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[Aegis] More balance! - Ishtars, DDAs and the Tempest

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CCP Rise
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-06-22 15:29:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
One more post for the Aegis release covering a couple more small balance changes.

First of all, the Ishtar. In our ongoing to quest to find out exactly what it will take to move the Ishtar off its throne as the most dominant PVP ship in EVE, we are going to make the following changes:
  • -1 mid slot, +1 low slot
  • Decrease in mass from 1,100,000 to 1060000
  • Decrease in max velocity from 185m/s to 175m/s
  • Agility going from .52 to .565
  • Power grid lowered from 780 to 740

  • Overall these changes should put a lot of pressure on speed based, shield fits (especially those using over-sized afterburners), forcing a tougher choice between the speed you get with shields and the survivability you get with armor.

    Next up, Drone Damage Amplifiers. While the Ishtar has really taken the spotlight as the most oppressive ship around, drone focused hulls are extremely strong across the board. From the Algos and the Tristan, to the Vexor and the Gila, to the Dominix and the Armageddon we see higher damage output and activity than the competition. For that reason we are going to lower the % damage bonus from DDA's just slightly. Numbers as follows:

    Drone Damage Amplifier I - 15% (was 16%)
    Drone Damage Amplifier II - 20.5% (was 23%)

    Dread Guristas Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
    Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
    Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
    Sentient Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)

    Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 24.5% (was (26.5%)
    Unit F-435454's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 25.15% (was 27.15%)
    Unit P-343554's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 25.8% (was 27.8%)
    Unit W-634's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 26.5% (was 28.5%)

    And let's finish on a high note, the Tempest! We are looking at a wider set of Battleship and Battlecruiser tweaks that will probably come in a later release but part of the package was a Tempest buff and we see no reason to hold back on that while we pin down the rest of the changes.

    We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level.

    Will the Ishtar be balanced after this? Is the Drone Damage Amp nerf too much? What will you do with a 950 turret dps Tempest? Let us know!


    Thanatos Marathon
    #2 - 2015-06-22 15:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Thanatos Marathon
    Mah DDAs! *sadface* (minor change, shouldn't be that big a deal, will need to do maths).

    Edit: Confirmed, not a big deal to other drone boats. Just enough to bring them back in line a bit.

    +1 on DDA changes.
    Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
    #3 - 2015-06-22 15:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
    Damn, second! :)

    I like the Tempest change and I hope the other BS get something similar.
    Wrik Hoover
    Pandemic Horde Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #4 - 2015-06-22 15:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Wrik Hoover
    not ok

    do you know why everyone and his mother flys ishtars ?
    Because you sit at 70km **** out dps and when you lose more then 2 isthars you just run away and no one can ever stop you

    remove the 5% dmg sentry bonus on the ishtar instead
    To mare
    Advanced Technology
    #5 - 2015-06-22 15:36:09 UTC
    OMG some tempest love finally
    Mimiko Severovski
    Zero Fun Allowed
    #6 - 2015-06-22 15:37:01 UTC
    So more nerfs to caps (supers/carriers).
    When is fatigue getting fixed btw?
    Aplysia Vejun
    Children of Agasul
    #7 - 2015-06-22 15:37:06 UTC
    Make the slowest HAC even slower. Great idea! BC-Speed is nice! Under 1300m/s in an armor fit with a mwd.
    Exploration Frontier inc
    #8 - 2015-06-22 15:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue

    I was expecting a removal of sentries bonuses from the Ishtar, just saying. You're going in the nice direction but you're just chipping away little bits here and there at the Ishtar without making substantial changes.

    A slower Ishtar isn't any less broken and is less fun to fly.
    And you are nerfing its damage in the process by penalizing every single drone boat. Were they really all that OP??

    Lets recap the Ishtar shall we:

    • No fitting sink from guns
    • Selectable range and damage
    • Insane bonus to tracking AND optimal
    • BS sized weapon
    • Ability to detach source of damage from ship position. (!) Meaning you have to pick between going for its sentries and doing no kills, and not even damaging their DPS because they will just drop others, or going after the Ishtars and loose a lot of stuff in the process
    • Insane sentry HPs, resistance to smartbombs, bombs, and prolonged fire. Not to mention the chore of having to target every sentry
    • Increased server lag
    • Easy-as-pie 10-man instant alpha

    Please, who designed this? Lol Why is this still a thing?

    Remember this?

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    Roy Henry
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #9 - 2015-06-22 15:38:44 UTC
    Why not just remove sentry bonuses from the hull instead of nerfing sentries, drones, and ishtars themselves? How much collateral damage has been caused to all other drone and sentry ships trying to fix this issue when simply removing the overpowered bonuses from the ship would have removed the sentry Ishtar in the first place?
    Fast Flow in Slow Motion
    White Sky.
    #10 - 2015-06-22 15:40:00 UTC
    Not sure if that DDA nerf is needed.
    big miker
    Handsome Millionaire Playboys
    #11 - 2015-06-22 15:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: big miker
    Thank you CCP Rise!
    Very good changes. Ishtar change is going to heavily alter 0.0 fleets. AHAC style Ishtar isn't going to be as good as the shield version for sure.

    Tempest buff +1
    Small tweak, but it's a good start.

    Edit: 950 dps turret Tempest sure, but it doesn't get any application or range bonuses
    Liga Freier Terraner
    Northern Coalition.
    #12 - 2015-06-22 15:40:10 UTC
    Will the TFI get the same ROF bonus? if you only give it to the tempest TFI will be worse than the T1 version.
    Order of the Red Kestrel
    #13 - 2015-06-22 15:40:12 UTC
    These are great changes, exactly what the game needs. Thank you CCP Rise. Drone based ships were doing better than close range turret DPS out to 60km, and this will help curtail that, also almost every single drone based ship in the game right now is very strong if not borderline overpowered, and I still think drones will be really competitive after these changes.

    Contributer to Eve is Easy:

    Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)

    Airi Cho
    Wrecking Machine.
    #14 - 2015-06-22 15:40:21 UTC
    Aplysia Vejun wrote:
    Make the slowest HAC even slower. Great idea! BC-Speed is nice! Under 1300m/s in an armor fit with a mwd.

    We all will be so sad to see ishtars less.
    Jackie Fisher
    Syrkos Technologies
    #15 - 2015-06-22 15:40:49 UTC
    Problem: Ishtar
    Solution: Nerf everything!

    Just as well you guys didn't chose medicine as a career:
    Patient: I've got an ingrowing toenail
    Dr CCP : No problem, we'll just amputate both legs, hmm, better take the arms as well just to be safe. Not sure you really need two eyes either

    Fear God and Thread Nought

    Devara Biotech
    #16 - 2015-06-22 15:42:27 UTC
    Overall great changes, but be careful that you don't end up nerfing to speed of the ishtar too much.

    Also I like the DDA nerfs, it will bring most drone ships back in line.


    CCP Rise
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #17 - 2015-06-22 15:42:28 UTC
    For now the TFI will not get the same bonus change. We'll see how this shakes out and evaluate after.


    Skyler Hawk
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #18 - 2015-06-22 15:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Skyler Hawk
    We are looking at a wider set of Battleship and Battlecruiser tweaks that will probably come in a later release

    If the battlecruiser rebalance has been delayed, will the points cost of BCs and Navy BCs for the Alliance Tournament be reverted to their original levels?

    (ok this is slightly tangential to the topic of the OP)
    Cr Turist
    Arcana Noctis
    #19 - 2015-06-22 15:42:58 UTC
    Love the tempest buff.

    Ishtar needs to not be able to use battle ship weapons. that is its main issue unless you plan to let the vaga use battleship guns.

    for god sakes stop nerfing supers! come out with the capital changes and be done with it stop nickle and diming supers just cash the check.
    Dez Affinity
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #20 - 2015-06-22 15:43:59 UTC
    You guys don't have a clue what you're doing. You're just playing whack a mole until you get the desired results.
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