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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

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Author
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#741 - 2015-05-03 03:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Maradusa Macarthy
when it happens , it happens! Twisted
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#742 - 2015-05-03 05:06:25 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
]Well, not exactly true. The static belts in nul have no proximity and grouping to be effectively mining efficient. In comparision, old anoms and high security static belts have higher mining efficiency, with much fewer warp-in locations required to mine the entire belt. Ores in nul static belts are sometimes spread out over vast distances; anomalies and high-sec belts are nothing like that, making them much easier to mine to completion.

Assuming Orca boosts that don't even need to be maxed, a group of barges starting at warp in can start mining instantly and will never need to warp to find fresh targets providing they move efficiently through the belt in a pattern rather than random directions.
Well, at the least most belts. I did a survey of Null belts and it was very rare that any rocks were more than 50k off the belt, and orca boosts put you up into being able to find a mid point so when rocks on one side run out you switch to the other side.
If there are rocks which are very inconvenient, you simply leave them, since you don't need to mine your belts out for downtime respawn.

There is no reason high sec mining belts have a higher mining efficiency. The whole 'never touch belts' thing actually came from when Anoms were Sigs instead, so mining in a belt meant people could find you without probes, while mining in a sig was safer.
Additionally those guides tend to have been written 4-5 years ago before Null massively overmined ABC's and crashed the price, so stripping the Sigs was actually significantly more valuable, and ore compression was terrible as was refining at the time.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#743 - 2015-05-03 08:23:30 UTC
If anyone wishes to compare the new per ore volumes per ore anomaly, the old ones can be found here - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1205/Bloodtear_Industy_Index_Report_v3.pdf
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#744 - 2015-05-04 16:40:37 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
]Well, not exactly true. The static belts in nul have no proximity and grouping to be effectively mining efficient. In comparision, old anoms and high security static belts have higher mining efficiency, with much fewer warp-in locations required to mine the entire belt. Ores in nul static belts are sometimes spread out over vast distances; anomalies and high-sec belts are nothing like that, making them much easier to mine to completion.

Assuming Orca boosts that don't even need to be maxed, a group of barges starting at warp in can start mining instantly and will never need to warp to find fresh targets providing they move efficiently through the belt in a pattern rather than random directions.
Well, at the least most belts. I did a survey of Null belts and it was very rare that any rocks were more than 50k off the belt, and orca boosts put you up into being able to find a mid point so when rocks on one side run out you switch to the other side.
If there are rocks which are very inconvenient, you simply leave them, since you don't need to mine your belts out for downtime respawn.

There is no reason high sec mining belts have a higher mining efficiency. The whole 'never touch belts' thing actually came from when Anoms were Sigs instead, so mining in a belt meant people could find you without probes, while mining in a sig was safer.
Additionally those guides tend to have been written 4-5 years ago before Null massively overmined ABC's and crashed the price, so stripping the Sigs was actually significantly more valuable, and ore compression was terrible as was refining at the time.
Okay??? So, what if anything I stated is incorrect?

"I did a survey of Null belts and it was very rare that any rocks were more than 50k off the belt" Do you have a link to your survey data or are you just speculating? It sounds like you are trying to be rather specific.

I suppose I could clarify. In my experience (system class J5 thru J7; -0.6 or better quality systems), my limited amount of mining experience in nul taught me some of the best belts you will want to mine are spread out much too far apart from belt bookmark/warpin to apply to your comments. The rocks in those cases are as I described 'sometimes spread out over vast distances'; thus the reasoning that trying to mine those very large belts to completion can seem problematic, esp when a random npc elite frigates/cruisers spawn nearby can prevent you from warping out if you are not careful. And the fact that most of the time, a small or medium ore anomaly has spawned in your constellation or 'favorite systems' via upgrades.
Thanatos Harbinger
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#745 - 2015-05-04 22:26:00 UTC
I would like to go out on a limb and probably disagree with most of the people here:

I hate what has been done here! It has taken the brain work out of mining, the point of EvE is it is meant to be an intellectual game and I relished the idea that the most efficient way gather minerals to make a ship was not always the most obvious way and now that you've done this you've turned it into a brainless game that can be done more easily by bots. It also annoys me how much mineral compositions of ores has actually been nerfed! For example Zydrine concentrations in Crokite at 100% were 25units per m^3, now it is less than 10 (9.375)!! Not only this but you have removed almost all of the other ores that you could get it from, making Low-Sec mining pretty much pointless seeing as you can barely get Zydrine and most definitely not Megacyte. The fact that you could get these, albeit in low concentrations in LS made it viable to mine therein whereas now if you don't hold sovereignty you might as well say "Bye-Bye" to your mining operations.

Ok, exaggerations I am still unhappy that you've taken the "guess-work" out of mining meta-game and how much you have nerfed mineral compositions of ores now too. We don't need more Tritanium in ores! We don't really need more Pyerite in Null ores, not at the cost of Zyd and Mega atleast!!

Thanatos (angrily) out, o7
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#746 - 2015-05-05 15:31:23 UTC
Thanatos Harbinger wrote:


Ok, exaggerations I am still unhappy that you've taken the "guess-work" out of mining meta-game and how much you have nerfed mineral compositions of ores now too. We don't need more Tritanium in ores! We don't really need more Pyerite in Null ores, not at the cost of Zyd and Mega atleast!!

Thanatos (angrily) out, o7


This gentleman missed the point entirely. vOv
El Durango
Doomheim
#747 - 2015-05-06 02:25:01 UTC
Mining in high sec is safe and easy. Mining in Null is a smaller market and risky dangerous. Nothing worse than a couple campers maroon in a crew of miners in station for an hour. You need guns in null to win. These changes seem to be to adjust the market...not affect mining mechanics or game play. It won't change much of anything.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#748 - 2015-05-06 03:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
El Durango wrote:
Mining in high sec is safe and easy. Mining in Null is a smaller market and risky dangerous. Nothing worse than a couple campers maroon in a crew of miners in station for an hour. You need guns in null to win. These changes seem to be to adjust the market...not affect mining mechanics or game play. It won't change much of anything.


I beg to differ, the critical mass is rising - https://element-43.com/market/36/

• 0.0 Deklein - YA0-XJ VII - YA0GT 610,902,255 1 44.00 4 hours ago
• 0.0 Feythabolis - NLO-3Z VI - NLO 2,602,123 1 40.00 3 hours ago •
• 0.0 Catch - GJ0-OJ IV - T 1,557,703 1 40.00 3 hours ago
• 0.0 Catch - 4-07MU V - TT 3,725,763 1 40.00 3 hours ago
• 0.0 Querious - B-7DFU IV - N0GUN 7,294,353 1 43.00 4 hours ago •
• 0.0 Deklein - K5F-Z2 VIII - K5D 2,817,579 1 44.00 4 hours ago

And even more of Pyerite.

You need 85-94 mil of Mex to build a Supercarrier, around 300 mil for a Titan, 5 mil for a Carrier, 10 mil for a Dreadnaught and under 750k units for a Battleship. Pirate

Sweet, sweet Gneiss. Sweet, Sweet Spodumain. Cool

P.S. I've made a more thorough post here - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5724294#post5724294

There are tons and tons of Tritanium and Pyerite now.
El Durango
Doomheim
#749 - 2015-05-06 10:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: El Durango
Regardless...High sec is safer. Sometimes any risk is too high, and in high the profits are easy. Miners mine, they build if they choose but many are just supply side.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#750 - 2015-05-06 22:38:01 UTC
I'd keep my eye on the NS Buy orders instead, if you're genuinely interested - if people think they can get the volumes that they need and those orders get filled, even in part, then it can become an avalanche. Blink
Synikk
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#751 - 2015-06-22 00:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Synikk
sorry if this has already been asked.... but i didnt feel like trolling through 38 pages of comments to find out... and figured here would be a good place to ask..

i occasionally use the Dedaf's industrial tool spreadsheet, does anyone know if there's a new version to incorporate these ore changes in the maths?

edit: never mind... found a page with an updated version.... thanks anyways guys Blink
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#752 - 2015-08-10 00:42:23 UTC
Drone Plague wrote:
Null mining will not be a thing until you make it possible. Currently an interceptor can be in system and in the belt/anoms in under 30 seconds. change them so that all belts/anoms need to be scanned down first.

Null mining will also not be viable until you fix the Rorqual. Currently, it is a useless capital as it not even any good for pos deployment anymore.
^^ This.

Although not just for nul, mining is in general going in a bad direction due to the change of mining signatures to anomalies. The extra effort required for all involved parties ensures they really do want access to that content for mining ore/ice, pve, or pvp.

Require scouts for pvp wanting to find miners train exploration and fit for finding those mining signatures and in-turn miners. Any miner in a signature that does not use d-scan to see probes, pay attention to the free intel of local chat, or use other methods will get caught out. But at least make it possible again to do this.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#753 - 2015-08-19 13:16:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're very interested to hear from miners, nullsec industrialists and prospective nullsec industrialists. Let us know how you view these changes and how you would like to see them changed to better meet your needs. Thanks!
I moved back to highsec over a year ago. No, I say no to mining missions, asteroid belts, and ore anoms. Invention, trade, and production keep my activity low. Give me a reason to log on to mine. Change ore anomalies back to signatures.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#754 - 2015-09-29 09:03:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're very interested to hear from miners
Bit late imho.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#755 - 2015-10-01 09:35:15 UTC
CCP removed the sandbox by controlling how we play.. Step back, be neutral, and let people do what they want, because ultimately if it is no longer fun, they stop playing the game.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#756 - 2015-10-01 10:53:44 UTC
Are you ill?

Travelling at the speed of love.

DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#757 - 2015-10-10 05:03:11 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Are you ill?

Nice obvious troll post. Get a life. No I am not ill, CCP knows of what I speak. This post was not for you, go back to your basement you troll.
DrysonBennington
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#758 - 2015-10-10 10:24:21 UTC
The cure for Mercoxit and Morphite?

Make it a much needed mineral for operations in high sec so that it will become valuable.

Maybe make Morphite one of the main minerals that goes into fuel production or alloys for the new platforms such as the Mining Platform