Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If only there was another use for T1 modules besides fitting them to ships. If only...

You really don't know what it is, do you?

There are a few things that T1 mods are used for, T2 production springs to mind (probably the biggest consumer of T1 mods). But if someone is into T2 production then (myself as an example) likely it will be cheaper for them to crank out their own T1 module using their likely researched BPO.

So I don't see the benefit to T1 Production here either. Set up BPO to run X number of T1 mods based on the required amount from your T2 BPC...why use a middleman?

There is that as well. By increasing player density in null, the idea will be that current sov holding alliances will pull inwards...this will free up currently held space. Meaning, there is opportunity for people to move into those vacant systems and reap the rewards they are currently complaining about.

Of course, that will mean effort...significant effort over living in HS where you can do just fine even staying in a Noob corp and not doing anything with anyone else in the game. As was pointed out, 200 guys going out and whacking a d**kstar for an hour or more means you have 200 or more man hours there. That is alot of effort. What should that alliance get for that effort? A similar income as a guy who semi-afk mines or does t2 invention in HS and doesn't interact with anyone in the game ever? How about "no" as an answer?

Actually, in this particular case, you'd probably want to upship to cruisers, or maybe a BC, rather than dessies.

However, in high sec, you rarely run across a fully tanked Skiff - most of them compromise the tank by having some sort of mining upgrade somewhere in the fit. And, they almost never overheat - high sec miners tend to be simi-AFK, probably haven't trained up Thermodynamics, and/or simply forget (or don't know) how to overheat their modules. Most high sec miners have very limited experience with PVP, you know.

Ok, I really was not planning to get involved again, but let's be clear: This is an entirely useless statement.

If you wanted to go this route the appropriate calculation should have been:

((Covertor Isk Cost / (Average number of hours between being suicide ganked in a Covetor) - ((Covetor Mining Rate - Skiff Mining Rate) Isk/Hr)) = X

If X is greater than 0, Covetor mining is economical compared to skiffs. If it is negative, Skiff is the winner.

Second, at a quick glance, EFT tells me that a Covetor gets almost exactly 20% yield more than a Skiff, while a fully fit Covetor costs 50 million.

So are you seriously telling me the 20% increase from Skiff to Covetor allows you to pay off a 50 mil isk Covetor in 3-5 hours of mining?

That means the skiff in highsec is pulling in 50-83 million an hour! WHAT? That doesn't resemble the 20 million isk/hour numbers I hear tossed around all the time by highsec miners!

I CALL COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT.

But I forgive you, since

I call your bullshit and raise you a numerical disability.

First, I never lost a barge. Not even once. Put infinity in your (Average number of hours between being suicide ganked in a Covetor) variable and enjoy.

Second, BEFORE the announcement of change, mining hovered at 35-40 million ISK per hour (full yield, orca buffs, scordite), 20% of that in 5 hours is 100%, adding here that your full fit Covetor at 50 million is overpriced (base hull 32 + 3x3 modulated strip miners + 2x0.5 MLU = 42, and rigs are dirt cheap) and 20% advantage is over yield Skiff as opposed to proposed tank Skiff, not even mentioning skillpoint requirements difference, I say that I were completely right.

5 hours is the perfect case, but knowing that Skiff loses a lot more ore on an incomplete cycle and while you switch targets, and there are things like rorqual buffs and pre-announcement gneiss, 3 hours is the opposite case, also quite right.

There is a reason only numerically enabled people can mine.

Yeah, I call bullshit on 40m isk/hr.

Prices for trit/pyer have not changed significantly since any of the announcements, so using modern numbers is fine here. A covetor fit for full yield and perfect orca bonuses only hits 2485 m^3/minute: http://i.imgur.com/qPP0zAs.jpg

Plug that into eve-industry.org's mining profit calculator: http://i.imgur.com/cow0jvt.png?1

Less than 30m isk/hr, and that relies on refining at a POS for the extra yield. This is also an optimistic figure due to the occasional incomplete cycle.

This is a 25% reduction in what you were claiming.

Also, a yield skiff has 90k EHP (before shield bonuses), and a yield of 2229, which is within 10% of the covetor. This works out to a 3m isk/hr yield bonus for the covetor. This works out to 14 hours of mining to "self-gank" a covetor.

Buried in the noise. The fail-tank Retrivers, Macks, Covs and Hulks are a lot easier to kill with only 1-2 dessies and with much less prep time, so you'll see a ton more of them for each Skiff kill.

I know there has been a lot of random junk in this thread, but hopefully you're still reading. It's time for me to give some constructive feedback for your consideration.

Mercoxit

I believe that we need a strong candidate to make cherry picking (or "Ninja Mining") a profession, and Mercoxit would serve that purpose greatly. Morphite is also greatly oversupplied at the moment and is a near negligible cost in t2 equipment. Therefore, I'm suggesting that we completely remove Mercoxit from all ore anoms that spawn from nullsec industrial upgrades. Here's why:

Oversupply
As nullsec mining becomes more worthwhile, more people will be stripping and cycling ore anomalies. With a consistent cycling of belts, the supply of Mercoxit/Morphite will continue to increase, further dunking the price. Mercoxit alone is large (40m3), but compressed Mercoxit is only 0.1 m3 (wtf?), so it is exceptionally easy to get to an upgraded refinery and ship to empire. This means that most mercoxit mined will easily get to market.

Low Income per Hour
While an individual Mercoxit rock is "valuable", Mercoxit is 40m3 per unit. Furthermore, Mercoxit is mined significantly slower than any other ore.

A fully boosted hulk mines ore at about 3421 m3/min excluding drones.

A fully boosted hulk with mercoxit rig mines Mercoxit at about 2165 m3/min (drones are not possible). This means that you're mining about 54 units of mercoxit a minute in a hulk, equating to approximately 8262 units of morphite every hour- approximately 57 mil per hour assuming you have a hauler.

As the refine rate of mercoxit increases from 293->300 and as the overall supply increases, that isk per hour will fall even further. A max hulk pilot can make upwards of 70 mil isk/hr on other ores with existing prices. (note: not many people use hulks in null because of clicks and risk)

Suggestion
Remove mercoxit from all ore anomalies. Leave mercoxit in static belts and in scannable sites in nullsec. Reduce the m3 on mercoxit to a reasonable size that allows for smaller (ninja) ships to mine it. Perhaps give a mercoxit mining bonus to mining frigates.

Potential Results
In making those changes, Mercoxit will turn cherry picking into a profession. There will be meaningful rewards in any player traversing nullsec looking for Mercoxit deposits and scan-able sites with Mercoxit. There are no sites that currently are a huge "win" for a miner or explorer- but making this change would enable the mining types to have "jackpots" where they have potential to make some serious ISK mining Mercoxit. This would also make it worthwhile for anyone in the game to scan down wormholes and seek out mercoxit in wh space- even for highsec miners.

Arkonor/Bistot
I would not consider these ores of being worthy of ninja-mining even with the upcoming changes. There will be a consistent supply of Arkonor/Bistot coming from ore anoms, and without mining boosts, the income of ninja mining Arkonor and Bistot would still be pretty low for an individual account.



A change such as the above would give all players an opportunity to do some high risk ninja-mining that would lead to greater rewards, rather than making all mining a rather repetitive task with no real chance of "hitting it big".


Thanks to Querns for helping with this data.