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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#741 - 2015-05-17 13:17:55 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

First: define "fun".


Something done for enjoyment, rather than any particular benefit.

Quote:

Obviously the guy quoting you doesn't knows why mission runners do run missions.


They do it to make money, for whatever reason. Notably, not enjoyment. I've met more than a few nascent mission runners who do it because the NPE led them in that direction, so they think they "have" to run missions.

And we all know that such players, unless interacted with in a meaningful way, eventually quit the game entirely. An argument could easily be made that highsec PvE is actively hurting the game, by damaging potential retention.


You see? Totally clueless. Lol

Let this sink in: mining is fun.

Some people play contact sports. Others go fishing. Part of EVE's beauty is that it allows both styles of having fun, albeit one is neglected and looked upon whereas the other is boasted all over the place. Also, one of the sytles is constantly shoved down the throat of the players who prefer the other style, but that doesn't works in the opposite direction. Some people is in game to be pusshed forever, and some are in game to never risk being pushed back.

And that is an abysmally poor design.


Wait... so why does PvE needs to be changed if, according to you, it is already so much fun to do?


Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand". The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Jenshae Chiroptera
#742 - 2015-05-17 13:27:33 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.
we can do a list of fun things ...
Mining is fun when you are relaxing and socialising. Gate camping is worse than mining and that is considered to be PVP.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#743 - 2015-05-17 13:37:38 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.
we can do a list of fun things ...
Mining is fun when you are relaxing and socialising. Gate camping is worse than mining and that is considered to be PVP.


So, anything fun about mining... is something you can do with literally any activity? Or heck, even not playing the game at all?

Fairly damning, if you ask me. The whining about gatecamps just puts it in even more of a hilarious light.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#744 - 2015-05-17 15:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.
we can do a list of fun things ...
Mining is fun when you are relaxing and socialising. Gate camping is worse than mining and that is considered to be PVP.


So, anything fun about mining... is something you can do with literally any activity? Or heck, even not playing the game at all?

Fairly damning, if you ask me. The whining about gatecamps just puts it in even more of a hilarious light.

yeah it's like comparing the entertainment value of any activity on my list to the entertainment value of the same activity complemented with a well-timed energetic fart

for example, farting on a bus. hilarious
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#745 - 2015-05-17 16:09:43 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
for example, farting on a bus. hilarious
Even more so if it's an SBD and you drop it as you get off.

P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#746 - 2015-05-17 16:22:30 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand". The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll


And the people who claim to speak for 62% of people despite never being elected to anything probably aren't real PVErs either.

Again you do NOT speak for us.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#747 - 2015-05-17 16:24:59 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.
we can do a list of fun things ...
Mining is fun when you are relaxing and socialising. Gate camping is worse than mining and that is considered to be PVP.


So, anything fun about mining... is something you can do with literally any activity? Or heck, even not playing the game at all?

Fairly damning, if you ask me. The whining about gatecamps just puts it in even more of a hilarious light.

yeah it's like comparing the entertainment value of any activity on my list to the entertainment value of the same activity complemented with a well-timed energetic fart

for example, farting on a bus. hilarious


Well that's just horrible! Farting on a bus, ruining the time that other people are having by enjoying that captivating bus ride, merely for your own amusement! You sociopath, you cad, you fiend!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#748 - 2015-05-17 16:38:53 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
First: define "fun".


Something done for enjoyment, rather than any particular benefit.

An AI can't generate the 'fun' roleplaying fetishists demand.

You're mixing up several different playstyles and preferences here without any particular effect btw isachunk.

Solo players can do so without being forced to play in larger groups. Actually a lot of people in mid to large groups are soloers who don't really interract all that much with anyone. The myth that joining a corp is a second job is a myth for anyone but leadership.

You can do trade, indy, research, invention, manufacturing, hauling, mining, exploration as well as regular missions/plexing. You choose not to because, evidently you expect to undock 3 jumps from your nearest trade hub and have NPC generated content delivered. Which is fair enough in some ways provided it doesn't hurt the economy. But you don't insta undock into a dungeon or instance. You undock with us, and we are going to find a way to play with you, because we live here too.

PVE content has been added within the game design philosophy. Wormholes, Incursions, Burners, Drifters. There was already PVE content outside of highsec (level 5s, plexing etc) and rescuing the Damsel for the 2400th time - but you chose not to take it.

Read this and consider why those comments were made.


Hey, I've tried "other playstyles". So far, the Drifter content has costed me a hefty amount of ISK. I've lost a Rattlesnake, a Harbinger, a Prophecy and a Purifier both to Drifters and Seekers. Maybe some people will laugh at me and my display of incompetence (haw haw! I soloed a Drifter in a Venture LOL! YUR NOOB go back to Wow!!!). Now I've learned and don't plan on losing my current ship, while I get what I look for (Antikythera elements) in amounts high enough to compensate for NOT mining ice (specially at the current prices of ice). It's been a nice ride and has kept me subbed for a couple of months.

But, how does CCP plan to reward me? I'll tell you: the next Drifter content is inside wormholes, nowhere a self-respecitng highsec carebear is gonna go. Further, likely Jove observatories will be "destroyed" (=removed) so they can't be further mined for Antikythera elements. CCP, in its endless idiocy, thinks that Antkythera elements are gonna lure ME (or any self-respecting highsec carebear) outside of our "comfort zone" (=the reason why we give money to CCP) and learn "the real game" (wormhole PvP) in order to enjoy wormhole PvE. No. And that's a NO the size of all the players CCP lost to that ASS-umption.

Some people (62% of players?) will NOT learn to PvP just to do more PvE. Because they are not here for the PvP.

This is why all the "new" PvE ahs been so bloody unsuccesful (as Level 5s). We are not here to risk being blown by other players. And so once we choose an amount of risk, we stick to it until we grow bored or we quit. Running some napkin calculations, CCP has lost about one million subscribers to this, and yet they still haven't learned their lessons.


They learned that about a million people are not cut out for EVE. Just like the above quoted poster who claims to be a PVE pilot but denies himself 99% of the PVE opportunities in the game because of self limiting behaviors (while failing to understand that is it is those self limiting behaviors that causes his perpetual unhappiness not any lack on CCP's part). I'm one of those 62% EVE players and I'm still here, still running anoms, missions, fw missions, incursions, exploration and trying to figure out Drifters.

That whole "62% are being abused" nonsense is a lie, as evidence by the fact that the person who keeps saying it is still here. And still here being counter productive, because his every post turns more and more PVE players against his way of thinking (many of the people in this thread telling him he doesn't know what he is talking about are PVE player, like Jonah, and me).


CCP isn't good at themepark carebear 'content'. They are GREAT at SANDBOX PVE content where a player has to have a little bit of "tolerance for pvp interference" and self-starting attitude. EVE PVE as a whole is great for "risk-taker" Indiana Jones types who value gaining things (like isk) against opposition. EVE style PVE also appeals to Tinkerer/Amateur engineer types that love to experiment.

What it can never do is appeal to people who need to be hand held and spoon fed 'content'. There are other games for that. CCP shouldn't be changing this successful game that has endured for more than a decade because a tiny fringe element (not 62% of anything) can't wait for Star Citizen to come out so they can be happy (which they won't even then, because the problem isn't the games, it's them).
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#749 - 2015-05-17 16:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand". The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll


And the people who claim to speak for 62% of people despite never being elected to anything probably aren't real PVErs either.

Again you do NOT speak for us.


She should totally gather up all these people who support her.
I want to see a thread full of these people raising her arm for her.


Ha.



"(or any self-respecting highsec carebear) " .... it's not self-respect.

It's a superiority complex.



Btw ... did anyone notice that carebears only ever seem to do one thing ?

Like ... so many people have alts for so many things ... including PvP combat ...
... and carebears ?

Remember when people say "who builds your ship if we don't mine?" ?

It's exactly that way of thinking. As if everyone has his designated role.

Stupid.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#750 - 2015-05-17 16:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand".
To improve or expand something requires that a change takes place.Roll

So yeah you did say change.

Quote:
The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll
Umm miner, amongst other things, here. Mining mechanics suck, IMHO they need revising so that mining is more engaging and interactive. Press F1 and having the possibility to walk away for 10 minutes or more is not good gameplay design.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#751 - 2015-05-17 16:50:53 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand". The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll
To improve or expand something requires that a change takes place.Roll

So yeah you did say change.
Sheesh, not even I go that far. xD

How're you doing, Jonah? :D
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#752 - 2015-05-17 16:58:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Eve Solecist wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand". The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll
To improve or expand something requires that a change takes place.Roll

So yeah you did say change.
Sheesh, not even I go that far. xD

How're you doing, Jonah? :D
lol, it's true though.

Doing fine thanks Sol, although I seem to playing skill queue online more than internet spaceships recently; methinks it may be time to find myself a new direction in Eve, playing semi-solo as an honest man trying to make his way in a dishonest world has gotten stale.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Valkin Mordirc
#753 - 2015-05-17 17:26:29 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Did not say "change". I did say "improve", even "expand".
To improve or expand something requires that a change takes place.Roll

So yeah you did say change.

Quote:
The people who want mining mechanics to change are not miners.Roll
Umm miner, amongst other things, here. Mining mechanics suck, IMHO they need revising so that mining is more engaging and interactive. Press F1 and having the possibility to walk away for 10 minutes or more is not good gameplay design.



I agree. ^.^ I'm not a miner and I want to change so I can actually enjoy mining. I had more fun mining in Runescape when I was 13 than I do now in EVE.
#DeleteTheWeak
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#754 - 2015-05-17 17:36:27 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I agree. ^.^ I'm not a miner and I want to change so I can actually enjoy mining. I had more fun mining in Runescape when I was 13 than I do now in EVE.

when you were a minor oh hohohohohohohohoho IdeaIdeaIdeaArrow

we miners we do jokes

just to pass the time
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#755 - 2015-05-17 17:38:42 UTC
all jokers, joking around

sometimes warp back to station

good times, jokes
Jenshae Chiroptera
#756 - 2015-05-17 19:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.
we can do a list of fun things ...
Mining is fun when you are relaxing and socialising. Gate camping is worse than mining and that is considered to be PVP.


So, anything fun about mining... is something you can do with literally any activity? Or heck, even not playing the game at all?

Fairly damning, if you ask me. The whining about gatecamps just puts it in even more of a hilarious light.

yeah it's like comparing the entertainment value of any activity on my list to the entertainment value of the same activity complemented with a well-timed energetic fart

for example, farting on a bus. hilarious
+ EVE frands + making ISK + semi-AFK getting other things done.

It also makes PVP more interesting, as you are more invested, if you built your own ship. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#757 - 2015-05-17 19:55:11 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


It also makes PVP more interesting, as you are more invested, if you built your own ship. Blink


But that doesn't make the activity itself any more fun.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#758 - 2015-05-17 19:59:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


It also makes PVP more interesting, as you are more invested, if you built your own ship. Blink


But that doesn't make the activity itself any more fun.


I don't care who builds my ship. I don't like losing a PvP ship because I can't PvP till I reship and get back to the fight.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#759 - 2015-05-17 20:02:31 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Let this sink in: mining is fun.
we can do a list of fun things ...
Mining is fun when you are relaxing and socialising. Gate camping is worse than mining and that is considered to be PVP.


Gatecamping:
Waiting for hours for small game and hope you get at least one hit to show on the killboard...
I think its more exciting to be in a blockaderunner. Snore at the for hours until a shuttle comes...
Or the legendary loot pinata comes...(after decillion hours of wait)
Sounds mindnumbing like mining.


Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#760 - 2015-05-17 22:40:39 UTC
Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

I have removed a couple off-topic/trolling posts, and those quoting them. Please follow our simple rules when participating in discussions.

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