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[June] [Updated] Module Tiericide - Afterburners & Microwarpdrives

First post First post
Author
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#101 - 2015-05-04 15:36:12 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

ArchAngael wrote:
Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety.

Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player.

Thats what the Compact (Lower fitting requirements), Enduring (Lower capacitor usage) & Restrained (Lower drawbacks) parts of the name indicate. If you look at some of the other module groups we've Tiericided, you'll see its consistent. "Cold-Gas" is flavor only.


The problem arises when you attempt to combine this with flavour names everything becomes too wordy
Nik Domar
Acerbus Vindictum
HYDRA RELOADED
#102 - 2015-05-04 15:36:30 UTC
I really like most of the changes here, giving reason to fit T2 MWD:s and compact modules bringing alternative to expensive digital/analog storyline prop mods. Those might open some really good new fitting options in fitting oversized prop mods. I know there are some concern over buffing faction and deadspace mwd:s to give more speed, but I would believe in practice change might not be that bad.

I did however notice one little thing on new stats

Mizuro's Modified 500MN Microwarpdrive [Meta Level 11; Powergrid 1350 (-150); CPU 67 (-7); Activation 270; Cap Penalty -7 (+1); Signature Bonus 440 (-4)%; Velocity Bonus 514 (+14)%; Overload Bonus 60 (+10)%]

Current TQ stats give mizuros mwd activation of 255 GJ, is this change intended to make it consume more per cycle?
SilentAsTheGrave
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#103 - 2015-05-04 15:39:11 UTC
Restrict propulsion modules from being fit to capital ships.
fenistil
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2015-05-04 15:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: fenistil
I would keep at least one module at meta 3/4. Simple reason: increase chances of invention.

Also: 10% increase in activation cost between T1 and T2 for 1% speed increase and terrible fitting penalties: not worth it. Please reconsider the fitting consts and the activation/speed bonus ratios.

.

Tyr Dolorem
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-05-04 15:56:12 UTC
Don't really see the need for swapping around stats on the republic fleet/domination afterburner VS the fed navy/shadow serp.

Why not leave the faction meta level that was higher the same?
Deus lmperator
Sick That Duck
#106 - 2015-05-04 15:58:24 UTC
no pls no
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#107 - 2015-05-04 16:05:40 UTC
Nik Domar wrote:
I did however notice one little thing on new stats

Mizuro's Modified 500MN Microwarpdrive [Meta Level 11; Powergrid 1350 (-150); CPU 67 (-7); Activation 270; Cap Penalty -7 (+1); Signature Bonus 440 (-4)%; Velocity Bonus 514 (+14)%; Overload Bonus 60 (+10)%]

Current TQ stats give mizuros mwd activation of 255 GJ, is this change intended to make it consume more per cycle?

Yeah, the Mizuro's Modified 500MN Microwarpdrive currently on TQ is an anomaly at 255 GJ. All other officer modules come in at 324 or 270. I suspect it was a typo.

We decided to bring it back in line.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#108 - 2015-05-04 16:06:05 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
...On the other hand gameplay changes increased the effects of sigtanking, currently you can tank a RLM orthrus in an AB astero for extended periods of time (without exile or even links), arguably sick. Now go with some more FOTM and you suddenly got a 10mn astero making 4.0km/s cold with a 25m sig, and a few bombers with polarized torps making 3km/s cold with a 35m sig. Right now they aren'T that fast, but an AB velocity increase would clearly push them over the top.


eeeek!!

Actually I was thinking more in the line of making 1mn ab's more suiting for frigates and 10mn for cruisers and so on. Some of the things I don't consider right away escape me sometimes. Sorry for that.

I thought that sig-tanking was more of a True Sansha trait, so the Succubus, Phantasm and the Nightmare can do it to some extent.
I wasn't looking to make Asteros go 4km/s with an 10mn ab. I had my True Sanaha ships in mind with the 'right size' afterburner.

Let's hope we can make do without module restrictions, the outcry....


CCP while we are at module tiericide, can you consider making some small armor plates and shield extenders viable again?

When you introduced 'weapon grouping' the smaller armor plates and shield extenders kinda went extinct over night to account for the inceased damage that ships have to soak up at once.

(Read with grandpa Simpson voice) Back in the day our turrets and launchers were operation like this, gun1 - tick, gun2 - tick and so on and now it's 2-8x gun -> splat - tick.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

ArchAngael
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2015-05-04 16:11:49 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

ArchAngael wrote:
Love the 5/50/500 change. I'm less sold on the names. I would rather see more subtlety.

Personally I would rather see a certain flavor tag, like cold-gas, mean something specific across all modules and use that to indicate its role. For example, players could learn that cold-gas on any module means less cap use and anytime you see it, you know it's the cap saver module. You could add something to the Show Info to explain it and serve as a reference if people forget, but it would become one more bit of knowledge that makes you a better Eve player.

Thats what the Compact (Lower fitting requirements), Enduring (Lower capacitor usage) & Restrained (Lower drawbacks) parts of the name indicate. If you look at some of the other module groups we've Tiericided, you'll see its consistent. "Cold-Gas" is flavor only.


The problem arises when you attempt to combine this with flavour names everything becomes too wordy


Exactly this. I get that the Enduring, etc indicate the niche they fill, but I find the flavor text both more subtle and more ~immersive~ than just prepending Enduring or whatever. Both of them make the name too long and wordy, but I think a lot of people like the flavor text, so why not use the flavor text itself as the niche definition.

Read my Pod and Planet fiction entry at http://blog.fenjaylabs.com/2015/11/12/the-best-sport-pod-and-planet-entry/

Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz

Kaeda Maxwell
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#110 - 2015-05-04 16:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaeda Maxwell
Any chance you could explain to us the reasoning behind buffing T2 mods speed instead of nerfing the tier beneath it?

Things have already gotten really fast in EVE first after the T1 cruiser buff and more recently with propulsion mode on T3D's.

The reason people currently often fit named MWD's is because they have no meaningful penalty compared to T2. I know developers don't like 'nerfing' stuff but I think it would genuinely be better to nerf the lower ends instead of buffing the higher ends in this case to create meaningful choice.

Even more speed seems like a bad idea for the overall health of PvP gameplay atm. Brawling was pretty dead already in anything bigger then frigates in the small gang meta, it really doesn't need another kick in the proverbial nuts.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#111 - 2015-05-04 16:19:24 UTC
ArchAngael wrote:
Exactly this. I get that the Enduring, etc indicate the niche they fill, but I find the flavor text both more subtle and more ~immersive~ than just prepending Enduring or whatever. Both of them make the name too long and wordy, but I think a lot of people like the flavor text, so why not use the flavor text itself as the niche definition.

You can't have a Cold-Gas Shield Extender or Heavy Missile Launcher, or an Arbalest Tachyon Beam Laser. CCP replaced the variety of naming flavors with this new pattern that is tailored to cater to the dense in the world because it is too hard to memorize some names.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Baron Wikkheiser
Infinite Density
#112 - 2015-05-04 16:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Baron Wikkheiser
Quote:


We are going to be watching how the small speed buff affects TQ. We've done a bunch of internal testing and don't expect it to have a large impact on the meta. That said, give us your feedback! There are 4 weeks till release.


The thing is that the meta is already bad. All these high speed hulls do is to limit choice. People have been choosing hulls that ignore the little problem of projection and application against 4kms cruisers. And while Fozzie and Rise may think it's awesome that many of the best small gang ships are kiting RLML and drone ships, I think I can vouch for some people that it just gets mind numbing using these one-dimensional ships over and over because they are the best option right now
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2015-05-04 16:26:33 UTC
A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com

Phaade
Proioxis Assault Force
Rogue Caldari Union
#114 - 2015-05-04 16:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Please reduce MWD velocity bonus. Even 400% would still be plenty fast. Then you add links and overheating -_-

AB's are still relatively too slow, bordering on uselessness except for niche stuff like gate hugging or FW plex button fighting.

Or even more niche, dual prop.
Oddsodz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2015-05-04 16:28:46 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

We are going to be watching how the small speed buff affects TQ. We've done a bunch of internal testing and don't expect it to have a large impact on the meta. That said, give us your feedback! There are 4 weeks till release.



Yeh, Like We really needed that Garmar to have a speed boost with his unkillabe link ship sitting on a gate., The SPEED CREEP is real. Thanks for that.

/walks away unhappy.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#116 - 2015-05-04 16:32:47 UTC
Hmm, an A-type mwd is now 3.35% faster than any mwd with these stats if my maths is right. I'm not sure whether to be concerned or not, ships are already very fast but that's not a big number.

RIP explaining to people that the 1MN/10MN/100MN correspond to the ship mass at which the drive performs at specification. I don't see 5/50/500 as a simplification at all.

On flavour names in general, I wonder if you've considered what this means for chat, ship scanners (which badly need usability enhancements but that's another topic) and cargo scanners? Longer names run off the window or get wrapped in chat very frequently.

However I absolutely love the three different meta mwds, especially the addition of compact, and that there's a compelling reason to fit T2. Maybe just have all meta 5+ MWDs give 510% base speed boost? The cap penalty is already a strong reason to fit higher meta, it's not like these modules aren't in demand now.
prolix travail
Blue Mountain Trails
#117 - 2015-05-04 16:34:41 UTC
It looks like a nice change. Having options for fitting mwds appeals to me in particular; Do I need flat out speed or better fitting? maybe i need to be cap stable today? yeah, I like it a lot.

A few things:

Having the type of mod (restrained/compact) directly after the class (1mn/5mn etc..) would make it easier to search for.

Increasing speed is a little concerning, as others have said, particularly in the 5mn size bracket.

and

Will the new modules be made from bpcs or added to the loot table?

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#118 - 2015-05-04 16:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
SpaceSaft wrote:
I too like the 1mn mwd to 5mn mwd change.

I don't like much else about the naming though. Looks like obfuscating, nonhelpful fluff to me.

Could you try saying those names 5 times from memory without messing something up or forgetting words? Because I don't think you can.


1MN Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters.

10MN Y-T8 Monopropellant Thrusters.

100MN Quad LiF Booster Rockets.

10MN Monopropellant Hydrazine Boosters.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=708244#post708244

:negative: Challenge Failed. Was fun trying though. I liked me some Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters.

On-topic: Nice to see T2 will actually be worth using. Many thanks.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Phaade
Proioxis Assault Force
Rogue Caldari Union
#119 - 2015-05-04 16:45:11 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
so some simple math

your ship does 200m/s and you get a 500% speed boost, your ship now does 1200m/s
your ship does 200m/s and you get a 518% speed boost, your ship now does 1236m/s

is that really going to cause that much of an issue???

real ship example...
Crow,
base speed 637 and speed with mwd 4454
using a 518% and speed is 4762

so using a prop mod that's 4x the value of the ship gives you an extra 300m/s in an interceptor...

every day players wont notice much change. only the extreme edge cases will any difference be noticed , ie snake sets with full links and faction nano's with quafe...
its not going to change much at all


Yes... it is a problem... because your ship might do 450m/s

Then you add overheating and links and it's not just 36m/s....

CCP really should take their anvil off the gas and apply the brakes.
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#120 - 2015-05-04 16:50:00 UTC
Charlie Firpol wrote:
A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat.

Hrm, Can I see you friends math?

With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded



prolix travail wrote:
Will the new modules be made from bpcs or added to the loot table?

Good question! They are added to the loot table.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin