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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#2141 - 2015-07-15 13:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
While you are moaning about things and hiding from "lame people", I'm rolling this Swag Boat in wicked creek, avoiding neutrals and making isk (i'm sorry, "Dank Isk", sorry Reddit Bros for not getting that right Big smile ).
If you want to get your reddit slang right, you need to make Space Juden references, homie.
These two remind me of Charles and Camilla trying some teenage slang.
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... Pure PvE players are really silly believing PvPers only PvP. ...
There are PVPers who do not PVE at all.
They function on loot dropped, SRP programs and buy PLEX for cash to top up their ISK if those first two aren't covering their ships.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2142 - 2015-07-15 13:31:17 UTC
Two and a half hour downtime and still no time frame for "server online".

Sumfin bad apen to da masheen.



11.30PM - Time for bed.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2143 - 2015-07-15 13:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
100% accurate. PVP hardcores need to realize that they need PVE players, and PVE players need to realize that they need someone to destroy things to create demand.
I prefer all-round players to carebears.

Hey there is this **** again in your quote.

Reality:

PvE players only have chars not doing PvP, PvP players have chars doing PvE as well. Conclusion: getting rid of pure PvE players isn't a bad thing at all, because all bases are being covered by the rest anyway.

Pure PvE players are really silly believing PvPers only PvP. PvPers do PvE as well, which means they do more stuff than pure PvErs. It's not rocket science.


Time to wave again The Chart (good that I Imgur'ed it...)

That's what subscribers do in Tranquility with all their chars and accounts. Only 30% do a bit of everything ingame. The rest are focused on PvP (8%) or PvE (50%) or socializing (12%).

My signature already summarizes it all.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2144 - 2015-07-15 13:50:43 UTC
The CCP conundrum:

What your customers do most:

- PvE
- >0.5 sec space
- Solo

What do the customers who stay subscribed longer:

- PvP
- <0.5 sec space
- multiplayer

What your product is bad at:

- PvE
- >0.5 sec space
- Solo

What your product is good at:

- PvP
- <0.5 sec space
- multiplayer

You have limited time and resources since you're losing customers all round.

Shall you:
- focus on the minority that stays subscribed longer, improving what your product is good at it?
- increase the subscription time of the majority who quit sooner, improving what your product is bad at it?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2145 - 2015-07-15 13:51:44 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
100% accurate. PVP hardcores need to realize that they need PVE players, and PVE players need to realize that they need someone to destroy things to create demand.
I prefer all-round players to carebears.

Hey there is this **** again in your quote.

Reality:

PvE players only have chars not doing PvP, PvP players have chars doing PvE as well. Conclusion: getting rid of pure PvE players isn't a bad thing at all, because all bases are being covered by the rest anyway.

Pure PvE players are really silly believing PvPers only PvP. PvPers do PvE as well, which means they do more stuff than pure PvErs. It's not rocket science.


Time to wave again The Chart (good that I Imgur'ed it...)

That's what susbcribers do in Tranquility with all their chars and accounts. Only 30% do a bit of everything ingame. The rest are focused on PvP (8%) or PvE (50%) or socializing (12%).

My signature already summarizes it all.


Most hilarious thing about CCP's chart there is that Aggressors tend to do less time undocking than professional carebears lol.

Also, Traditional players are listed as the ones doing the least amount of pvp relatively... interesting.

But yes, most people do a bit of everything... we need the balance.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2146 - 2015-07-15 13:54:33 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
While you are moaning about things and hiding from "lame people", I'm rolling this Swag Boat in wicked creek, avoiding neutrals and making isk (i'm sorry, "Dank Isk", sorry Reddit Bros for not getting that right Big smile ).
If you want to get your reddit slang right, you need to make Space Juden references, homie.
These two remind me of Charles and Camilla trying some teenage slang.
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... Pure PvE players are really silly believing PvPers only PvP. ...
There are PVPers who do not PVE at all.
They function on loot dropped, SRP programs and buy PLEX for cash to top up their ISK if those first two aren't covering their ships.


For some reason those two, plus to an extend some others keep failing to understand that posters like you and I are calling for BALANCE. We understand that PVErs will PVP from time to time, and PVPrs will fund themselves with PVE. We understand the system works when people need to build things because people have destroyed things.

But yet they still come here and make claims that WE are the ones talking in absolutes... odd

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2147 - 2015-07-15 14:55:58 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
For some reason those two, plus to an extend some others keep failing to understand that posters like you and I are calling for BALANCE. We understand that PVErs will PVP from time to time, and PVPrs will fund themselves with PVE. We understand the system works when people need to build things because people have destroyed things.

But yet they still come here and make claims that WE are the ones talking in absolutes... odd
While it may or may not be true that you are calling for balance, self serving players like Chunks are using your arguments to support their claims and making you look like you are calling for absolutes.

Without Chunks and her ilk using your arguments to try and pervert the game into WoW in space you would probably get a more friendly reception to your points.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2148 - 2015-07-15 14:58:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
For some reason those two, plus to an extend some others keep failing to understand that posters like you and I are calling for BALANCE. We understand that PVErs will PVP from time to time, and PVPrs will fund themselves with PVE. We understand the system works when people need to build things because people have destroyed things.

But yet they still come here and make claims that WE are the ones talking in absolutes... odd
While it may or may not be true that you are calling for balance, self serving players like Chunks are using your arguments to support their claims and making you look like you are calling for absolutes.

Without Chunks and her ilk using your arguments to try and pervert the game into WoW in space you would probably get a more friendly reception to your points.



Finally I realize who is meant by Chunks, but the Why is beyond me.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2149 - 2015-07-15 15:00:54 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Finally I realize who is meant by Chunks, but the Why is beyond me.
It's far easier to give her a nickname than to roll your face across the keyboard trying to type Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2150 - 2015-07-15 15:20:03 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Most hilarious thing about CCP's chart there is that Aggressors tend to do less time undocking than professional carebears lol.
Not a lot of people try playing station games with Angel Cartel. Big smile

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Shall you:
- focus on the minority that stays subscribed longer, improving what your product is good at it?
- increase the subscription time of the majority who quit sooner, improving what your product is bad at it?

From their own presentations, it sounds like they're trying to get the best of both worlds by pushing PvE players to PvP. A noble goal, though I wonder if taking 'option 3' makes CCP a Renegade Kung Fu Cop.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#2151 - 2015-07-15 15:49:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The CCP conundrum:

What your customers do most:

- PvE
- >0.5 sec space
- Solo

What do the customers who stay subscribed longer:

- PvP
- <0.5 sec space
- multiplayer

What your product is bad at:

- PvE
- >0.5 sec space
- Solo

What your product is good at:

- PvP
- <0.5 sec space
- multiplayer

You have limited time and resources since you're losing customers all round.

Shall you:
- focus on the minority that stays subscribed longer, improving what your product is good at it?
- increase the subscription time of the majority who quit sooner, improving what your product is bad at it?


This. Make it sticky and close the thread ;)

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#2152 - 2015-07-15 15:55:13 UTC
Lower sub cost
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2153 - 2015-07-15 16:24:54 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Finally I realize who is meant by Chunks, but the Why is beyond me.
It's far easier to give her a nickname than to roll your face across the keyboard trying to type Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
I thought I recognised you signature. Didn't realise we have an Ankh-Morporkian that fell through a space-time rift. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2154 - 2015-07-15 16:28:39 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
While you are moaning about things and hiding from "lame people", I'm rolling this Swag Boat in wicked creek, avoiding neutrals and making isk (i'm sorry, "Dank Isk", sorry Reddit Bros for not getting that right Big smile ).
If you want to get your reddit slang right, you need to make Space Juden references, homie.
These two remind me of Charles and Camilla trying some teenage slang.
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... Pure PvE players are really silly believing PvPers only PvP. ...
There are PVPers who do not PVE at all.
They function on loot dropped, SRP programs and buy PLEX for cash to top up their ISK if those first two aren't covering their ships.

Yes, and still there are far more characters from "PvP+PvE"rs than from "pure PvE"ers, simply because the former engages in far more different activities than the latter. And I still laugh at all those who believe that simply having more people in the game is all there is to it, not considering the low quality of certain people. Reddit and BRAVE should be a warning sign.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#2155 - 2015-07-15 16:59:31 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Yes, and still there are far more characters from "PvP+PvE"rs than from "pure PvE"ers, simply because the former engages in far more different activities than the latter. And I still laugh at all those who believe that simply having more people in the game is all there is to it, not considering the low quality of certain people. Reddit and BRAVE should be a warning sign.


You are hugely underestimating the number of terrible players who can hide behind a well-organized alliance or even a good FC. There are thousands of people who only play the game when they're told to, at which point they log in and do what they're told, then click a PAP link and congratulate themselves on their contribution to ~space relevance~. I would be surprised if more than 10% of the player base is actually competent. More like 5%. And to be clear, that does not include me. I freely admit that I'm a terrible scrub.

BRAVE might be terrible, but at least they're trying to play the game on an individual level. At least they're out and learning. One of the problems this game has is that it is simultaneously proud of its depth and prone to kicking anyone who struggles out of the pool. It should be OK to make mistakes. It should be OK to have to acclimate. It should be OK to learn the hard way that EVE isn't like any other MMO, that "EVE is a PVP game" doesn't mean it's like the lobby shooters you know. It should be OK to fail, because failing, not reading or mimicking, is how you really learn.

Kicking people out as "low quality" because they don't immediately know what they've gotten themselves into is dumb.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2156 - 2015-07-15 18:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
. And I still laugh at all those who believe that simply having more people in the game is all there is to it, not considering the low quality of certain people. Reddit and BRAVE should be a warning sign.


Look.

If Elite Dangerous / Star Citizen get hundreds of thousands or even million(s) of players, and EvE keeps at steady levels of few tens of thousands, which game do you think will attract more people eventually?

Maybe even those that would have preferred EvE out of those, but got turned off by numbers even before joining the game?

I understand want to have certain kind of people here, but it is simply bad business to turn away paying customers and money, at least right away.

Keep them interested about PvE for a few month subscription, get revenue for game development and prey for hunters.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2157 - 2015-07-15 19:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I thought I recognised you signature. Didn't realise we have an Ankh-Morporkian that fell through a space-time rift. Blink
It's all the fault of Twoflower.

There I was minding my own business and suddenly I get dragged into a game, played by The Lady and Offler (wipes spittle from keyboard) The Crocodile God, involving a damned tourist in an hawaiian aloha shirt and an incompetent Wizard with a knack for avoiding death.

Long story short, I got pushed over the edge of the disc and found a Reaper before I ran out of breath.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
kosmicheski
Max range shipping
#2158 - 2015-07-15 19:05:13 UTC
Remove the subscription charge.

Keep the PLEX as activate premium account.

Premium accounts learn skills twice as fast and gets bigger bounties when killing rats, mine twice as much per/ cycle etc.
Add instant training of the skill for AUR.
Remove moon mining!
MAKE MONEY!! Hire better devs and fix the damn game!
The most boring part about eve is the TIME sync. Make possible for things to happen faster for $.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2159 - 2015-07-15 19:25:01 UTC
kosmicheski wrote:


Premium accounts learn skills twice as fast and gets bigger bounties when killing rats, mine twice as much per/ cycle etc.
Add instant training of the skill for AUR.
Remove moon mining!
MAKE MONEY!! Hire better devs and fix the damn game!
The most boring part about eve is the TIME sync. Make possible for things to happen faster for $.


"Pay for win"...

Has been discussed before here, never gonna happen, likely over half of players would just quit.
kosmicheski
Max range shipping
#2160 - 2015-07-15 19:35:49 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
kosmicheski wrote:


Premium accounts learn skills twice as fast and gets bigger bounties when killing rats, mine twice as much per/ cycle etc.
Add instant training of the skill for AUR.
Remove moon mining!
MAKE MONEY!! Hire better devs and fix the damn game!
The most boring part about eve is the TIME sync. Make possible for things to happen faster for $.


"Pay for win"...

Has been discussed before here, never gonna happen, likely over half of players would just quit.



Win what ? Free time ?
WOW :)
I will pay for that every time.