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Collective petition about fozziesov

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Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#161 - 2015-08-02 09:23:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
PROBLEM: Alliances want to work together in close knit cooperative groups again like the, 'Good Ol Days".

SOLUTION: Repeat oft used nullsec mantra frequently heard when highsec didnt want some change put into the game, adapt and HTFU !

No, working together in close knit cooperative groups is the solution.



I dunno, it just doesn't have the same "righteous retribution for your high sec crimes" vibe which is needed.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#162 - 2015-08-02 09:40:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Malcanis wrote:
Emma Kado wrote:
"It Is Not the Strongest of the Species that Survives But the Most Adaptable to change" - Charles Darwin.

Any change to any system within EVE will come with those who win from the changes and those who will lose from the changes. I would like to point out that all the signatories to this post are the powers of old, those who adapted to the dominion sov system and built their empires using the tactics and strategies that worked for that system and those times. They are obviously the ones losing out on the new system, but does that make fozziesov a bad system?

I would ike to offer a counter perspective as a new alliance taking sov in nullsec for the first time.

We (The CORVOS) were determined that we would not become a part of a coalition when we made the move to sov null. Many of our leadership had been involved in sov before but we wanted to own our space in our own right. Ours to hold or lose on our own merits. We made some allies, but no supercoalitions with blues for 30 jumps.
So far we have been able to hold off much larger groups with better ship comps and numerical advantage by adapting to fozziesov. Small teams (2-3 pilots) have been able to effectivley stop the enemy gaining any control whatsoever. sure we havent won every fight but we have been able to maintain our sov without simply being forced to face the enemy head on. We can fight hit and run gurella style, deny the enemy pilots their F1 pressing sessions while giving our own pilots invaluable small gang experince as we destory entosis ships and their escorts.
Fozziesov has allowed us, as well as many other smaller independant groups to compete in the sov game.

Of course it is no wonder the empires of olde are unhappy, they lose out on this. Their weaknesses of old are now gaping holes in their battle plans. Their pilots and FCs will need to change if their alliances are to be able to survive.

No longer are fights decided on one single massive engagement.
Individual pilot skill matters. A small team of commited and experienced pilots can hold off or at least delay a larger force.
Big F1 pressing fests are not what every player wants. I want to be able to, mid fight, take command of a small detachment of a larger fleet and hit enemy positions and eliminate enemy entosis ships and their escorts.

If you cannot adapt to the new system you will die. And those who can adapt and survive will take your place at the top of the food chain. You will not be able to have massive afk empires that noone can ever threaten.

Welcome to fozziesov boys.

This isnt to say its perfect. UAXDeath does make some good points, such as not having to clean up uncontested nodes. But with CCPs new release cycle they will be able to monitor and change the system as it needs. But the system as a whole is great, if the powers of old are complaining its an indication that fozziesov is working.

And to CCP: Keep up the good work.


Well said and bravo to your alliance, good sir

Keep on Doing It Right.


These guys are doing it right up until PL and the Imperium hell camp every single one of their systems and break them in one swift and brutal campaign, which will be made even more brutal when stations can be destroyed.

However I like what I am seeing so far and that people who control space without using it are complaining.

Many of the Russians alliances operating around Stain still have a ton of people doing missions in Stain, they should be kicking them to work on the ADM.

EDIT: One thing I want to say on this is that a lot of those alliances need to create a buffer zone of systems and stations to get around the hell camp risk from one of the super powers, that is their additional cost so to speak. I am also interested to see just how far from the NPC areas PL will move for a campaign, will be interesting to see.

And a final off topic comment, good catch to the Initiative on that NCDOT move, I have always had a certain level of respect for the Initiative.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#163 - 2015-08-02 10:24:00 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Many of the Russians alliances operating around Stain still have a ton of people doing missions in Stain, they should be kicking them to work on the ADM.

pvesov, the hero we deserve

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Coral Theisman
Space Ants
Brave Collective
#164 - 2015-08-02 10:36:48 UTC
So guys, let's have 20-200 unoccupied systems we cannot realisticslly cover and let's moan when we have to do something to defend them.

Fozziesov is fundamentally right, it just needs some tweaks. Defend the systems where you live, don't care about the systems where you don't live. Seems like people tend to freak out when they cannot have millions of empty systems for renting.

I feel that only a couple of alliances actually bothered to think further than "muh rentals", really.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2015-08-02 10:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Icycle
Teckos Pech wrote:
Icycle wrote:


I beg to differ. Go into pure blind and see. You will be hard pressed to find many CFC's. Fade , Tribute has also alot of systems as well as space around Venal. A lot of unused systems or has very little people in system. The only real region that get alot of use is Deklein and Branch. Also its in the ratting statistics! Which also prove my point. I know where I live after all I kill in it every day and do several roams.


I too can cherry pick data points....

Let me see,

Goonswarm: 13954/103 = 135.5 pilots/system
FCON: 4896/80 = 61.2 pilots/system
Co2: 2857/34 = 84 pilots/system
Get Off My Lawn: = 2121/53 = 40 pilots/system
EXE: 1221/14 = 87 pilots/system

Compare this too Legion of Death, Shadow of Death, Brothers of Tangra and we see vastly smaller numbers as in the teens or even single digits for Shadow of Death.

Does this mean that each and every system in Deklein will have 135.5 pilots in it? No, it's an average. Some will have more, some less. Keeping in mind that not all of them will be logged in at once either.

So now we know why some alliances are struggling with Fozziesov. I'd say working as intended (note: I'm not saying it is good or bad here, but if the intent was to free up unused systems...well, sounds like it is going to happen one way or the other....). If you insist on remaining as an "elite and exclusive alliance" and also insist on holding a large number of systems....you are going to be very busy going forward in game.

This information was presented earlier too. Roll



you are repeating what i already mentioned abov about the drone region having the largest unoccupied space. CFC still has lot of space unoccupied and that forces them to do vast jumps. If it wasnt they will not be coming from declein+branch to pure blind. Wether the space is good or bad it does not make a difference. You do not live in pure blind so makes it useless having to defend it. If you want to keep them fine, more entosis for me, but dont whine then when you got to do a lot of jumps to defend. Make up your mind. You cant have everything favouring your side. You got to make a choice and select what space you want to keep. And if the space is too far, then it may not be to the best interest to protect specially if you dont live in it. Which is my point. I love gorrilla warfare and entosing is a really big plus for us.
Entosis has really given birth to gorrilla warfare, which i think its fantastic. I feel like we are going back to the old days of small numbers war which is very opposite to the piling up in a system of as many people as possible to make sure they have loaded the grid first and obtain the advantage that way and win. Large battle will happen no matter what.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#166 - 2015-08-02 10:58:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Emma Kado wrote:
"It Is Not the Strongest of the Species that Survives But the Most Adaptable to change" - Charles Darwin.

Any change to any system within EVE will come with those who win from the changes and those who will lose from the changes. I would like to point out that all the signatories to this post are the powers of old, those who adapted to the dominion sov system and built their empires using the tactics and strategies that worked for that system and those times. They are obviously the ones losing out on the new system, but does that make fozziesov a bad system?

I would ike to offer a counter perspective as a new alliance taking sov in nullsec for the first time.

We (The CORVOS) were determined that we would not become a part of a coalition when we made the move to sov null. Many of our leadership had been involved in sov before but we wanted to own our space in our own right. Ours to hold or lose on our own merits. We made some allies, but no supercoalitions with blues for 30 jumps.
So far we have been able to hold off much larger groups with better ship comps and numerical advantage by adapting to fozziesov. Small teams (2-3 pilots) have been able to effectivley stop the enemy gaining any control whatsoever. sure we havent won every fight but we have been able to maintain our sov without simply being forced to face the enemy head on. We can fight hit and run gurella style, deny the enemy pilots their F1 pressing sessions while giving our own pilots invaluable small gang experince as we destory entosis ships and their escorts.
Fozziesov has allowed us, as well as many other smaller independant groups to compete in the sov game.

Of course it is no wonder the empires of olde are unhappy, they lose out on this. Their weaknesses of old are now gaping holes in their battle plans. Their pilots and FCs will need to change if their alliances are to be able to survive.

No longer are fights decided on one single massive engagement.
Individual pilot skill matters. A small team of commited and experienced pilots can hold off or at least delay a larger force.
Big F1 pressing fests are not what every player wants. I want to be able to, mid fight, take command of a small detachment of a larger fleet and hit enemy positions and eliminate enemy entosis ships and their escorts.

If you cannot adapt to the new system you will die. And those who can adapt and survive will take your place at the top of the food chain. You will not be able to have massive afk empires that noone can ever threaten.

Welcome to fozziesov boys.

This isnt to say its perfect. UAXDeath does make some good points, such as not having to clean up uncontested nodes. But with CCPs new release cycle they will be able to monitor and change the system as it needs. But the system as a whole is great, if the powers of old are complaining its an indication that fozziesov is working.

And to CCP: Keep up the good work.


Well said and bravo to your alliance, good sir

Keep on Doing It Right.


These guys are doing it right up until PL and the Imperium hell camp every single one of their systems and break them in one swift and brutal campaign, which will be made even more brutal when stations can be destroyed.

However I like what I am seeing so far and that people who control space without using it are complaining.

Many of the Russians alliances operating around Stain still have a ton of people doing missions in Stain, they should be kicking them to work on the ADM.

EDIT: One thing I want to say on this is that a lot of those alliances need to create a buffer zone of systems and stations to get around the hell camp risk from one of the super powers, that is their additional cost so to speak. I am also interested to see just how far from the NPC areas PL will move for a campaign, will be interesting to see.

And a final off topic comment, good catch to the Initiative on that NCDOT move, I have always had a certain level of respect for the Initiative.


But the point that is being so graphically, if unintentionally, illustrated by this thread is that sov space will now belong to the people who want it enough to keep fighting for it. PL may well come visit them, sure. How long will they stay and fight for it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#167 - 2015-08-02 11:26:04 UTC
Mordus' Ceptors, eh.

Make the most of trollsov.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2015-08-02 11:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Icycle
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mordus' Ceptors, eh.

Make the most of trollsov.



All the last 7 systems we entosed were corm fleet. Get it right Cool. Its not troll sov its called guerilla tactics and not letting you breath.
I entosed one in a cruiser the other day and attempted to get a second Twisted
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#169 - 2015-08-02 11:47:04 UTC
has anyone lost a their capital yet?

or is just systems in the middle of nowhere that defenders have no presence?
Spurty
#170 - 2015-08-02 11:49:10 UTC
Wouldn't passing Sov to another entity give a 7 day invulnerability boon?

If so, eek! How simple to make it impossible to take that space as 6 days and 23 hours after the first transfer, you just push it back to the original owners for another 7 days invulnerability?

I'd sooner there was zero ways to sneak that in.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#171 - 2015-08-02 12:09:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
These guys are doing it right up until PL and the Imperium hell camp every single one of their systems and break them in one swift and brutal campaign, which will be made even more brutal when stations can be destroyed.

However I like what I am seeing so far and that people who control space without using it are complaining.

Many of the Russians alliances operating around Stain still have a ton of people doing missions in Stain, they should be kicking them to work on the ADM.

EDIT: One thing I want to say on this is that a lot of those alliances need to create a buffer zone of systems and stations to get around the hell camp risk from one of the super powers, that is their additional cost so to speak. I am also interested to see just how far from the NPC areas PL will move for a campaign, will be interesting to see.

And a final off topic comment, good catch to the Initiative on that NCDOT move, I have always had a certain level of respect for the Initiative.


But the point that is being so graphically, if unintentionally, illustrated by this thread is that sov space will now belong to the people who want it enough to keep fighting for it. PL may well come visit them, sure. How long will they stay and fight for it?


Yes you are right I do not disagree, however those alliances have to have a strategy to deal with the two super powers coming for good fights which us lessor mortals know as being a total curb stomp, so do you set up to play smart or do you set yourself up to be a harvest of tears, being limited to only the systems you can defend makes the curb stomp so much more likely and I really wonder just how that will pan out with destructible stations. You know the answer because that is why you guys joined the Imperium, before Aegis Sov that is true, but you understood that!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#172 - 2015-08-02 12:11:16 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
These guys are doing it right up until PL and the Imperium hell camp every single one of their systems and break them in one swift and brutal campaign, which will be made even more brutal when stations can be destroyed.

However I like what I am seeing so far and that people who control space without using it are complaining.

Many of the Russians alliances operating around Stain still have a ton of people doing missions in Stain, they should be kicking them to work on the ADM.

EDIT: One thing I want to say on this is that a lot of those alliances need to create a buffer zone of systems and stations to get around the hell camp risk from one of the super powers, that is their additional cost so to speak. I am also interested to see just how far from the NPC areas PL will move for a campaign, will be interesting to see.

And a final off topic comment, good catch to the Initiative on that NCDOT move, I have always had a certain level of respect for the Initiative.


But the point that is being so graphically, if unintentionally, illustrated by this thread is that sov space will now belong to the people who want it enough to keep fighting for it. PL may well come visit them, sure. How long will they stay and fight for it?


Yes you are right I do not disagree, however those alliances have to have a strategy to deal with the two super powers coming for good fights which us lessor mortals know as being a total curb stomp, so do you set up to play smart or do you set yourself up to be a harvest of tears, being limited to only the systems you can defend makes the curb stomp so much more likely and I really wonder just how that will pan out with destructible stations. You know the answer because that is why you guys joined the Imperium, before Aegis Sov that is true, but you understood that!


Well actually we keep our stuff in NPC 0.0 and pretty much always have done.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#173 - 2015-08-02 12:12:58 UTC
Icycle wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mordus' Ceptors, eh.

Make the most of trollsov.



All the last 7 systems we entosed were corm fleet. Get it right Cool. Its not troll sov its called guerilla tactics and not letting you breath.
I entosed one in a cruiser the other day and attempted to get a second Twisted


If you want it more than them, you'll deserve it and you'll get it.

If they care enough about a system to put a couple of RLML Caracals and a damp Keres into it, then you won't.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jenshae Chiroptera
#174 - 2015-08-02 12:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Malcanis wrote:
So any way, now that the buggy whip manufacturers have vented their pwecious feewings about allowing those nasty horrible auto-mobiles on the roads...
This is beneath you.
Show us where you stand on the "merits" of Fozzie SOV that have not already been shot down.
Malcanis wrote:
If you want it more than them, you'll deserve it and you'll get it.
If they care enough about a system to put a couple of RLML Caracals and a damp Keres into it, then you won't.
In other words, "Can you grief a system until they give up defending it or can you ECM until they give up griefing?"

I think at this point, you are harping on about the story you bought when Fozzie's team conceived this abortion and now you can't let it go.

"HTFU"
"We are hard and bored / not interested."

Dominion SOV took how long for half the player base to be bored of it? How many years?
Fozzie SOV has hit that point in three weeks.

It is SOV dumbed down and less engaging.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2015-08-02 12:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Icycle
Aiyshimin wrote:
Tappits wrote:
UAxDEATH wrote:
Alliances signed petition




What wars have any of these people done with the new sov system that lets them make informed ideas on how to fix a sov system that’s just over two weeks old that will affect every single person in null sec?
What has any one done in the new sov system other than get some unused systems attacked?
None of these people speak for me.


None whatsoever. Furthermore, Garst Tyrell has signed this RMT rental whine without any kind of mandate from the alliance, and he is acting here as a single player, and as such his personal opinions in no way represent the official stance of Triumvirate alliance.


Now, thats embarasing. It did not have approval of the alliance. I guess scratch that name from the list then Smile
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#176 - 2015-08-02 12:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Teckos Pech wrote:
I too can cherry pick data points....

Let me see,

Goonswarm: 13954/103 = 135.5 pilots/system
FCON: 4896/80 = 61.2 pilots/system
Co2: 2857/34 = 84 pilots/system
Get Off My Lawn: = 2121/53 = 40 pilots/system
EXE: 1221/14 = 87 pilots/system

Compare this too Legion of Death, Shadow of Death, Brothers of Tangra and we see vastly smaller numbers as in the teens or even single digits for Shadow of Death.

You should hang out with RU community sometimes. If someone thought that "textbook goon" had a low opinion on average "pubbie", he'd have a lot to re-evaluate after the experience.

And you guys are suggesting them to not just tolerate, but recruit such people. Jokes on you.

Roll

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#177 - 2015-08-02 13:09:09 UTC
EVE community is a strange.
Saying "a peaceful mining barge of a new player must be immune to the attack of a T1 destroyer" is hilarious tears, and the reply is HTFU & L2P.
Saying "the trillion ISK printing machine of the 1000+ strong empires ran by the oldest players must be immune to the attack of an entosis ship" is a serious suggestion and get +1s.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#178 - 2015-08-02 13:36:45 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
EVE community is a strange.
Saying "a peaceful mining barge of a new player must be immune to the attack of a T1 destroyer" is hilarious tears, and the reply is HTFU & L2P.
Saying "the trillion ISK printing machine of the 1000+ strong empires ran by the oldest players must be immune to the attack of an entosis ship" is a serious suggestion and get +1s.


And you just showed what a silly bean you are, the thing about mining barges and exhumers is that their tank should be able to tak a single T1 destroyer until Concord arrive in a 0.5 system, personally I would make it about 4 T1 destroyers in a 0.5 system. There you go requires a team approach which is what Eve is all about, those people can now go HTFU and play as a team..., wait that only applies to mission runners and the like as they keep sprouting on and on in the forums, facepalm and all that!

I agree with you on the second part of your post, these people deserve to lose their space, I was shocked at TRI signing on to that but found it to be an out of touch CEO, what ho and all that. I am in Stain at the moment and I see loads of these people running level 4 missions, including the mission alt of the leader of the Soviet-Union alliance, their crying is so funny when their leaders can't even do the grind...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#179 - 2015-08-02 13:41:12 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Many of the Russians alliances operating around Stain still have a ton of people doing missions in Stain, they should be kicking them to work on the ADM.

pvesov, the hero we deserve


What you mean strategic work to enable your PvP group to do their job easier, you should go speak to your alliance leader again, he certainly understands it!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Redwyne Vyruk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2015-08-02 13:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Redwyne Vyruk
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
EVE community is a strange.
Saying "a peaceful mining barge of a new player must be immune to the attack of a T1 destroyer" is hilarious tears, and the reply is HTFU & L2P.
Saying "the trillion ISK printing machine of the 1000+ strong empires ran by the oldest players must be immune to the attack of an entosis ship" is a serious suggestion and get +1s.


we asked tweaks to make sov matters less frustrating and more managable by both attacker and defender and to eliminate trollceptors.

Does this make our empires immune? No

Does this makes Sov Warfare far better? Yes

Can you read what we wrote? No

Do you just want to random flame and feel considered? Yes

PS i agree CCP should help new players too btw