EVE General Discussion

Not quite there but try this:
- open loss mail
- near top right click Save Fitting
- open the list of saved fittings
- open the market (on the left, near the top click the Quickbar tab)
- drag fitting into Quickbar tab
- shopping list now made and you can sort by lowest price in that trade hub

Totally off topic...but still I had no idea about this. Thanks.

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I would do this by putting your pvpers into Np corps so it doesn't effect your all important kill ratios and letting them fight proxy wars...like all good nations do

- lower plex prices

- create your own ships - bring costs down

- allow for a more relaxed atmosphere in regards to failure (mistakes in eve are often unavoidable and a jump away)

- market manipulation using your numbers (set a day for it and have people come in and make some iskies)

- doctrines and stockpile cheap modules en masse when prices are good

Even MOBAs impose a time penalty on the loser and resource gain on the winner.

Fixed it for you.

You may proceed with ad hominem as much as you want. No matter how many people are mistaken, it won't make the wrong right, it won't make eve combat pvp accessible to less than 50 million SP toons (without use of SP wall leaping mechanics such as being extra weight or juicy bait in a fleet), it won't make success in such activity anything more than a mere exception of the harsh and undeniable general rule. Of course you all know it, just don't want to admit it, and take it out on people who can. Well, not like I really mind, it's just too funny to see so many supposedly adult people being so childish at something so trivial, like little kids throwing abuse at anyone who denies existence of Santa.

You can become better by learning the ropes, of course, but compared to force multiplication of Skill Points, it's just a drop in a sea. Every step you make can be trivially countered by having more SP, and as long as it is so, SP will remain the cornerstone, the strongest force multiplier, and the absolute wall denying any attempt of successful combat pvp (without use of SP wall leaping mechanics such as being extra weight or juicy bait in a fleet) to any younger toon. And of course, since everyone keeps progressing, the wall will get taller every year, we're lucky we only need 50-70 million SP now, because in a year the wall will probably add another 10 million your competition has gained, and the newbros will be screwed even harder than they are now.

The problem with eve combat pvp is not risk aversion, it's SP wall more than anything else. As long as you lack the SP wall leaping mechanic access, you WILL lose, and since your loss will be certain, it's not a matter of risk-reward equation - there is no risk and no reward in hitting your face against the SP wall, so it should not be surprising that people who don't want to become content won't do it - just because they gain NOTHING by it. 95% insurance, 99% insurance, 99.9% insurance won't solve it, as it's still a loss, and every time you taste it, it's like "haha noob below SP wall trying to pvp lol what a fool" feeling - exactly the one which puts a donkey donger on the dinner plate of player retention. Because why play if you will never (a few years are as good as ever for a typical gamer) win?

Bash this idea all you want, but winning is crucial for player retention, and in eve, it's the double miracle class exception to the iron rule to beat someone over SP wall with a toon below it. Many can certainly say that happened to them and that's because they stayed, which will not only prove the point about winning, but also will show exactly why the retention is so terrible that only people with double miracle class luck can stay, because those are your chances for "winning".

tl;dr The reason of poor retention is because people below SP wall will always lose, people hate losing, and losing less will not help it one bit.

While SP can be a contributing factor to the outcome of PvP it is not the only factor. If a high SP pilot shows up in a long range fit and goes up against a low SP pilot who is fit for close range and gets in under his guns...the result is not a forgone conclusion based on SP. There are a number of variables at play in determining the outcome of PvP...of which SP is one variable. To heap all explanatory power on just the one variable is foolish.

I like to take noobelahs out and shoot stuff but the truth of the matter is that the biggest problems I have had is when the bittervet of the group just puts crap on peeps over and over driving them away


then

they defend them selves with an eye roll saying "welcome to eve"...um...its a sandbox bro it is more then a griefers wet dream.

find you lemons OP and exile them or fix them

Then it's good I haven't done something foolish, which you would've known, if you could read the post before tl;dr

It properly explains why SP is the strongest factor, the strongest force multiplier of all - because even in your example, knowing that a long range ship will lose a brawl and stashing a brawling ship in case enemy will get a brawling ship is common sense - as long as both are in brawling ships, 1 million SP toon will be lucky to last 10 seconds against a 100 million SP toon, demonstrating to everybody and his dog quite clearly what was the winning factor there.

In case of double miracle of higher SP toon having a brain fart and going against common sense, I won't count it as the victory of the low SP toon - going against common sense is the same as self-destruction and the only role a low-sp toon had in it is happening to be there when it happened. This is pure luck, and if wins by pure luck can satisfy you, you might as well go play craps.

I underlined the SP wall leaping mechanics used, which proves my point that without it SP wall will smash your face.

And yes, exactly due to believing in crap like this, those Griffins end up on the green side of my alliance's killboard on practically daily basis.