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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#61 - 2015-04-27 12:16:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
There it is... "cheapens...low or null sec". This is just another "move everyone in high sec to low and null so we have more people to gank, since rental gaming is so BORING" thread. So, it's an impromptu conspiracy. Big smile


Lol, but no conspiracy. It does cheapen "outside of high sec" PVE. And the real 'conspiracy thinking' is the idea that anyone wants to 'push' people out of high sec. Frankly, no one gives a damn about where you play, and there are plenty enough targets for PVP players outside high sec so that "you just want to blow me up" idea is stupid.

The simple fact is this: it's wrong to be able to make the kind of income you can from simply joining an incursion fleet, following an anchor and pressing F1 (the only people that "work" are the FC and the logi guys) while being protected by CONCORD, when PVE activities outside of high sec (with a few exceptions) are not only NOT protected by CONCORD, but also pay less. And I know, I do all types of PVE including high sec incursions.

High sec incursions aren't the most unbalanced PVE activites in the game, that award goes to faction warfare missions when you can farm up crazy wealth with a cheap stealth bomber. But high sec incursions are unbalanced, period, no matter the "wahhh don't mess with my unbalanced income" crying by some incursion runners.

You are entitled to your opinion(s).



Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. What you aren't entitled to is your own facts. All I'm posting are facts about incursions vs other types of PVE in other places.

What you are doing is denying the truth because of a personal agenda (no different than what real life politicians do), and that makes you wrong. If you don't mind being wrong, then you will stick to your line of thinking. You will have lots of company on this forum lol.
Yes, everyone with an agenda couches their opinions as facts. I'm reminded of what a judge once said: "If the law is with you, pound on the law. If the facts are with you, pound on the facts. If neither are with you, pound on the table." Just hope more than a few can't see the difference.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Solecist Project
#62 - 2015-04-27 12:17:25 UTC
Brutus Utama wrote:
Love how the OP is moaning about carebears... where do all your ships come from? and the mods? from the carebears who mine and build them.... eve without carebears you would all be stuck for ships and stuff.....

back on topic never done incursion its never bothered me i have no opinion on them....

Thanks

Another delusional carebear argument.
Just so you know, if carebears stopped mining and building ships
then the rest of the player base would start doing it, because it would be worth it.

The difference is that those who aren't carebears know how not to die
and don't whine about other people playing the game as it's intended!

Mining and manufcturing aren't "carebear activities" per se,
they are simply mostly done by them because these people are carebears!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#63 - 2015-04-27 12:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#64 - 2015-04-27 12:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
So, if it can be done ... why do you need that bet?

The only thing that keeps you from needing to prove your bullshit ...
... is the fact that most people including me don't have 100 billion ISK.

You just once more prove that you are a bullshitter.

There is no need for that bet.

Prove that I'm wrong.
You say you can do it so do it.

Show us how you are better than the rest.

Everything else is just plain bullshitting.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#65 - 2015-04-27 12:26:46 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Yes, everyone with an agenda couches their opinions as facts. I'm reminded of what a judge once said: "If the law is with you, pound on the law. If the facts are with you, pound on the facts. If neither are with you, pound on the table." Just hope more than a few can't see the difference.


That's a long winded way of saying nothing. It's the equivalent of doing this.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#66 - 2015-04-27 12:29:33 UTC
i too want to see youtube video of blown up machariel/vindi and logi fleet in highsec Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2015-04-27 12:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: FunGu Arsten
Solecist Project wrote:
So, if it can be done ... why do you need that bet?

The only thing that keeps you from needing to prove your bullshit ...
... is the fact that most people including me don't have 100 billion ISK.

You just once more prove that you are a bullshitter.

There is no need for that bet.

Prove that I'm wrong.
You say you can do it so do it.

Everything else is just plain bullshitting.


because the most effective way is exposing my alts that will then be banned, that 100bil will get me the new alts to return to incursions in all communities when needed...

You're telling me i'm talking out of my ass, I know i can do it, however I'd rather not destroy ships of pilots i fly with on a weekly base... so when and if i do - i'll use alts that i can then sell and replace...

Coming to a discussion and saying NO it cant be done isn't a disscussion... just a rant of someone who is in an emotional state of butthurt.

you had your point that incursions are easy but you are turning to childisch cries as people are making logical points, bringup argument and counter-arguments.


Bottom line: incursion are easy, no risk in the pve aspect, everyone has an alt farming isk and gankers have better targets ( collect the loot after gank) though! you can very effectly **** a fleet over if you are willing to get that alt banned from incursions.... now find a few friends that want to burn down incursions and you can collect isk and tears howeverlong you feel like it.

added: bring up some game mechanical / logical argument of why you can't mess with incursionrunners and i might drop the bet number to something more affordable.. i'm always in for iskdoubling through chribba
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#68 - 2015-04-27 12:35:44 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...


Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits.

The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec).

People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!".

Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities.
2Sonas1Cup
#69 - 2015-04-27 12:37:13 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
i too want to see youtube video of blown up machariel/vindi and logi fleet in highsec Cool


Just wait 5 more years.

FunGu Arsten is planning.


Or should we say,.. hes planning to kill his own fleet because hes a incursion FC.

And then show us on the forums that incursioners arent safe and the isks we make in highsec incursions is balanced.
Solecist Project
#70 - 2015-04-27 12:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
And still you ignore actual reality.

If it could be done ...
... people would do it.

Continuously, I might add.

I refuse to keep repeating myself over and over ...
... just because you ignore reality.

Prove it can be done.
Show us what everyone else is doing wrong.
Show us there's a point to even trying.

Or stop talking out of your ass.

kthxdie. ingame, of course.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2015-04-27 12:37:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...


Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits.

The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec).

People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!".

Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities.


nothing but "agreed" on this one
Solecist Project
#72 - 2015-04-27 12:40:17 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...


Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits.

The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec).

People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!".

Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities.

Can confirm this bug.
Happened in dodixie.
The Search Party 2/2.

Funnily enough it was rather easy to run with a speedtanking rifter and a cane.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2015-04-27 12:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: FunGu Arsten
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i too want to see youtube video of blown up machariel/vindi and logi fleet in highsec Cool


Just wait 5 more years.

FunGu Arsten is planning.


Or should we say,.. hes planning to kill his own fleet because hes a incursion FC.

And then show us on the forums that incursioners arent safe and the isks we make in highsec incursions is balanced.



lol, actualy as said before it isn't balanced, the isk injection is stupid high for no risk. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to do it - aka: milk the cow.

as for burning down a full hq fleet: get 4-5 logi alts, fly incursions for a couple of days on each. On one particular sunny afternoon get all logis in the fleet and stop repping in a TCRC, abandon wrecks when popped * bring in neutral tanked ROKH fit with salvager and tractorbeams

Collect billions - while you rep yourself - when done colllecting free loot, align out and when the rokh is taking scrams warp out 4 -5 logis and sacrifice the hero rokh after you've stored loot in the logis.

\O/ see some chat channels close on you while you count the isk.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#74 - 2015-04-27 12:48:16 UTC
FunGu Arsten wrote:

lol, actualy as said before it isn't balanced, the isk injection is stupid high for no risk. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to do it - aka: milk the cow.


That's what I do, because I don't see it changing.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#75 - 2015-04-27 12:51:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...


Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits.

The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec).

People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!".

Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities.


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Zerlick
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2015-04-27 12:54:12 UTC
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Or drastically drop their payouts not the point of killing them but to a more balanced level compared to other highsec activities.

Highsec Incursions payout WAY too much for the risk and time you take.

Many people run incursions to plex accounts log out for the month.

Theres little to no incentive to do anything else in the game once you start running incursions, you wont stop, and you will not do anything else other than your casual pvp on a random alt when the opportunity arises.

Incursions are a decease, they are killing/killed a major part of the game, took the need of doing and trying different things to make isks.

Hell theres not even a reason to leave highsec anymore, whats the incentive of null when you can make as much or even more in the safety of highsec?


Please put an end to incursions, its been far too long already, sanshas must go.



Then you do something else? You don't have to go to 0.0. How is it a bother for you that people like doing incursion. I man they way I feel is this; I'm paying for this game if I want to log in once a month to so incursions I'll do that

And if you feel strongly about it move to 0.0 yourself
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#77 - 2015-04-27 12:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...


Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits.

The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec).

People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!".

Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities.


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#78 - 2015-04-27 13:04:02 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.


People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn...


Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits.

The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec).

People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!".

Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities.


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it
I'll bet he's entitled to his opinion, too! Shocked

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#79 - 2015-04-27 13:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...


whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it


Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat?

There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec...

EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones in lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#80 - 2015-04-27 13:07:31 UTC
FunGu Arsten wrote:
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i too want to see youtube video of blown up machariel/vindi and logi fleet in highsec Cool


Just wait 5 more years.

FunGu Arsten is planning.


Or should we say,.. hes planning to kill his own fleet because hes a incursion FC.

And then show us on the forums that incursioners arent safe and the isks we make in highsec incursions is balanced.



lol, actualy as said before it isn't balanced, the isk injection is stupid high for no risk. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to do it - aka: milk the cow.

as for burning down a full hq fleet: get 4-5 logi alts, fly incursions for a couple of days on each. On one particular sunny afternoon get all logis in the fleet and stop repping in a TCRC, abandon wrecks when popped * bring in neutral tanked ROKH fit with salvager and tractorbeams

Collect billions - while you rep yourself - when done colllecting free loot, align out and when the rokh is taking scrams warp out 4 -5 logis and sacrifice the hero rokh after you've stored loot in the logis.

\O/ see some chat channels close on you while you count the isk.

Thanks for posting how you would do it.

I can see that you agree the risk is pretty much non existant,
because this approach ... fully legitimate ... is a one trick pony ...
... which needs a huge amount of investment for a one time thing.


Any other ideas that could actually have an impact?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia