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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

First post First post First post
Author
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#541 - 2015-04-22 03:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Rowells wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Rowells wrote:
You mean those four orders?


What was the volume? I'm curious.

Must've been a whole 10,000 of Tritanium. Shocked

410k amongst the four.


Attention STOP THE PRESSES Attention

A whole 3.4% of the total Trit amount needed to build one Battleship has been found in Nullsecks!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#542 - 2015-04-22 04:11:43 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Rowells wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Rowells wrote:
You mean those four orders?


What was the volume? I'm curious.

Must've been a whole 10,000 of Tritanium. Shocked

410k amongst the four.


Attention STOP THE PRESSES Attention

A whole 3.4% of the total Trit amount needed to build one Battleship has been found in Nullsecks!


I have been watching this thread since page 12...and goddamn Querns, GankYou, Anhenka, et. al. have been rope-a-doping just about all the high sec people.

Well done.....and if you are part of the et. al., sorry don't mean to give short shrift to your contributions they are good too. Mr Omniblivion, Rowells, EvilweaselSA, Gallowmere, and HarlyQ to name some of the people with good comments.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Basil Pupkin
Strategic Incompetence
#543 - 2015-04-22 04:17:31 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Amusing idea. But, what happens if someone flips the can? Does the mining ship just stop moving or does it sail off out of the belt?

Same as orbiting a ship that gets popped. Sail out. I'm sure he doesn't mind doing it with style in his Skiff.
EvilweaselSA wrote:

ladies and gentlemen, our mining expert, who doesn't know how much of a benefit a skiff has over a procurer, who believes the only way to mine safely is to fit for max yield, who can't figure out how to use a can, and who has no idea that it's not 2012

oh, also, he believes that regions that have more bot miners would have more expensive trit than regions that had less bot miners in nullsec, for some reason that is beyond us mortals

Usual gewnspeak, trying to troll, ignoring everything, typical density and no-brain show.
Once again, for special people, and those who are below them, and gewns who are below those:
1) There are no meaningful advantages of Skiff over Procurer.
2) If something attacks the miner and it's not a low-dps rat, the miner is dead, no matter what he pilots.
3) The only defense against said attack is lessen the exposure. Which means mine for less time, compensating with efficiency.
4) Cans are cretin magnets. Use them to bring 1001 ganktards to your belt. Orbiting doesn't work since you're dead no matter what you do if you're hit.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#544 - 2015-04-22 04:29:12 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

I have been watching this thread since page 12...and goddamn Querns, GankYou, Anhenka, et. al. have been rope-a-doping just about all the high sec people.

Well done.....and if you are part of the et. al., sorry don't mean to give short shrift to your contributions they are good too. Mr Omniblivion, Rowells, EvilweaselSA, Gallowmere, and HarlyQ to name some of the people with good comments.

It's what I do.

The dirty secret here is that none of these people are actually "high sec people" — they're anti-nullsec people.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station
Goonswarm Federation
#545 - 2015-04-22 04:50:54 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Amusing idea. But, what happens if someone flips the can? Does the mining ship just stop moving or does it sail off out of the belt?

Same as orbiting a ship that gets popped. Sail out. I'm sure he doesn't mind doing it with style in his Skiff.
EvilweaselSA wrote:

ladies and gentlemen, our mining expert, who doesn't know how much of a benefit a skiff has over a procurer, who believes the only way to mine safely is to fit for max yield, who can't figure out how to use a can, and who has no idea that it's not 2012

oh, also, he believes that regions that have more bot miners would have more expensive trit than regions that had less bot miners in nullsec, for some reason that is beyond us mortals

Usual gewnspeak, trying to troll, ignoring everything, typical density and no-brain show.
Once again, for special people, and those who are below them, and gewns who are below those:
1) There are no meaningful advantages of Skiff over Procurer.
2) If something attacks the miner and it's not a low-dps rat, the miner is dead, no matter what he pilots.
3) The only defense against said attack is lessen the exposure. Which means mine for less time, compensating with efficiency.
4) Cans are cretin magnets. Use them to bring 1001 ganktards to your belt. Orbiting doesn't work since you're dead no matter what you do if you're hit.

You have obviously never watched ganking then because it does fail. Kinda like your horrible posting.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#546 - 2015-04-22 06:03:00 UTC
Querns wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

I have been watching this thread since page 12...and goddamn Querns, GankYou, Anhenka, et. al. have been rope-a-doping just about all the high sec people.

Well done.....and if you are part of the et. al., sorry don't mean to give short shrift to your contributions they are good too. Mr Omniblivion, Rowells, EvilweaselSA, Gallowmere, and HarlyQ to name some of the people with good comments.

It's what I do.

The dirty secret here is that none of these people are actually "high sec people" — they're anti-nullsec people.


Why would I be anti-nullsec? I believe the game needs every region to be healthy and draw different kinds of players to the game. I'm just not convinced that this change is a great idea. This actually gets reinforced by the vociferous support from those who will benefit the most. I'm also uncomfortable that players have been able to invest heavily in a commodity available in only one section of space. That smacks of insider trading, especially when you keep mentioning that there is an over abundance of high ends in null compared to low ends. This is tantamount to throwing a stack of ISK at those who already have (or have much easier access to) those high ends.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#547 - 2015-04-22 06:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm also uncomfortable that players have been able to invest heavily in a commodity available in only one section of space.


You mean like all of the Fleet, Navy, Federation issue ships, modules and ammo? Blink

Quote:
That smacks of insider trading, especially when you keep mentioning that there is an over abundance of high ends in null compared to low ends. This is tantamount to throwing a stack of ISK at those who already have (or have much easier access to) those high ends.


Don't think that you're applying the term "insider trading" corrently here. However, if you do actually put the whole weight into the meaning, I refer you to this post, where everyone with the eyes to see saw it coming - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5675444#post5675444

I myself am a pirate on the high seas of Hisecks Market PvP. Pirate
Mario Putzo
#548 - 2015-04-22 06:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Querns wrote:

The rub on JFs is while they currently enable nullsec to function, it's not without a cost. Currently, I pay 300 isk per m^3 to have things shipped from empire to nullsec, and that is to Deklein, a region that is 2j from empire. If you wanna see some serious highway robbery, check out Black Frog's freight costs. Everything coming into nullsec has that tax applied to it. Meanwhile, highsec enjoys a vast ecosystem of considerably safer and significantly cheaper public courier services.

The changes described in the OP help to lessen the need of nullsec on the almighty jump freighter by not only improving nullsec mineral compositions, but also by making it not such an obviously terrible economic bargain to do so.

Also, gun mining died much earlier, when CCP removed the vast majority of t1 drops from rats. Meta drops refine for a LOT fewer minerals.


Booohooo you have to pay ISK for a service that people ask more of because of the risk. CCP doesn't force you to use Black Frog, You choose to. You could mine the minerals in Deklein (i know :effort:) but you don't.

A) Because your miners are not afforded any real protection outside of numbers in local
B) Because your alliance does not actively contribute to funding mining and industry (import its better isk/hr right).
C) Because your members are at constant risk of AWOX
D) Because of the above more people leave NS mining in Deklein and less people venture into it.

In regards to gun mining...if it was dead why did CCP just nerf it by 45% last spring?

You don't know much about production do you, after all you seem to be under the impression there exists a Blue Print that can build anything in the game if you throw enough isk at it. T1 production walks a very finite line between worth it and not worth it, the changes to production costs make it very much not worth it (if they remain as stands).

If this is really a NS change for more self sufficiency, less dependency on JFs from HS, why does the Zydrine and Megacyte change need to exist at all? It doesn't offer anything to their desired change...except prompt people into doing JF runs from NS to HS.

Its just nonsense and will only drive T1 production (in LS and HS) down as a result of increase Meta module costs which is going to happen because HS folks only source of Mega and Zydrine is from gun mining. Which means HS producers will drive up the price through consumption and reprocessing, and thats not even the end of it, once folks realize making T1 mods is a waste of cash (which it nearly is right now anyway), then Faction stuff will start to rise in price...which means more LP grinding...how do you get LP? Missions which seed Meta Mods (yay!), but you still need T1 mods...Game of Alts indeed. If folks in NS don't have a mission running alt, or Incursion alt...you should get one, because having the monopoly on readily available T1 mods, gives you a nice foothold in the Faction Mod market. Which ultimately is contradictory to the whole "get people into NS" thing, since doing missions and making T1 mods from your reprocessed loot into faction mods from your earned LP is going to eclipse anything production wise in NS. To the point you will be quite able to afford importing anything you want from HS through Black Frog.

This isn't rocket science man.

Im happy CCP is tweaking NS ore, but they are being very short sighted with the changes to production requirements. The latter is an unneeded change to accomplish their set goals.
Mario Putzo
#549 - 2015-04-22 06:33:20 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm also uncomfortable that players have been able to invest heavily in a commodity available in only one section of space.


You mean like all of the Fleet, Navy, Federation issue ships, modules and ammo? Blink


HS + LS = 2.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#550 - 2015-04-22 06:44:01 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm also uncomfortable that players have been able to invest heavily in a commodity available in only one section of space.


You mean like all of the Fleet, Navy, Federation issue ships, modules and ammo? Blink

Quote:
That smacks of insider trading, especially when you keep mentioning that there is an over abundance of high ends in null compared to low ends. This is tantamount to throwing a stack of ISK at those who already have (or have much easier access to) those high ends.


Don't think that you're applying the term "insider trading" corrently here. However, if you do actually put the whole weight into the meaning, I refer you to this post, where everyone with the eyes to see saw it coming - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5675444#post5675444

I myself am a pirate on the high seas of Hisecks Market PvP. Pirate


Every one saw it coming but the amount available in hisec was limited whereas those in heavily defended nullsec space could think 'hey lets mine the **** out of meg and zyd ores before they become rare and then refine it later when prices spike (with our much better refining rate to boot!)'...

I'm also not convinced about the 'cut reliance on jf's' argument. Unless the change produces enough minerals to be highly self sufficient then jf runs are still going to be required. However once you have the logistics route recipe planned it's just a case of executing the plan over and over. It will still be easier, faster, less boring and less risk to pull everything in from hisec.

I don't see this achieving much beyond giving some people a big income boost. I would have preferred ore rebalancing to come from the drilling platform structures in some way instead.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#551 - 2015-04-22 07:12:37 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm also uncomfortable that players have been able to invest heavily in a commodity available in only one section of space.


You mean like all of the Fleet, Navy, Federation issue ships, modules and ammo? Blink


HS + LS = 2.



Yes! One brotherhood of the Empire! ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#552 - 2015-04-22 07:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Every one saw it coming but the amount available in hisec was limited whereas those in heavily defended nullsec space could think 'hey lets mine the **** out of meg and zyd ores before they become rare and then refine it later when prices spike (with our much better refining rate to boot!)'...


Don't go there.

I was getting multi-million in units buy orders filled non-stop at 630 p/u just a day before April 1st. After I bought out the whole Empire on March 20th. P

It is possible, yes, that after the Fanfest on the 19th of March some shrewd entities started stacking said ores, but given the abysmal mineral prices at that time, I'd imagine there wasn't much mining going on prior to this.

And why would you stack Crokite? If you didn't refine it then, you surely are going to refine it before the patch, otherwise you're stuck with your Nocxiums. Big smile

Interesting question, though - would ores, which had been mined pre-patch retain their mineral compositions, or is the new changes going to overwrite these? Smile

As an example: AFAIR the ships which had been produced prior to the Tiericide still retained the old mineral bill of materials, so you couldn't refine them into moar mineralulz.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#553 - 2015-04-22 07:43:32 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Every one saw it coming but the amount available in hisec was limited whereas those in heavily defended nullsec space could think 'hey lets mine the **** out of meg and zyd ores before they become rare and then refine it later when prices spike (with our much better refining rate to boot!)'...


Don't go there.

I was getting multi-million in units buy orders filled non-stop at 630 p/u just a day before April 1st. After I bought out the whole Empire on March 20th. P

It is possible, yes, that after the Fanfest on the 19th of March some shrewd entities started stacking said ores, but given the abysmal mineral prices at that time, I'd imagine there wasn't much mining going on prior to this.

And why would you stack Crokite? If you didn't refine it then, you surely are going to refine it before the patch, otherwise you're stuck with your Nocxiums. Big smile

Interesting question, though - would ores, which had been mined pre-patch retain their mineral compositions, or is the new changes going to overwrite these? Smile

As an example: AFAIR the ships which had been produced prior to the Tiericide still retained the old mineral bill of materials, so you couldn't refine them into moar mineralulz.


Ironically you probably filled those orders from someone in null who should have stockpiled Big smile

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of the changes but I doubt it will be the hoped for outcome (damned players are inventive and have there own ideas...)
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#554 - 2015-04-22 07:46:18 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Every one saw it coming but the amount available in hisec was limited whereas those in heavily defended nullsec space could think 'hey lets mine the **** out of meg and zyd ores before they become rare and then refine it later when prices spike (with our much better refining rate to boot!)'...


Don't go there.

I was getting multi-million in units buy orders filled non-stop at 630 p/u just a day before April 1st. After I bought out the whole Empire on March 20th. P

It is possible, yes, that after the Fanfest on the 19th of March some shrewd entities started stacking said ores, but given the abysmal mineral prices at that time, I'd imagine there wasn't much mining going on prior to this.

And why would you stack Crokite? If you didn't refine it then, you surely are going to refine it before the patch, otherwise you're stuck with your Nocxiums. Big smile

Interesting question, though - would ores, which had been mined pre-patch retain their mineral compositions, or is the new changes going to overwrite these? Smile

As an example: AFAIR the ships which had been produced prior to the Tiericide still retained the old mineral bill of materials, so you couldn't refine them into moar mineralulz.


Ironically you probably filled those orders from someone in null who should have stockpiled Big smile


Then your theory doesn't work, does it? Blink

Here I am, a Hisecks pirat, plundering the booty and reselling it to the originators. Pirate
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#555 - 2015-04-22 07:52:27 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Every one saw it coming but the amount available in hisec was limited whereas those in heavily defended nullsec space could think 'hey lets mine the **** out of meg and zyd ores before they become rare and then refine it later when prices spike (with our much better refining rate to boot!)'...


Don't go there.

I was getting multi-million in units buy orders filled non-stop at 630 p/u just a day before April 1st. After I bought out the whole Empire on March 20th. P

It is possible, yes, that after the Fanfest on the 19th of March some shrewd entities started stacking said ores, but given the abysmal mineral prices at that time, I'd imagine there wasn't much mining going on prior to this.

And why would you stack Crokite? If you didn't refine it then, you surely are going to refine it before the patch, otherwise you're stuck with your Nocxiums. Big smile

Interesting question, though - would ores, which had been mined pre-patch retain their mineral compositions, or is the new changes going to overwrite these? Smile

As an example: AFAIR the ships which had been produced prior to the Tiericide still retained the old mineral bill of materials, so you couldn't refine them into moar mineralulz.


Ironically you probably filled those orders from someone in null who should have stockpiled Big smile


Then your theory doesn't work, does it? Blink

Here I am, a Hisecks pirat, plundering the booty and reselling it to the originators. Pirate


All theories allow some standard devients.

Deviations sorry...I meant deviations...
Basil Pupkin
Strategic Incompetence
#556 - 2015-04-22 09:31:15 UTC
HarlyQ wrote:
You have obviously never watched ganking then because it does fail. Kinda like your horrible posting.

Or like your reading. if ganking fails, bumping doesn't. Being in Skiff does make it harder, but not impossible, which once again proves Skiff has its worth in trolling bad gankers/bumpers, but not in mining.
That said, suicide wanking is 100% foolproof, but I guess it's still not 100% gewnproof, as you seem convinced you can find new ways for it to fail, despite it being foolproof.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#557 - 2015-04-22 09:35:27 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
HarlyQ wrote:
You have obviously never watched ganking then because it does fail. Kinda like your horrible posting.

Or like your reading. if ganking fails, bumping doesn't. Being in Skiff does make it harder, but not impossible, which once again proves Skiff has its worth in trolling bad gankers/bumpers, but not in mining.
That said, suicide wanking is 100% foolproof, but I guess it's still not 100% gewnproof, as you seem convinced you can find new ways for it to fail, despite it being foolproof.



your so bitter. just move to null sec and take advantage of what your calling a massive null sec buff
Basil Pupkin
Strategic Incompetence
#558 - 2015-04-22 10:16:44 UTC
Odin Shadow wrote:
your so bitter. just move to null sec and take advantage of what your calling a massive null sec buff

If only I were a bot fleet...

Otherwise, I'm already in null, but main beneficiary of this change is not a human player.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#559 - 2015-04-22 10:22:54 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Odin Shadow wrote:
your so bitter. just move to null sec and take advantage of what your calling a massive null sec buff

If only I were a bot fleet...

Otherwise, I'm already in null, but main beneficiary of this change is not a human player.


you have evidence about this right?
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#560 - 2015-04-22 10:30:21 UTC
Odin Shadow wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Odin Shadow wrote:
your so bitter. just move to null sec and take advantage of what your calling a massive null sec buff

If only I were a bot fleet...

Otherwise, I'm already in null, but main beneficiary of this change is not a human player.


you have evidence about this right?


This is preposterous! Evidence is an old relic concept, which died in the chivalrous middle ages back beyond the Eve wormhole.