These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Carnyx release - General feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#961 - 2015-06-04 10:55:23 UTC
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :)

Question:

Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ?
Workout
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#962 - 2015-06-04 10:58:19 UTC
Hate the new icons.
Lubont
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#963 - 2015-06-04 11:00:27 UTC
Yesterday i let a destroyer run away from a large compound because i was thinking that is a wreck !
WTF you did with those icons? disgusting icons.
The icons can be nice for people that usually stay in station, docked, trading, manufacturing, but PVP or PVE players will never get used to this Shi.. of icon .
Yesterday all mi corp mates decided to end the roam, because of that icons, it wasnt playable at all, it was a mess, big big mess.
I still dont understand why change something that was working good? you sad in one post "because they were never changed",
what a stupid conclusion. I think is time to employ a shrink at CCP, obviously some of your employers need it. Ugh
Marok
New Eden Corporation 1488435599
#964 - 2015-06-04 11:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Marok
The jackdaw just cant stand up to anything close the the current t3 destroyers .

The svipul has 66% reduction in mwd sig radius + 33% resists in Both armour and shields.
Jackdaw has a 33% reduction in overall sig and +33% shield resists

the svipul can hit almost 4k in speed mode
Jackdaw can go 2k

Sviple can hit out to 40k+ with arty and do 300+ dps while doing 3k+ without links
Jackdaw can hit out to 70k 200+ dps but max speed is reduced to 1.5k without links

Where does this add up? yea missiles are great and there had to be a speed nerf to the jackdaw so it not the ultimate kiting ship but its tank dps and speed are extremely low even for a destroyer.

I mean there could be a 33% increase to shield boost amount with the defense mode instead of the 33% armour bonus to the svipul.

And the icons... I prefer the old ones below.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65332/1/Ship_Group_Icons.png

These are GREAT! varied widths and different enough so at a glance you can tell the ship type and size.
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#965 - 2015-06-04 11:05:42 UTC
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :)

Question:

Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ?


Yes.

I'd also like to be able to colour code it and colour code the dscanner read out :)
It would also help immensely if the chat windows could be border-less (so that only the actual text in would take up space) and some other other solution to displaying who's in them could be found.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#966 - 2015-06-04 11:12:30 UTC
Vila eNorvic wrote:
Lahnius wrote:
Steijn wrote:
Taru Audeles wrote:
btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here?


link works fine.


but it seems to be short a few icons ...

apparently this is the full list:

OMFG

And that one doesn't work either.

All I get is - {"sys": {"type": "Error", "id": "ParameterNotAllowed", "details": {"parameters": ["amp"]}}}

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Cat silth
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#967 - 2015-06-04 11:14:41 UTC
Red Deck wrote:
CCP Surge wrote:
Joia Crenca wrote:


Thanks for responding!

I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.


Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.

The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.

And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue.

In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment.

I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?

Wow.

Just wow.

So CCP knew their UI scaler was unable to scale pixel-sharp objects properly and yet considered it a good idea to push the new icons through?

CCP, have a long hard look at the old icons - the reason why nobody complained about how they looked, scaled or not, was that whoever designed them actually considered what your scaler could and couldn't do (I can't believe they would have been so cleverly designed just by coincidence). The shapes were chosen (and implemented) so that they would scale acceptably even with a crappy scaler.

THIS ALONE IS A REASON GOOD ENOUGH TO REVERT BACK TO THE OLD ICONS - at least until you can improve the UI scaler so that it scales sharp pixel-sized objects properly.

powerofflre night
Dirty Dozen Empire
#968 - 2015-06-04 11:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: powerofflre night
Icons are a bit tacky and confusing... on a 32in monitor things are a bit smeared. Rats look as if they have a rank symbol, if that's what the intent was; they should be in order, as in real life. Meaning more stripes for bigger the enemy. The icon change collaborates the old territorial beacon with other capsuleers ships now... very confusing for older pilots in battle. Other than that... pshh.
Lahnius
#969 - 2015-06-04 11:16:34 UTC
something to consider ...

the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".

the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.

the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.

multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.

introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.

proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.

multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.

this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.

yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.

what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.
Rumour Wayez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#970 - 2015-06-04 11:17:39 UTC
Workout wrote:
Hate the new icons.


The word hate is just not enough to express my feelings towards these new icons what next LolStraightSad emoticons for friendly neut and enemy statuses as mentioned in many post before this one ...

Dear CCP PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP FIXING WHAT IS NOT BROKE!! or in this case STOP BREAKING WHAT IS ALL READY FIXED >.<
powerofflre night
Dirty Dozen Empire
#971 - 2015-06-04 11:21:16 UTC
Lahnius wrote:
something to consider ...

the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".

the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.

the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.

multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.

introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.

proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.

multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.

this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.

yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.

what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.



Exactly, specific and to the point!
uhnboy ghost
Corporation 98237776
#972 - 2015-06-04 11:21:25 UTC
uhnboy ghost wrote:
24h since last login...
hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...

i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait.


46h since last login...
hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...

i check back in tomorrow again, hmm maybe do a big cleaning of my appartment while i wait.

//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png

Komercijala
Aura Solutions
#973 - 2015-06-04 11:30:09 UTC
icons are bad very very bad i cant recognize ships and structures
Ninja Jiggalo
Perkone
Caldari State
#974 - 2015-06-04 11:31:31 UTC
Lahnius wrote:
something to consider ...

the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".

the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.

the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.

multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.

introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.

proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.

multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.

this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.

yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.

what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.



Well Said! I have just returned to the game after a 6 month break ok fozzy sov is going to take a while to get my head around but i can live with that but these new icons hurt my head the simple solid shapes of before were high contrast and easly reconisable the new ones being just an outline are much harder to make out especaly as they are now no longer high contrast i for one am very dissapointed with you CCP for once please listen to the people that actualy pay your wages and do the right thing even if it it only to give us the option of which icon set to use!!
Tyr Dolorem
State War Academy
Caldari State
#975 - 2015-06-04 11:34:00 UTC
Paging CCP Claymore....
Lauren Transporter
Perkone
Caldari State
#976 - 2015-06-04 11:36:28 UTC
Overview Icons Are so bad change them back please
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#977 - 2015-06-04 11:40:15 UTC
Hate new icons. Centry guns look awful with too big icons. Battleship icon too small and looking like a cruiser or BC. Attack drones icon also too big, and look like frigs.
Nym Doe
Bear Bones Brigade
#978 - 2015-06-04 11:40:37 UTC
So,

Being playing pretty much solidly since icon-gate was released, determined to give it the best shot, the best benefit of the doubt possible.

Firstly, I'd like to thank the art department for conceptually trying to improve the game for all of our benefit.

In reality, however, it just hasn't worked - the icons dilute to such a degree the immediacy of the information the old icons provided to a point that makes the game that much worse to play.

Please revert.

Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#979 - 2015-06-04 11:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :)

Question:

Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ?


Yes.

I'd also like to be able to colour code it and colour code the dscanner read out :)
It would also help immensely if the chat windows could be border-less (so that only the actual text in would take up space) and some other other solution to displaying who's in them could be found.

All that and pretty much any other configuration options for the UI would be great. It would also be good if we can save, swap and share those configurations.

Give us the tools to improve our UI experience and optimise for our own playstyle and we will love you for it. Take away such tools after we have been happily using them for years (as was done in all of the recent UI botch jobs) and we will hate you for it.

Also, a more consistent approach to dealing with colour blindness would be great. I certainly support having a default UI setup and a suite of configuration options that is sympathetic to all such disabilities. But it is troubling to be first told that we cannot have colours where we would like them (and have had them for years) because of a disability that we do not personally suffer from and then a few months down the line see another botched UI overhaul which relies on the exact same colour differentiators we were told we could not have before. Configurability seems like the obvious answer to such issues, but configurability doesn't seem to be in vogue at CCP anymore.
Mark Yanning
Zeura Brotherhood
#980 - 2015-06-04 11:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Yanning
For God's sake new icons are something very terrible.

They are confusing, a frigate is like an old beacon, a destroyer like an empty wreck. The wreck icon (looted and not looted) is something just very ugly and not easy to understand at a first sight. The old system was working great giving all the information we needed. Now is a big mess. Especially for people involved in PvP.

I will not play until this stupid thing is fixed. Otherwise bye bye Eve

M

p.s.
Also: I found this link: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/UIModernization_Blog_Screenshot.jpg. new icons when they were developing on SISI, they look much better than the ones you implemented in the last patch. Why you changed that so far?