EVE General Discussion

Blah blah blah, TL:DR people still thing it takes a long time to be good.

Let us compare to any other MMO. Reasonable and average gamer play. I start. I select class. Four months later, I am top tier..... If I grind experience... Want to do some other class? Restart or respec.

Eve online. Two days training, and easily can have a fit that can assist the most veteran players. Three months, can be pretty well trained into a roll. Six months, you have found that role you like and are pretty specialized.

Problem is the players who all want to be top DPS capital ship pilots. And players who think somebody is np good if under 10m sp for some reason. Newbs are extra damage, support and ewar in cheap fits. Seems full win to me. On top, grind is only for shinies. I gain SP even if just sightseeing.

PvP. PvE. Whatever your style is man, just do that ****. Good on you.

Fat nerd.

That is what shiny gear is for. Titans should be that elite stuff people farm years to get and maybe actually do... Legendary grade.

It is just that matter of perception. It isnt the sp, but the gameplay devaluing. For better combat, we make lower sp fits more important. That in turn changes how people perceive.


Actually, am a quite fit and active nerd. Thank you for your concern. Have a nerd smily, just for you.

^u^

Looks pretty steady to me. Hovering at typically depressed summer numbers. It's no surprise numbers have been dropping, especially over this year. But I think the drop in concurrent online user numbers has bottomed out. Time for a newbro promotion methinks.

I believe that SP really doesn't do anything except give us a reason to anticipate character progression in order to build intrinsic value for our characters. It indirectly fosters more in game activity by making us patient, but it's a detriment if it takes too long.

I believe ISK is king in substituting for SP's lack of importance. It determines how any of us evaluate how risky we want to play. That's why faster training time means nothing if you're talking about Titans. If you gave the vast majority of EvE players all Titan skills necessary to be perfect, how many people will actually be able to afford them assuming we go by the "don't risk what you cant replace" motto?

The point I am trying to make is that SP is either an indirect and small boost to content generation/player retention or just negative. It needs to be managed scrupulously in order to make sure it's not hurting the game. Subsequently, we should be more confident that ISK and the market has the ability to regulate the game better than SP can ever hope.

Why change the game when changing the perception is just as easy?

1. Get 3-4 videos out about the cool things one can do within a week of joining eve.
2. Seed the rookie help channel with CCP employees with a here's how you can do cool stuff straight away scripts.
3. Make ingame connections between groups who are new player focused: karma, legion, brave, uni, and said new players.
4. Monitor said new players avtivity levels and satisfaction with the game.

Valid suggestion. I would be OK with changing the way skills are introduced. Like lvl IV being introduced as the new max. And lvl V visibly being seen as an extra skill level for higher, but not necessary proficiency. That way people are not as prone to see lvl V as a must.

That is why I am of similar point as well. I am more along the line that the best way to do so is kinda/sorta what they have been doing, although lacking in doing well. Increase the value of new players. If SP usage on the field related to pieces of a strategy board game, right now most combat plays like checkers, but what we really need is to get it like chess.

Not to be derogatory, but it is what it is. New players are the pawns. But need lots of pawns for a good fight. More versatility and variability in equipment, ships, etc will allow enough stuff to statisfy most players as they earn LP by making SP only a part of the game play instead of a minimum. In majority of games, we have that same balance of power where the highest SP is the fewest. Combat should reflect that where it all starts with small.

So any combat is ideally suited to frigates. Then toss in some dessies.

Too many small hulls, need high damage, but vulnerable medium hulls. Need friggies to take down mediums, friggies to defend mediums, and mediums to take down friggies. Tweak equipment to make ships more specialized in how they deal damage and as such, have to have a versatile fleet composition else a few can take out many.

Repeat for medium to large hulls, large to capitals.

Suddenly, if somebody is fielding capitals, they want to find the best of the rookies for the roles so that their higher SP players can field the more critical, but vulnerable larger hulls.

Instead, everybody show up in your ____ hull fit. Press F1.



Wish to talk grind? New training>old training unless you want to fly all four command ships. Yeah, being a universal spec like myself for commands is nice to be grandfathered.

I loved having to train T2 cruiser... four times, AND T2 battlecruisers AND train for Logistics AND train for HAS and and and.... No. Getting into a command ship is much more fitting now for entry as it assumes most groups will have a general skill focus. What point is there in training shield bonus info link command ships if your fleet flies and spec trains amarr on combat side? If I remember, training three of the command ships up equals training all four now or something similar. With all four not being a whole lot more.

Who cares if leadership is in the mix as well. Need to really train that anyways if you want to make use of it.

Horizontal grind, most people wouldn't notice. Vertical climbs tire people out.

Let me tell you about my first two years which involved Learning skills to V, All command ships to V and Leaderships to V. Full combat support to fly them in fleets only to be negated cause now peeps can easy farm isk for plex and every player and their hamster having a Commship spec alt that just hops around off grid.

You take it as arrogant, I take it as truth as a person who actually understands chess and the importance of a pawn. In chess, a pawn and careful usage of them is extremely vital. They cannot do much. Just move up short steps, only forward. Combat is limited to a forwards sidestep slice. But they hold the line and keep the enemy at bay.

That is what it is. The new players can fill a simple, and low cost, expendable role, but they are absolutely vital to holding the front. Us veterans should be just giving them piles of ships.

This is how I used to teach counter PvP to industry corporations to counter Highsec wars.

I gave em skills, less than 24 hours training required and ships with fittings. I taught them how to set up overview to prevent losing pods. I then said get out there and do this so us veterans can take out the war dec targets. They will die, but we got the ships covered. Result is we never lost a highsec war back in the day cause I had my newbs. They loved it, I loved it.

My first week in the game, I was in an ecm tackle griffin. I got popped, I didn't care cause I held up a target long enough for corpies to gain control. That win was mine. I didn't do most damage, I didn't get final blow, but wouldn't have died if not for that little griffin.

I never said fodder. I said a pawn. Key to holding the front.

Edit: And remember reason I used it. Chess and Checkers are played on the same field. Eve currently plays like checkers. Everybody is the same. Fights the same, moves the same. One guy can be king and then just steals the whole show. Cannot do anything about it.

Yeah, I play chess too. With inanimate objects.

The arrogance here is you think the game, game board and the pieces are all yours.

Again, some people won't sign up if they are told they can only ever be pawns. Some won't stay if they realize they are only ever being used as pawns, and in the end:

You don't get to be the Omnipotent one deciding who does what and where. Again, a very arrogant vet mentality.

You want truth? You can't handle the truth.

And you certainly didn't find it and put it in your post.