ever want to destroy your probes? Shouldn't this just be removed?
3. Toggling anoms on/off is now a 2 click operation.
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#43 - 2015-09-17 15:40:26 UTC
Adding my feedback to the same doc as before. Found some weird bugs related to zooming in/out and resizing the window:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hcc59_ZWxoTjTkfz0st8-e-f9E_ojrc3leSwP04iSj0
Arla Sarain
#44 - 2015-09-17 15:46:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Varyah wrote:
Why can't scanning not just happen in space (as in not in a separate window).

This would provide a more immersive gameplay that feels like exploration and not just another somewhat disconnected minigame in the actual game. I mean, why are signatures actually shown by the sensor overlay in space again?

Yeap.


Noticed improvements:
*Snapping is superfast, could be a tad slower, but still appreciate the speed of the new new map.
*Bookmarks don't fade out too much.
*Scanning cube scale is constant regardless of window size. Makes it easier to interact with.
*There are these nice, full bold white dots on the celestial orbital paths where there might be points of interest. These are really nice and much preferred over the Balloons wrapping the brackets.

Things that were not addressed since last iteration:
*Bookmarks don't show distance. They do in the old old window.
*Bookmarks still warpable only through right click, no click-n-hold contextual menu.
*Progress rings still constant scale. Seriously, try zooming out in a small window. Now you have a huge green clusterfudge full of anomalies.
*Also, why do anomalies have progress rings? They can never be below 100% anyway.
*I suggest you animate the progress ring so that at 100% it shows up briefly, then disappears.
*Still not possible to filter through sigs by selecting them in the probe window, like you can in the old map. Specifically, by selecting one sig they others fade out, but their progress is not lost.
*Someone still has an unhealthy intimate fascination with the skybox. It's a scanning interface, not a canvas.
*"Type" column is still not present in the embed probe scanner window by default. Can't figure whats a Relic, Combat site or whatever. Have to Google by names and remember by heart.
*Tactical overlay is too faded out. Trick is if you make too opaque it blends with the orbital paths. Hence the previous suggestion of changing color.
*The pop-out signature window when you hover your mouse over a sig is too fast and snappy. This presents an issue when you need to send your scanning cube into a bunch of anoms/100% sig. Hovering your mouse over these spams you with these popup windows, making it difficult to interact with the cube.
*It is still possible to accidentally drag the cube by the arrow and fling at the speed of light to the bottom of nowhere. There need to be some artificial limits to the scanning window 3D box. Something like 400-500AU box. Doubt there is a system bigger than that. All sigs appear around celestials anyway.
*Balloons still exist.

Overall, not much of an improvement. Still obtrusive and sends a message that functionality was sacrificed in favour of bling and glitter. Wouldn't use it over the F10 variant.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#45 - 2015-09-17 16:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Are all changes active on Sisi? There has not been a new build deployed in 2 days.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#46 - 2015-09-17 17:31:07 UTC
Center probes on self button, pretty please? Big smile

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Ashterothi
Pew Bears
#47 - 2015-09-17 17:50:45 UTC
Here are my notes from my playing with the feature after it was updated:

Small red dots are hard to double click on. Unscanned sigs could be a bit more obvious and have a higher priority for clicking. Inconsistent that you click on the dot for sigs, but the label above the dot for everything else. Bigger would be better, customizable scalability would be best ;-)

Probe bubble visual effect nifty. But would be fun to see the same bounce with resizes.

I cannot highlight a sig on the scan results screen and see which of the small red dots it is. I can see it for scanned sigs. I CAN get this information from hovering over the red dot, so it isn’t like that information is hidden.

enter to probe is fantastic. Can we get this for Dscan? ;-)

Here is the real problem: I cannot visually check to see what are sigs and what are anams in the list. The filter out anoms is not obvious ( I couldn’t figure it out by just monkeying with it and I know it is a possibility. Someone who does not know about it, don't know how to do any filtering). So I just scanned down a sig, but I don’t actually know which one is sigs and which ones are anoms on the list without memorizing what sites are what. This is worse than the old system. I would like more information about my scan results, but the customization of that panel is god awful.

Follow up: I finally found the filters, and think it is OK. However the UI has taught us that customization is either at the top or bottom of the panel, and filtering is generally at the bottom (see inventory). Also the place to control filters, is different than the place that reports filters. I think some UI flourish (even a carrot or something) to indicate there is more information there is in order.

Finally, the fact we are not getting the option to turn on our dscan cone makes me sad.I thought we lived in the future!
Vic Vorlon
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#48 - 2015-09-17 18:59:16 UTC
I have a suggestion for a little feature - how about a keyboard shortcut and a separate UI control for the size of the probe spheres? The current method of pointing the mouse to the edge of one of the spheres can sometimes be fiddly, but if you were to ADD (not substitute) a keyboard shortcut and/or a slider (a la dscan range control) in the UI, that would be great.

I'm thinking up/down arrow, or page-up/page-down to change probe sphere size up (16AU to 32AU, for example) or down (16AU to 8AU for example).
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#49 - 2015-09-17 19:13:36 UTC
Vic Vorlon wrote:
I have a suggestion for a little feature - how about a keyboard shortcut and a separate UI control for the size of the probe spheres? The current method of pointing the mouse to the edge of one of the spheres can sometimes be fiddly, but if you were to ADD (not substitute) a keyboard shortcut and/or a slider (a la dscan range control) in the UI, that would be great.

I'm thinking up/down arrow, or page-up/page-down to change probe sphere size up (16AU to 32AU, for example) or down (16AU to 8AU for example).


Seconded, this would be awesome. Now with the ENTER hotkey it means you could scan very efficiently.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Vala Ancalagon
15 Minute Outliers
#50 - 2015-09-18 00:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vala Ancalagon
A couple suggestions:

- Right now when you hover over a sig in the sig list, the % circle lights up. I think the dot in the middle should also get brighter. I also think you should be able to click the sig in the list, and have it stay highlighted. That way you can highlight a sig you want to look at, then move the probes around to do so without losing track of which dot that was that you cared about. The other sigs should fade back a bit when doing this.

- Still don't like the balloons!

- Would still like the ability to align for dscan from within the map

- I like vic's suggestion also!

- I don't agree that the popup for hovering over sigs is too fast... why would anyone want something to be slower???

- Bookmarks don't show distance, but they should!

- The background is faded out enough now that it isn't an issue

- It would be interesting to see the locations of fleet members in your system on the map but that's probably beyond scope or intended capability.

Edit:

- The overall width of the results can't be changed, making some things unreadable

- The old background color bars for % were better than the underline

- I'm going to reiterate that clicking one signal in the list should highlight that item in the map, and stay highlighted.

- Integrating the scan angle indicator from the F11 menu would be a huge benefit, as that's the only reason I use that menu.
Quesa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-09-18 03:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Quesa
Hey guys, good changes so far.

One of my biggest issues with the current probing system is the ability to accidentally grab the wrong axis. So, if you're looking down on the probes, you are still able to click and drag on the UP arrow. Given the perspective at the time, the most minute movements will throw the probes very far out of view and very difficult to bring them back into the view. Most of the time this results in having to recall and re-deploy probes.

Better illustration:

If you can see it here: http://i.imgur.com/Gf3dVwk.jpg. This shows me looking down on the probes and dragging using the up arrow. Now, from this view, this http://i.imgur.com/HO284Jf.png shows me looking strait down, in an attempt to move the probes along the x and z axis but still able to click and hold the y axis. Keep in mind that this is me having the window open to almost full screen and zoomed in close the the probes. Think of this issue when speed of scanning has consequences and you are zoomed out with other markers on the screen and trying to move the probes around a system, if you then grab the y axis, you're in big trouble, like here http://i.imgur.com/LdrcFsO.png. Now, look at the previous picture and then this http://i.imgur.com/c7BEsYc.png notice how short of distance the mouse was moved to the left, this resulted in the probes ending up so far up that they cannot be seen or moved without completely zooming out of the solar system, like here http://i.imgur.com/PrCGaSh.png.
Montecore Qubaal
15 Minute Outliers
#52 - 2015-09-18 06:49:46 UTC
Great changes! This new iteration is much better. I can actually use and get by with the current version. I would like to see more work done to bring it on par with the old map. Anyway, great progress!

Sometimes when you enter a system with the scan interface open, the “you are here” marker get broken. It is located at the sun and doesn’t move with your ship. I still would like that marker to be colored.

I’m happy to see that hovering over a celestial now displays your distance to that celestial. I’m hoping the box containing that info could be widened. The bookmarks pins also need to show your distance to the bookmark. I forgot to check if anomalies show their distance. Basically everything on the map should show your distance to it like on the old solar system map.

I agree with the other posters that there need to be a tiny menu icon placed next to the Filtered and Ignored menu labels to indicate to people that those are actually interactable menus.

So that I can still use the overview, dscan, and chat boxes, I can’t make my probing window very large. It works well with my full size monitor. I’m concerned that it wouldn’t be good on a small screen like on a laptop. It would be nice to be able to use the interface like the old interface which is to put it in full screen mode with your windows (probe scanner,overview, dscan, chat) on top.

To be consistent with the rest of the game and because I prefer it, I hope the radial menu can be made to work in the scanning interface.
Arla Sarain
#53 - 2015-09-18 12:18:24 UTC
Vala Ancalagon wrote:

- I don't agree that the popup for hovering over sigs is too fast... why would anyone want something to be slower???

So that when you need to traverse your cursor over the sigs in the map window to navigate to the probe box you aren't spammed with these and remain unable to interact with the box because they overlap.

In retrospect, the fade delay cannot be reduced because it's needed so that you could hover over the popup panel and use the warp button from there. Which would be redundant if the radial menu and the contextual right click menu actually worked...

Hence fix the radial menu and assume people will use it or the right click menu to warp to sigs from the map and reduce the fade out timer of the popup that occurs when you swipe your cursor across a field of sigs/anoms.
Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#54 - 2015-09-18 23:44:03 UTC
Sorry if this has already been brought up, but on the system currently on TQ, if I align my 'you are here' and say the sun while in the map, select 30 degrees and hit the d-scan button, the directional results change to the sun, and whatever is on the sun.

Under this new system the d-scan results do not change when doing this.

This is currently a really useful feature for quickly getting a fix on things in system.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#55 - 2015-09-20 07:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Why for the love of god is there still celestial brackets stacking at close zoom, and why is the maximum zoom so limited compared to the old map? (That enabled you to see each moon separately) X

Being able to tell if an enemy is on moon 1 or moon 2 with combat probes isn't a luxury!

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Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Montrazar Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-09-20 08:45:45 UTC
This is from the point of view of probe scanning anomalies, very little experience of combat scanning

It looks and works better than the previous attempt
I still would not use it for scanning over the orginal

First thing I noticed apart from the fact it is still in a window that covers everything else on your screen depending on size is that whislt it shows the various spreads of probes available to you, you cannot click on them and launch, i had to go back to the old probe screen and launch from there - having tried again, it seems it is my saved spreads that cannot launch from that window, the default ones can!
The fact that it covers everything else is really useless when you are using a modest/regular sized monitor, even when dragged to full size (no auto windows style full screen/windowed button apparent)
Can we have an option to turn off the 'You are here' marker as well please, too big, too intrusive. Have to say my first action (after trying screen resizing) was to find out where to switch all the markers off.
Why do we need the progress rings, the information in the original window on the bar and now the thin line under the anom name is enough, unnecessary clutter as far as I am concerned
Clicking on an anomaly needs to have that as the only signature on the scanner like now, not just fade it out a bit otherwise I will be constantly ignoring and re-show signatures, no thanks I will use the old system. In a wormhole with losts of sigs this is particularly annoying.
Definitely need an identifier for the type of site as mentioned by others, no good having to remember once they are scanned, even the hover over box does not tell you.

In summary, still not a fan, nothing so far has convinced me that I want to switch from the current system.
unimatrix0030
Mass Collapse
It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
#57 - 2015-09-20 08:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
I only tested anomalie scanning not combat scanning.

The first thing i did was take off all the markers(except sattelite, still haven't seen on of those ).
They clutter up the window that it is hard to see where to move the probes.
Even the probe markers get in the way, if i need to move them seperatly pressing shift is easier.
First hing i hate is the fact that you can't expand the scan results window to the left or right.
Now it is to small to see the sig name and what the thing is you scanned.
The mouse over helps but should not be the only thing needed.
The scan results are copyable wich i like( needed for wh-mappers).
A thing a noticed, when scanning a wormhole it suddently had 2 indicators, one just a normal filled dot one and one with the triangle wit dot above it one. Ma-ybe a bug? If you know it is a wh then the dot one needs to go.
And since the sig and it outercircle do not scale it became harder to actualy find the correct one of the two.
Also could the recover probe button be ontop next to the formations?
It is actualy used quite often, before i jump a hole... .

Also some functionality i miss i seeing wich scan filter you set . Or is that obscured by the fact that you can not enlarge the scan results window horizontaly?

We also absolutly need the type of anomaly in the scan results list(for mapping purposes).

O, by the way the sun doesn't need to be that bright .

If you ignore scanresults you can only un-ignore them all , not specific ones like you could in the old scan results window.

I think i have found a small bug. I was zoomed in on the sun before i jumped the wormhole.
In the new system the marker of where i was was at the sun, but my ship was elsewhere(at the hole i jumped through).
The start was close (3.85au) but as i bookmarked the hole the bm marker was at the correct location.
Edit: does not happen all the time, i will try to recreate it.

With the large size of the markers, is there any way of filtering corp bookmarks also?
In corp bookmarks(and someday alliance bm's i hope) , there are bm's of our pos/stations, safe log of spots,... but also the day to day wormholes. Is there any way we can filter between them? Example if we stick wh bookmarks in a folder wh's, pos locations in pos location folder,... . Would be nice if we can filter the markers also by folders we made in bookmarks.

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#58 - 2015-09-20 12:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivlis Eldelbar
I like the overall direction, it's an improvement from the beta map, but it is still worse than the old system map.

Some good stuff:

- The DScan overlay is fainter than the system orbits now, making it less obtrusive (old grievance of mine)
- The signature dots are smaller, which is welcome
- Having the probe controls within the same window as the map is very nice
- Being able to collapse the useless probe list is great (you could just do away with it since probes work in groups now)
- Running a scan by hitting enter (thank you so much!)


Some stuff that needs work:

- Zoom levels are still inadequate, on both ends of the spectrum
- Map markers are too obtrusive... maybe we could turn them off without losing all indication that there is something there? Like leaving a small dot on celestials when you deactivate their marker?
- The map window reference for centering appears to be in the middle of the square that has no control elements in it, rather than the center of the whole window. Maybe some like it that way, but I find the probe controls unintrusive and the off-center reference drives me nuts, could we have an option like we do with the ship cam?
- The signature list is missing some columns, and while I have at times wished I could turn some off, I find I don't know all the data sites by name and thus can't avoid them fast enough now :P
- The anom filtering mechanism needs work. Unfortunately I can't quite suggest a good way of doing it, but I hope you'll come up with something before you're in need of squeezing citadels in there
- Tooltips are way too fast to trigger
- Probes should take precedence for selection ALWAYS. They are the raison d'etre of this map and in no circumstance should I have to fight other map elements when I am trying to drag a probe arrow. Or, from another point of view, Probes are easy to move out of the way if I do need to click on a planet.
- Any chance we could launch probes on self rather than on the sun?



And I know this it mostly offtopic but, is there any chance we can hope for a dscan functionality rework? Alter ranges based on hull? Pretty please? In the name of de-dumbing exploration?
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-09-21 01:20:24 UTC
Stil no Dscan functionality in the new probe window that I can see.

Without DSCAN it will just take more time as we need to switch back to the old solar system map to do a 15 degree dscan of a moon/anom etc

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-09-22 00:35:46 UTC
I dont appreciate that new scanning window pushes new icons on me. This was last straw.

-2 paying accounts.

https://gyazo.com/417ca44bc3a8399c702af46dd0b77605

The whole of this year was a waste of my time. Good bye.