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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2181 - 2015-07-15 21:52:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

The means change, but the meaning is the same. It is PvP.


No, it's not, because it's not a player doing the fighting. "player versus player", not "player vs invincible NPCs"

Quit asking for NPCs to do your job for you, and be a real player for once.

Looks like Chunks needs to do one of two things
  • Stop taking the meds, they're giving her delusions
  • Start taking the meds, to stop the delusions.

    • In no way is that PvP, it's PvE.


    I had a Drill Sergeant put it well once.

    "You are either smoking too much weed, or not enough weed. But either way you are not smoking the right amount of weed."

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
    #2182 - 2015-07-15 21:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

    The means change, but the meaning is the same. It is PvP.


    No, it's not, because it's not a player doing the fighting. "player versus player", not "player vs invincible NPCs"

    Quit asking for NPCs to do your job for you, and be a real player for once.

    Looks like Chunks needs to do one of two things
  • Stop taking the meds, they're giving her delusions
  • Start taking the meds, to stop the delusions.

    • In no way is that PvP, it's PvE.


    You warp to a ice belt. All rocks are gone because a player swept them with a multibox fleet. Is that PvP?
    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?
    You manufactured a bunch of modules. You try to sell them but the lowest sell orders are below your running cost, so you either lose money or don't sell the modules. Is that PvP?

    When a player outplays another player, that is PvP. The means are different, but the meaning is the same.

    Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
    0bama Barack Hussein
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #2183 - 2015-07-15 22:01:25 UTC
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


    I had a Drill Sergeant put it well once.

    "You are either smoking too much weed, or not enough weed. But either way you are not smoking the right amount of weed."


    At the gates my "Drill Sergeant" saw my eyes and asked what I´m on, I said i had nothing on anymore.

    He carried on to next.
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #2184 - 2015-07-15 22:02:27 UTC
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

    You warp to a ice belt. All rocks are gone because a player swept them with a multibox fleet. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Quote:

    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.


    Quote:

    You manufactured a bunch of modules. You try to sell them but the lowest sell orders are below your running cost, so you either lose money or don't sell the modules. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Get it yet?

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #2185 - 2015-07-15 22:05:00 UTC
    0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


    I had a Drill Sergeant put it well once.

    "You are either smoking too much weed, or not enough weed. But either way you are not smoking the right amount of weed."


    At the gates my "Drill Sergeant" saw my eyes and asked what I´m on, I said i had nothing on anymore.

    He carried on to next.


    Heh, they asked that to a guy in our platoon, and he said "I'm high on life, Drill Sergeant."

    The push ups were worth it, it was funny as hell.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Angelica Dreamstar
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #2186 - 2015-07-15 22:07:37 UTC
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

    The means change, but the meaning is the same. It is PvP.


    No, it's not, because it's not a player doing the fighting. "player versus player", not "player vs invincible NPCs"

    Quit asking for NPCs to do your job for you, and be a real player for once.

    Looks like Chunks needs to do one of two things
  • Stop taking the meds, they're giving her delusions
  • Start taking the meds, to stop the delusions.

    • In no way is that PvP, it's PvE.


    You warp to a ice belt. All rocks are gone because a player swept them with a multibox fleet. Is that PvP?
    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?
    You manufactured a bunch of modules. You try to sell them but the lowest sell orders are below your running cost, so you either lose money or don't sell the modules. Is that PvP?

    When a player outplays another player, that is PvP. The means are different, but the meaning is the same.

    I bet you once said that suicide ganking isn't PvP. Lol

    bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

    -- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #2187 - 2015-07-15 22:08:25 UTC
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

    You warp to a ice belt. All rocks are gone because a player swept them with a multibox fleet. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Quote:

    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.


    Quote:

    You manufactured a bunch of modules. You try to sell them but the lowest sell orders are below your running cost, so you either lose money or don't sell the modules. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Get it yet?
    Just for Chunks I'll reiterate the point that the important word is PLAYER, no NPCs were directly involved in any of the scenarios that she proposed.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #2188 - 2015-07-15 22:10:23 UTC
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

    You warp to a ice belt. All rocks are gone because a player swept them with a multibox fleet. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Quote:

    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.


    Quote:

    You manufactured a bunch of modules. You try to sell them but the lowest sell orders are below your running cost, so you either lose money or don't sell the modules. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Get it yet?
    Just for Chunks I'll reiterate the point that the important word is PLAYER, no NPCs were directly involved in any of the scenarios that she proposed.


    "No NPCs were harmed in the making of this meme"

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
    #2189 - 2015-07-15 22:13:45 UTC
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

    You warp to a ice belt. All rocks are gone because a player swept them with a multibox fleet. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Quote:

    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.


    Quote:

    You manufactured a bunch of modules. You try to sell them but the lowest sell orders are below your running cost, so you either lose money or don't sell the modules. Is that PvP?


    Another player did that, not an NPC.

    Get it yet?
    Just for Chunks I'll reiterate the point that the important word is PLAYER, no NPCs were directly involved in any of the scenarios that she proposed.


    Yes, specially when ghost sites blow up. Roll

    Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #2190 - 2015-07-15 22:19:30 UTC
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    Quote:
    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?
    Yes, specially when ghost sites blow up. Roll
    If it explodes in your face because a player triggered the timer and left, how is an NPC directly involved in that particular action?

    I'm going to leave this 90's classic here for you, it seems appropriate considering your point of view.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    Angelica Dreamstar
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #2191 - 2015-07-15 22:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    Yes, specially when ghost sites blow up. Roll

    When a PLAYER triggers the timer and it blows up in another player's face, then what do we call it? Lol

    A player triggering a timer is like him setting up a bomb. NPCs coming and blowing up another player, or the whole place exploding, doesn't matter. It was the player who lit the fuse and the mechanic was provided by the game itself. It's content to consume.

    The NPCs behave in a mechanical fashion, completely predictable and linear. In your idea though, the NPC would actually fight the player. YOU might send out the NPC, but that's not really PvP. You triggering a bomb is not the same as you sending out a robot to do your work! That's the difference! When you delegate, you don't actually do anything but delegating.

    So in this case it's Player vs. Delegation, which sounds funny but I like this ending. Lol

    bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

    -- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #2192 - 2015-07-15 22:26:07 UTC
    Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
    When you delegate, you don't actually do anything but delegating.


    The really messed up thing is that Chunks, and most carebears, really do think that should be their barrier of entry.

    Push a button, and send invincible NPCs with Concord level webs, scrams and jams at anyone who ever declared a wardec. If people wonder why I don't consider them to be real players, Chunk's last few days of posting should hopefully clear that up for everybody.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Jenshae Chiroptera
    #2193 - 2015-07-16 00:01:46 UTC
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    ... and gives PvErs the means to oppose PvPrs by doing PvE.
    Okay, I think I have decrypted your thoughts.
    Guys!
    Good news!
    I think I know what Chunks wants in life!

    You know how you can play that FIFA game and control the little guy running on the field, right?
    There is also a game called Soccer Manager, where you fiddle with spread sheets, numbers, redecorate the stadium bathrooms and just get told the scores of your teams.

    I think Chunks wants to play a Farcebook version of, "EVE Manager."

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
    Sgt Ocker
    What Corp is it
    #2194 - 2015-07-16 05:59:30 UTC
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    The thickness!!
    Do not worry. Some things can not affect you.
    (In Chess, the player moves their own piece (ship) and kills the opponent's piece (ship). Only complete eegits would watch two AI playing for them as anything other than a demonstration on how to play).


    And you also don't get it.

    A Knight doesn't physically destroy a Rook. Just removes it from the board as per the rules. It's not about a life bar vs another life bar, but about a rule: a piece landing on a square occupied by a piece of different color will remove that piece from the board.

    Combat is the same, what is gone is the exchange of hitpoints.

    So picture EVE:

    My ship kills your ship (hitpoints versus hitpoints, life bar versus life bar).
    My NPC kills your NPC (rule: a successful removal mission will remove a NPC unless the NPC is targetted by a successful rescue mission).
    My ship kills your NPC. (rule: a succesful removal mission, et cetera)
    My NPC kills your ship. (rule: a loaded NPC can discharge on an asset owned by another player unless that player can discharge a previously loaded NPC)

    The means change, but the meaning is the same. It is PvP. And it generates PvE for those who don't care about PvP. And gives PvErs the means to oppose PvPrs by doing PvE.

    Ok so what you seem to be asking for is that NPC's act like drones. You can direct them to a target that is trying to kill you. (won't help vs determined gankers btw)

    So why not, if you want to pvp while doing pve use other players as extra fire power.

    Picture this;
    Player A is running a mission, using a nice bling fit mission boat. (call it bait)
    Players B, C, D and E enter system and see bling, decide they want to kill bling and probe it down.

    Player A has 2 options - Warp out, dock up and wait them out OR have friends in a fleet docked up (or running other missions in system) ready to come and kill B, C, D and E.

    Simply asking for NPC's to act like drones is somewhat silly but if you play with others you have all the extra firepower you might need.

    -- - -- - -- - -- - --

    My opinions are mine.

      If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

    It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
    Sgt Ocker
    What Corp is it
    #2195 - 2015-07-16 06:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
    Been thinking about this for a while;

    Personally, I'd like to see Fighters and Fighter Bombers removed from Supers and Carriers, to be replaced with player controlled ships. Super lands on grid, 15 player controlled ships launch from it and the fight is on.
    Clone vat bays would need to be modified so the fleet travelling with the super is already aboard their respective ships when it lands and just undock from it like undocking from a station or outpost.

    Titan's could be used in the same way, have the fleet deployed to your titan, pick a target system, jump in, fleet undocks and away you go.

    Titan's and Supers could get a new module, "Battle Config" - Highslot module - 200k PG, 250 CPU.
    5,000,0000 Shield (like a pos shield so fleet members can use it) 5KM radius
    10 min cycle time (25 second activation delay, reduces to 5 seconds with lvl 5 skill) no auto repeat
    1,000 Strontium per cycle (500 per cycle with lvl 5 skill)
    Fleet bonuses per Command Ships. (fitting links is the way to go)
    1 Extra link fitted per level (Titan skill)
    200% bonus to remote energy transfer, shield and armor repairers, range and 50% reduction to cycle time.
    Disallow remote assistance
    Disallow warp
    Disable jump drive
    Disallow activation of offensive modules (can't use it on a titan to be an immune killing machine using Doomsdays)
    Ewar disallows activation (if you tackle it before the module activates or between cycles - it is a sitting duck)
    Can not be deployed within 100KM of station, outpost, gate or pos.
    Can not be deployed within 50KM of another similar module.

    Carriers could have a similar module but with less shield, 2.5KM radius, 2,500,000 shield.

    Shields of the module could be attacked directly by shooting the ship it is activated on but would be immune to Doomsdays. So you can directly attack the ship but it has an extra 5 million shields to kill before you start hurting the ship itself. Better to kill the fleet with it, then concentrate on the capital.

    Yes a capital deployed in this fashion, that can't move or shoot back itself would be a nice juicy target for PL (and other groups with many supers). I don't know the answer to that except maybe, those super groups would see the benefit of using their assets differently.

    Thoughts?
    (aside from sounds dumb, etc)

    My opinions are mine.

      If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

    It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
    #2196 - 2015-07-16 06:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    Quote:
    You warp into a ghost site. Seconds later, it blows in your face because a player set triggered the timer and left. Is that PvP?
    Yes, specially when ghost sites blow up. Roll
    If it explodes in your face because a player triggered the timer and left, how is an NPC directly involved in that particular action?

    I'm going to leave this 90's classic here for you, it seems appropriate considering your point of view.


    CONCORD holds your ship static and defenseless for "interrogaiton" because A PLAYER worked his standing with a NPC and A PLAYER targetted YOU for that specific NPC action.

    NPC is just a mean, but it's all A PLAYER's doing.

    He may have picked a ship and blow your ship.

    Instead he picked a NPC and caught you.

    You may fit a tank on your ship. Or you may have a NPC ready to release you from NPC effects.

    It's just PvP by other means. With the collateral of new procedural and player-driven PvE.

    Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
    Ima Wreckyou
    The Conference Elite
    Safety.
    #2197 - 2015-07-16 10:33:37 UTC
    Hello! Is this the "bad ideas" thread?

    Evil RatKid
    Jenshae Chiroptera
    #2198 - 2015-07-16 10:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    ... CONCORD holds your ship static and defenseless for "interrogaiton" because A PLAYER worked his standing with a NPC and A PLAYER targetted YOU for that specific NPC action. ....
    You do realise how much Code would love this? Roll

    Essentially, you are asking for NPCs to hold someone's arms while you punch them in the guts ... because you can't make friends?

    CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

    Not even once

    EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
    Angelica Dreamstar
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #2199 - 2015-07-16 11:01:42 UTC
    Chunks posts are so hilarious, we should make a seperate thread were we post one brilliant idea of her daily! Lol

    Or maybe it should be a special feature on minerbumping! Lol

    bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

    -- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
    #2200 - 2015-07-16 13:00:40 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
    ... CONCORD holds your ship static and defenseless for "interrogaiton" because A PLAYER worked his standing with a NPC and A PLAYER targetted YOU for that specific NPC action. ....
    You do realise how much Code would love this? Roll

    Essentially, you are asking for NPCs to hold someone's arms while you punch them in the guts ... because you can't make friends?


    Ddo you think i'm stupid? As I already said, the targeted player must have agressed the attacker. FAI, a valid kill right should be active in order to use that function on a player.

    I-NPCs would be used to follow on PvP, not to start it.

    Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you