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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#961 - 2015-05-26 11:56:50 UTC
CCP are an ambitious and very talented company, they will not be content with 60k PCU forever, if it can be 150k PCU. Can servers hold it? P

I think they overextended on non-Eve projects and under-delivered on Incarna/WiS.

There is time to rectify that after the Summer expansions and the Citadel structure system.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#962 - 2015-05-26 12:16:44 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
just reading all these comments on this thread is one of the main reasons the competition is getting spikes in players. I swear eve has became the retirement home for old folks. you guys rather debate than demand change.

I cant wait for the competition (ED, SC) to be full on live so then I can watch how you guys debate on how you failed.


Think both ED and SC cater (mostly) to very different kind of player audience compared to EvE, they are games from cockpit (as just a starter about differences) and wont have as massive single battles (EvE used to have, not sure how new sov system will work in that), and EvE has also so deep and numerous player interaction with each others (in PvP and outside it) no other game seen yet.

If EvE will ignore it´s competition and focus on improving game and vision (of their strong points) they have now (instead of trying to emulate competition by example improving PvE that is in EvE actually just a means to fund PvP), i´m sure EvE will survive (even with smaller numbers, just as at early years).

Eve really has that core of faithful players (who will never leave, perhaps partly as they would have most to lose) in mostly null sec (and in PvP in general) and in trade/industry.
These (power hungry) people might have difficulties in ED to carve as an "independent mercenary" for themselves any significant area (even with hundreds of friends), as major (NPC) blocks (Empire, Federation and Alliance with some separate "weak" independent systems) have tens of thousands systems in control and settled in our huge Milky Way. Size of it all is just mind buggering. Few systems there and here wont make a difference in such huge galaxy. So in ED there wont most likely be any real possibility to get to "lead/control" any major alliance, that alone will put off some EvE players.
In SC i see lot "same" as in ED (just much worse, so far), cant really prophecy how it is going to end up, but that "max. 150 systems" seems again to put pretty strict borders for any human coalition to gain any significant ground (unless each of those systems have hundreds of "points of interest" like stations).

So, EvE will survive, even grow again, as long as they know how to aim into that niche of (EvE and potentially EvE) players no other games serve just like their way (yet, if ever).


Also, forgot to mention pretty huge differences (between EvE and other games) like skilling and 100% player driven economy and interaction ("sandbox"), ED (and most like SC too) will have NPC economy where players have just limited small impact (explained with such huge space that few invidual players make little changes with all thos NPC´s flying around doing trade etc.).
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#963 - 2015-05-26 12:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
just reading all these comments on this thread is one of the main reasons the competition is getting spikes in players. I swear eve has became the retirement home for old folks. you guys rather debate than demand change.

I cant wait for the competition (ED, SC) to be full on live so then I can watch how you guys debate on how you failed.


Think both ED and SC cater (mostly) to very different kind of player audience compared to EvE, they are games from cockpit (as just a starter about differences) and wont have as massive single battles (EvE used to have, not sure how new sov system will work in that), and EvE has also so deep and numerous player interaction with each others (in PvP and outside it) no other game seen yet.

If EvE will ignore it´s competition and focus on improving game and vision (of their strong points) they have now (instead of trying to emulate competition by example improving PvE that is in EvE actually just a means to fund PvP), i´m sure EvE will survive (even with smaller numbers, just as at early years).

Eve really has that core of faithful players (who will never leave, perhaps partly as they would have most to lose) in mostly null sec (and in PvP in general) and in trade/industry.
These (power hungry) people might have difficulties in ED to carve as an "independent mercenary" for themselves any significant area (even with hundreds of friends), as major (NPC) blocks (Empire, Federation and Alliance with some separate "weak" independent systems) have tens of thousands systems in control and settled in our huge Milky Way. Size of it all is just mind buggering. Few systems there and here wont make a difference in such huge galaxy. So in ED there wont most likely be any real possibility to get to "lead/control" any major alliance, that alone will put off some EvE players.
In SC i see lot "same" as in ED (just much worse, so far), cant really prophecy how it is going to end up, but that "max. 150 systems" seems again to put pretty strict borders for any human coalition to gain any significant ground (unless each of those systems have hundreds of "points of interest" like stations).

So, EvE will survive, even grow again, as long as they know how to aim into that niche of (EvE and potentially EvE) players no other games serve just like their way (yet, if ever).


Other games have nothing to do with EVE, CCP doesn't even have to consider them because they just can't and don't offer what EVE does. Even now people are on Elite's forums complaining that Elite isn't EVE.

(On a side note, reading that forum is a hoot , especially when they complain about gankingBig smile, Also, EVE is gonna Kill Elite, it's so funny to see it in reverse lol ).
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#964 - 2015-05-26 12:21:58 UTC
GankYou wrote:
CCP are an ambitious and very talented company, they will not be content with 60k PCU forever, if it can be 150k PCU. Can servers hold it? P

I think they overextended on non-Eve projects and under-delivered on Incarna/WiS.

There is time to rectify that after the Summer expansions and the Citadel structure system.


http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Seems to me getting even 40K peak even at weekends seems now thought job, especially if June expansion fails to meet expectations.

As I have said, CCP needs to focus/return to special (and only) kind of niche game (players) they have had so far to get back on growth.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#965 - 2015-05-26 12:23:10 UTC
GankYou wrote:
CCP are an ambitious and very talented company, they will not be content with 60k PCU forever, if it can be 150k PCU. Can servers hold it? P

I think they overextended on non-Eve projects and under-delivered on Incarna/WiS.

There is time to rectify that after the Summer expansions and the Citadel structure system.


http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Seems to me getting even 40K peak even at weekends seems now though job, especially if June expansion fails to meet expectations.

As I have said, CCP needs to focus/return to special (and only) kind of niche game (players) they have had so far to get back on growth.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#966 - 2015-05-26 12:25:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Other games have nothing to do with EVE, CCP doesn't even have to consider them because they just can't and don't offer what EVE does. Even now people are on Elite's forums complaining that Elite isn't EVE.

(On a side note, reading that forum is a hoot , especially when they complain about gankingBig smile, Also, EVE is gonna Kill Elite, it's so funny to see it in reverse lol ).


*sigh*

Justifying my decision not to buy a HOTAS controller and play that game. It looks like oodles of fun, but yeesh, what wretched carebears they are.

"I suck at the game, please handicap people who don't suck, or else I quit!"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#967 - 2015-05-26 12:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
GankYou wrote:
CCP are an ambitious and very talented company, they will not be content with 60k PCU forever, if it can be 150k PCU. Can servers hold it? P

I think they overextended on non-Eve projects and under-delivered on Incarna/WiS.

There is time to rectify that after the Summer expansions and the Citadel structure system.


http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Seems to me getting even 40K peak even at weekends seems now though job, especially if June expansion fails to meet expectations.

As I have said, CCP needs to focus/return to special (and only) kind of niche game (players) they have had so far to get back on growth.


You are "doing an EFT". That's what I call it, someone will have a better term for it.

EFT is great, it's light weight and portable and lets you theory craft and is IMO the best fitting tool around. What it can't do is tell you if your ship fit makes sense in EVE online. It can help, but it's not the whole story.

Same with EVE Offline. It can't tell you the whole story. It can't tell you that I (the owner of 4 accounts with 11 characters) have only logged in 3 of that 11 characters at all in the last 4 weeks because my alliance moved out of SOV space so I'm running high sec incursions on one screen while FoF Raven mission running on another (ie using only 2 characters at a time) instead of Quad Boxing FoF Navy Ravens in null anomalies (news flash, i like FoF missiles...and Navy Ravens....). I'm not the only one in that boat, lots of people are inactive waiting for FozzieSov.

PCU counts (and CCPs PR-ish touting of 'increasing subs' that they used to do) never told the whole story, it never tells you who is an alt and who isn't, who is on vacation and who is in school or who can't play because he wife threatened divorce unless he spends more time with her and less with his avatar that he made that looks just like her (lol).

TL;DR, the thing you are basing your opinion on doesn't mean anything.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#968 - 2015-05-26 12:36:39 UTC
Jenn, is this post you?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=134960&page=7&p=2063785&viewfull=1#post2063785

The avatar made me bust out laughing when I saw it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#969 - 2015-05-26 12:37:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn, is this post you?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=134960&page=7&p=2063785&viewfull=1#post2063785

The avatar made me bust out laughing when I saw it.


Not me, but damn it I'm stealing that avatar lol.

Edit: his is an excellent post though. Recruit that mofo to EVE ASAP.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#970 - 2015-05-26 12:38:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn, is this post you?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=134960&page=7&p=2063785&viewfull=1#post2063785

The avatar made me bust out laughing when I saw it.


Not me, but damn it I'm stealing that avatar lol.


He's got your attitude, too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#971 - 2015-05-26 12:39:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Other games have nothing to do with EVE, CCP doesn't even have to consider them because they just can't and don't offer what EVE does. Even now people are on Elite's forums complaining that Elite isn't EVE.

(On a side note, reading that forum is a hoot , especially when they complain about gankingBig smile, Also, EVE is gonna Kill Elite, it's so funny to see it in reverse lol ).


I have been at ED forums since 2013 (alpha backer), and majority of players during 2 years especially did NOT want ED to be new EvE Big smile (they said they could play EvE if they wanted that).

Sure there are some (ex?) EvE players who would want ED to be more like EvE.
And as usual, complainers are majority in forums where actually only fraction of players write to, just as here (FD has actually themselves said that only minority even read forums, and fraction writes on them).

So as i pretty much said, as long as EvE continues it´s own path (and ED in it´s own), future (of both) is secured Smile

There can never be too much space games Cool
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#972 - 2015-05-26 12:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

*sigh*

Justifying my decision not to buy a HOTAS controller and play that game. It looks like oodles of fun, but yeesh, what wretched carebears they are.

"I suck at the game, please handicap people who don't suck, or else I quit!"


It works just as well with kb+mouse when you get to use them before Hotas for about a year, i bought Saitek X52 pro but havent use it once yet in ED Lol (did not yet bother to assign every key with trial & error in it), just got too used during beta/alpha to mouse+kb and i have no problems even in pvp against those with Hotas, so.. Smile
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#973 - 2015-05-26 14:19:41 UTC
Should also add that EvE does not compete with ED or SC even from "subscription money", as they are games one can pay for once (i assume almost every EvE player can afford that), sure there will be bigger expansions (like flying / landing at planets and free movement at ships / starports) that costs more, but most of (EvE) players have decided long before they arrive what/which games they wanna play.

In general, i don´t see average EvE player so poor they could not afford other games (or even their expansions).

So in that sense (too) other games should not be seen as a threath to EvE.

All is up to CCP themselves.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#974 - 2015-05-26 14:48:00 UTC
Eve is the only game I know that tries to brag about having 16k players online. competition is going to treat eve like mayweather treated pacquio just runs circles around ya and shakes his head.. oh huh homeboy you late, slow, and trying to hard.

im heading where the money team is.. hell those games already have made more money, than ccp has.. they wont even show you the real numbers any longer cause that's just how bad ccp is.. and oh wait till that clusterfawk of madness fozzie-sov kicks in..

numbers

d
r
o
p
p
I
n
g

..betta tell seagull to write up a please stay with us speech blog again.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#975 - 2015-05-26 15:21:20 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Eve is the only game I know that tries to brag about having 16k players online. competition is going to treat eve like mayweather treated pacquio just runs circles around ya and shakes his head.. oh huh homeboy you late, slow, and trying to hard.

im heading where the money team is.. hell those games already have made more money, than ccp has.. they wont even show you the real numbers any longer cause that's just how bad ccp is.. and oh wait till that clusterfawk of madness fozzie-sov kicks in..

numbers

d
r
o
p
p
I
n
g

..betta tell seagull to write up a please stay with us speech blog again.



Can I have your stuff, please?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#976 - 2015-05-26 15:22:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Eve is the only game I know that tries to brag about having 16k players online. competition is going to treat eve like mayweather treated pacquio just runs circles around ya and shakes his head.. oh huh homeboy you late, slow, and trying to hard.

im heading where the money team is.. hell those games already have made more money, than ccp has.. they wont even show you the real numbers any longer cause that's just how bad ccp is.. and oh wait till that clusterfawk of madness fozzie-sov kicks in..

numbers

d
r
o
p
p
I
n
g

..betta tell seagull to write up a please stay with us speech blog again.



Can I have your stuff, please?


sure once stations blow up, good luck on figuring out how to get it all..
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#977 - 2015-05-26 15:25:50 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Eve is the only game I know that tries to brag about having 16k players online. competition is going to treat eve like mayweather treated pacquio just runs circles around ya and shakes his head.. oh huh homeboy you late, slow, and trying to hard.

im heading where the money team is.. hell those games already have made more money, than ccp has.. they wont even show you the real numbers any longer cause that's just how bad ccp is.. and oh wait till that clusterfawk of madness fozzie-sov kicks in..

numbers

d
r
o
p
p
I
n
g

..betta tell seagull to write up a please stay with us speech blog again.



Can I have your stuff, please?


sure once stations blow up, good luck on figuring out how to get it all..


As long as people who don't like CCP or what they are doing with EVE keep paying (ie caring enough to post snarkily about CCP, not caring enough to stop giving CCP money), EVE will never die. It's ironic if you think about it.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#978 - 2015-05-26 15:29:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Eve is the only game I know that tries to brag about having 16k players online. competition is going to treat eve like mayweather treated pacquio just runs circles around ya and shakes his head.. oh huh homeboy you late, slow, and trying to hard.

im heading where the money team is.. hell those games already have made more money, than ccp has.. they wont even show you the real numbers any longer cause that's just how bad ccp is.. and oh wait till that clusterfawk of madness fozzie-sov kicks in..

numbers

d
r
o
p
p
I
n
g

..betta tell seagull to write up a please stay with us speech blog again.



Can I have your stuff, please?


sure once stations blow up, good luck on figuring out how to get it all..


As long as people who don't like CCP or what they are doing with EVE keep paying (ie caring enough to post snarkily about CCP, not caring enough to stop giving CCP money), EVE will never die. It's ironic if you think about it.


Absolutely true, now that i have my null sec accounts hybernating (waiting what happens with new sov), i just love to use EvE as just one HUGE chat arena (too)... Anybody old enough to remember IRC? Big smile
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#979 - 2015-05-26 15:34:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Eve is the only game I know that tries to brag about having 16k players online. competition is going to treat eve like mayweather treated pacquio just runs circles around ya and shakes his head.. oh huh homeboy you late, slow, and trying to hard.

im heading where the money team is.. hell those games already have made more money, than ccp has.. they wont even show you the real numbers any longer cause that's just how bad ccp is.. and oh wait till that clusterfawk of madness fozzie-sov kicks in..

numbers

d
r
o
p
p
I
n
g

..betta tell seagull to write up a please stay with us speech blog again.



Can I have your stuff, please?


sure once stations blow up, good luck on figuring out how to get it all..


As long as people who don't like CCP or what they are doing with EVE keep paying (ie caring enough to post snarkily about CCP, not caring enough to stop giving CCP money), EVE will never die. It's ironic if you think about it.


that's true, I mean this game has had 12 yrs to get it right and still cant seem to get it right, it's just very unnerving to know they're moving into well we'll try this or that. the end effects of fozzie-sov will end up back full circle again "we need to force folks to null cause now not everyone is coming to null" which means they'll whine to nerf high-sec.. I mean we've been here before.. over and over again.. that's why its honestly better to look at other options for gaming these days.

I liked eve for the chance she seemed to provide, but the blobbing, ridiculous cruelty to newbs, and attitude that she's placed is just out right stinky these days convulted ways of manipulating forced recruitment into large coalitions is at hand here. Sheeple and there's many sheeple will get bored and whine more on stuff to get nerf'd or removed cause they want to force their way of playing. this isn't the sandbox.. its a sheeple-box..
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#980 - 2015-05-26 15:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Milla Goodpussy wrote:


that's true, I mean this game has had 12 yrs to get it right and still cant seem to get it right, it's just very unnerving to know they're moving into well we'll try this or that. the end effects of fozzie-sov will end up back full circle again "we need to force folks to null cause now not everyone is coming to null" which means they'll whine to nerf high-sec.. I mean we've been here before.. over and over again.. that's why its honestly better to look at other options for gaming these days.

I liked eve for the chance she seemed to provide, but the blobbing, ridiculous cruelty to newbs, and attitude that she's placed is just out right stinky these days convulted ways of manipulating forced recruitment into large coalitions is at hand here. Sheeple and there's many sheeple will get bored and whine more on stuff to get nerf'd or removed cause they want to force their way of playing. this isn't the sandbox.. its a sheeple-box..


A text book example of a persons problem actually being themselves but blaming it on someone else.

I've met sooo many like you in this game (and others), people with unreasonable expectation who cling to a game not for what it provides, but for what it MIGHT provide at some point in the future if the people who develop it miraculously wake up and just do it right (aka the way YOU want them to) lol. The hint of "CCP wants me to blob in null sec" tinfoil-hattery is the second most delicious thing about your post.

I say second, because the 1st is, again, that your posting rights and your own post demonstrates that you've spent 12 years PAYING SOMEONE TO DISAPPOINT YOU when an actual rational person could have figured this out 11.99 years ago and saved a bunch of money, priceless time AND frustration.