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[June] [Updated] Module Tiericide - Afterburners & Microwarpdrives

First post First post
Author
Richard Masseri
Sigil Solutions
#81 - 2015-05-04 15:01:20 UTC
I rather like this it will be a change and I will be confused for awhile but it will be good
ArchAngael
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2015-05-04 15:02:19 UTC
Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety.

Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player.

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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#83 - 2015-05-04 15:04:09 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Please, keep the names at 1, 10 and 100 propmod. The new 5, 50, 500 propmod convention will confuse more than help.

Afterburners need a little more pfffsshhhhh

From the office and or deadspace spiral downward I propose the x-type give you +200-225% speed and from there is goes down in 10% increments or so.


You can boat around your market search awkardness by just tpying in the desired amounts of zeros before the MN, like 00MN for BS.

On the other hand gameplay changes increased the effects of sigtanking, currently you can tank a RLM orthrus in an AB astero for extended periods of time (without exile or even links), arguably sick. Now go with some more FOTM and you suddenly got a 10mn astero making 4.0km/s cold with a 25m sig, and a few bombers with polarized torps making 3km/s cold with a 35m sig. Right now they aren'T that fast, but an AB velocity increase would clearly push them over the top.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#84 - 2015-05-04 15:09:54 UTC
MWDs used to be differentiated by speed boost amount a long time ago.

I fully support this change.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2015-05-04 15:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Lloyd Roses wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Please, keep the names at 1, 10 and 100 propmod. The new 5, 50, 500 propmod convention will confuse more than help.

Afterburners need a little more pfffsshhhhh

From the office and or deadspace spiral downward I propose the x-type give you +200-225% speed and from there is goes down in 10% increments or so.


You can boat around your market search awkardness by just tpying in the desired amounts of zeros before the MN, like 00MN for BS.

On the other hand gameplay changes increased the effects of sigtanking, currently you can tank a RLM orthrus in an AB astero for extended periods of time (without exile or even links), arguably sick. Now go with some more FOTM and you suddenly got a 10mn astero making 4.0km/s cold with a 25m sig, and a few bombers with polarized torps making 3km/s cold with a 35m sig. Right now they aren'T that fast, but an AB velocity increase would clearly push them over the top.

Bombers are already overpowered and need a nerfbat regardless of the propmod thing. Also did you know the polarized torps have no range drawback (why did I say ROF? Posting sleepy) like polarized turrets have? Food for thought.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Brothers of Tangra
#86 - 2015-05-04 15:11:03 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
[quote=Lloyd Roses][quote=elitatwo]
Bombers are already overpowered and need a nerfbat regardless of the propmod thing. Also did you know the polarized torps have no rate of fire drawback like polarized turrets? Food for thought.

because they do not have a damage multiplier feature like guns do....
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2015-05-04 15:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
[quote=Lloyd Roses][quote=elitatwo]
Bombers are already overpowered and need a nerfbat regardless of the propmod thing. Also did you know the polarized torps have no rate of fire drawback like polarized turrets? Food for thought.

because they do not have a damage multiplier feature like guns do....

No it was my mistake.


But turrets have 2 drawbacks and torps have one. They both have equivalent damage per second bonuses (either through multiplier or rate of fire).
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#88 - 2015-05-04 15:14:22 UTC
Nice to see these on the block! Could we go for a bottom end reduction in speed instead of a top end increase though? Speed fits are already fast enough imo.
Lilliana Stelles
#89 - 2015-05-04 15:16:32 UTC
I, for one, am happy with the return of fluff names.

I felt like they actually added to the feel of the game.

It's still not nearly as bad as KSP.

I was hoping to see a more consistent theme across deadspace modules though. (CORE is reduced cap for ABs, and GIST is reduced CPU, but GIST is reduced cap for MWD's.... what)... though I'm not really sure how they'd implement a fix for that.

Not a forum alt. 

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Brothers of Tangra
#90 - 2015-05-04 15:16:58 UTC
God all mighty... we have had 10 years straight of speed nerfs... scorps used to do 22km/s +
let ccp buff something for once.


let them give people a 0.035% speed buff



ITS 0.035% speed buff

0.035%
For an A-TYPE MOD!!!
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2015-05-04 15:18:18 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
For ABs, Gist ones are faster and require more cap. For mwds, gist ones though require less cap, are equally fast and have a bigger sigbloom. Is that intended or type? Because it doesn't make much sense that the coreli one is better suited for sigtanking compared to an angel mod.

Hrm, good catch I think. Let me relook at this.


Serenit Adoulin wrote:
Gistum MWDs need more power to fit, more GJ for activation and are slower now compared to other one. Thats not really what I would consider fair.

Slower? All modules of the same meta level should have the same speed bonus. Can you provide an example?


Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Can we expect to see officer MWDs being better than deadspace? As it stands now officer is just an expensive deadspace prop...

The Officer modules receive a -10% CPU & Powergrid fitting requirements and a +10% overload speed bonus over the Deadspace mods.


ArchAngael wrote:
Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety.

Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player.

Thats what the Compact (Lower fitting requirements), Enduring (Lower capacitor usage) & Restrained (Lower drawbacks) parts of the name indicate. If you look at some of the other module groups we've Tiericided, you'll see its consistent. "Cold-Gas" is flavor only.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#92 - 2015-05-04 15:19:12 UTC
Gorski Car wrote:
Nice to see that t2 mwds are actually faster now. But really do we need more speed creep in eve? it feels like ships are super fast right now and that creates some problems in my opinion. In a vacum they might be okish whats most important is what you guys are planning to do with links since they heavily affect this as well. For certain ships these changes might be terrifying though. Garmurs doing 10k m/s or stilettos burning 100km and tackeling you before you can lock them.


i kinda want to see officer fit garmurs. because reasons.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Brothers of Tangra
#93 - 2015-05-04 15:21:23 UTC
Cold gas is fine, but remove the complicated Y-SR do dar crap
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2015-05-04 15:21:25 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Q: Why have you changed the MWDs to 5/50/500MN?
A: We want show there is a clear increase in power between Afterburners and Microwarpdrives. It also makes searching the market a little easier.

I guess that depends on personal preference. I usually bring up the market window and enter 1mn, 10mn, or 100mn -- depending on if I'm fitting a frig, cruiser, or bs size hull, respectively. That's almost always quicker than browsing through the folder menu.
Renura Ostus
THE CORP WITH NO NAME
#95 - 2015-05-04 15:24:24 UTC
+1 for 5/50/500 mwd names. At least it now clearly understandable in talks is it '1mn svipul', '5mn svipul', '10mn svipul' and I don't have to carefully listen for 'ab'/'mwd' suffix.

+1 for meta1 cleanup. As promised, all meta 1 gives the same main bonus - speed and different penalties, fitting, cap usage. And it's better then meta0 and worse then meta5. Thanks for that.

Finally t2 mwd is worth to use on interceptor (but restrained variant have better sig/speed ratio. I wonder, how much will it cost) :)

Now the last point - those vendor names. I assume that it's a part of our Lore and can't be removed, to not fall into kind of pure mathematical names without any soul. But there is also practical disadvantage - searching. If I want to quickly get "5MN [vendor] Restrained Microwarpdrive", I would like to have ability to enter just '5mn re' in search and get it without needing to remind all those vendor names.

So kind of 'fuzzy string search' (like Ctrl-P in Sublime) in market and other places would be great to have with those new names.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#96 - 2015-05-04 15:24:37 UTC
Canenald wrote:
Will t2 MWD finally be useful?


well lets see:

5MN Microwarpdrive II [Meta Level 5; Powergrid 17; CPU 25; Activation 50; Cap Penalty -20 (-3); Signature Bonus 500%; Velocity Bonus 510 (+10)%; Overload Bonus 50%]

yup thats an extra 5% now over all the other tech I metas... so yes tech II will actually be better.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#97 - 2015-05-04 15:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Can we expect to see officer MWDs being better than deadspace? As it stands now officer is just an expensive deadspace prop...

The Officer modules receive [...] a +10% overload speed bonus over the Deadspace mods.


Ohhh, you touche my tralala CCP Larrikin.

Bienator II wrote:
Gorski Car wrote:
Nice to see that t2 mwds are actually faster now. But really do we need more speed creep in eve? it feels like ships are super fast right now and that creates some problems in my opinion. In a vacum they might be okish whats most important is what you guys are planning to do with links since they heavily affect this as well. For certain ships these changes might be terrifying though. Garmurs doing 10k m/s or stilettos burning 100km and tackeling you before you can lock them.


i kinda want to see officer fit garmurs. because reasons.


The only Officer propulsion mods are the Battleship ones.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2015-05-04 15:30:23 UTC
Players almost exclusively just say 'microwarpdrive' or 'afterburner' when discussing propmods. They will do the same when talking to newbies. For a newbie, this clearly communicates 2 classes to them that are easy to distinguish by the relative speeds they get out of the mods. A 1mn vs 5mn name difference is not required for newbies and it is not required for established players. Its awkward and not used verbally or when typing in chat. It just muddies the waters. In fact, the flavor names that separate the class number distinguisher XMN from the "micro" or "afterburner" also contributes to confusion. The most important parts of the name is the XMN and the final word of the name. This is bad. The less middle-text there is, the more clear the name will be for newbies.

Therefore, more flavor text is bad unless CCP figures out good SUFFIXES to put after 'Afterburner' or 'microwarpdrive'. I think the chance of that is low.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2015-05-04 15:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Looks good to me at first glance. Most important, if I'm not mistaken, it will not break my existing fits this time.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Caljiav Ocanon
The Holy Rollers
#100 - 2015-05-04 15:33:39 UTC
1) Ever since I started playing I wondered why AB and MWDs were both scaled as 1/10/100MN when obviously the MWDs are faster. I like the change to 5/50/500 for MWDs as it makes sense.

2) Adding "extra" names to the modules is superfluous even if they sound cool. Long names will just get shortened by the players anyway and in a few years CCP_Someone will want to rename them to "make things easier/simpler/noob friendlier" again.

3) If you are doing all this why not just go ahead and make Cap/SuperCap mods? They all (maybe not all but damn) pack around 100MN MWDs now so might as well make it "official".

4) At least attempt to differentiate officer/deadspace in a meaningful way.

5) Try to keep "power creep" to a minimum on this. One or two percent probably won't make much of a difference depending on how you do things and where you put it but don't just blanket buff everything. This will create more problems than it will fix. ideally I'd like to see a little extra cleverness by CCP here rather than just speed buffs.