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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#341 - 2015-04-22 09:26:33 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
CCP's retention numbers disagree with you, just so you know. There's not nearly enough stuff getting blown up in highsec these days, and that needs to change.

You can fluff for Lucas all you want, but both you and him stand squarely in the way of the game making real progress with subscription numbers and retention, and you do so in the name of the special snowflakes who aren't really playing the game in the first place anyway. I really think you actually want to see EVE die.
It's not our fault if you misunderstand CCPs statistics on player retention, but shooting players != retention. There are many other forms of interaction that aid in player retention. I've seen you state EVE statistics on player retention as a point multiple times and every time you've missed the mark by miles.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#342 - 2015-04-22 09:31:22 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

The ganking of freighters in hisec is a high level strategic aim of the Goons, so the people doing it have no skin in the game, its all funded by mother Goon.


I like how, in one breath, you claim that ganking is too easy and the game mechanics favor PvP players, while admitting in the other that killing freighters at any decent scale is only possible these days with the backing of one of the biggest groups in the entire ******* game.

And of course, you don't think there is anything inconsistent about that, either. That's the best part, how freaking blind you are.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#343 - 2015-04-22 09:33:10 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
POCOs were a good step in the proper direction. Unfortunately, they were implemented for a feature that's hard to make a lot of money from, and the penalties are easy to circumvent. Game would have been much more fun if belts and agents were locked behind acceleration gates that had to be fought over, and access managed by the controlling parties, usually sold for a cost.

But CCP will never go through with something like this, because the bears will cry bloody murder that they can't make 100% of the possible profits at all times.
I'd support that as part of an overhaul to highsec wardecs in general, or simply a method of taking systemwide cuts from the profits of miners. I think they should be able to do the same for stations taking a cut of brokers fees and with bounty taxes, LP payouts, etc too. Like POCOs give access to income from PI others are doing, it should allow players to access other income streams and fight over control. The battles between the merc groups and RvB over POCO control were amazing.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#344 - 2015-04-22 09:35:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

The ganking of freighters in hisec is a high level strategic aim of the Goons, so the people doing it have no skin in the game, its all funded by mother Goon.


I like how, in one breath, you claim that ganking is too easy and the game mechanics favor PvP players, while admitting in the other that killing freighters at any decent scale is only possible these days with the backing of one of the biggest groups in the entire ******* game.

And of course, you don't think there is anything inconsistent about that, either. That's the best part, how freaking blind you are.


Well that is one area of ganking, we have two catalysts ganking mining ships, we have Vexors ganking Industrials and we have a couple of Tornados ganking deep space transports, they are not Goons, and they make ISK.

Then at the freighter level the sheer numbers killed by the Goon group is enabled by the amount of resources that Goons put in, certain people make a lot of ISK doing it, in fact during the initial period of hyperdunking Siggy made an absolute killing, but that dried up as hyperdunking is easy to stop, I stopped quite a few myself and they largely gave up on that due to the vigelence of the AG group.

You have no idea sarge...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#345 - 2015-04-22 09:41:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
This despite the verified fact that the people who get ganked or killed in a war are by far the most likely to resub and play for a longer time. Meanwhile, the people who just mine or shoot red crosses all day quit of boredom at a far higher rate. Looks like it's the exact opposite of what you're claiming, hmm?
Lol, limited statistics being misinterpreted is "verified fact" now? There's countless issues with those stats which have been discussed at length. Sometimes I think CCP throw these tabloid statistics out there to stir things up. It's amusing to me how people like yourself then run off with them as if they explain everything.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#346 - 2015-04-22 09:42:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
and they largely gave up on that due to the vigelence of the AG group.


You mean, the fact that Tippia spelled out in black and white how easy it was to beat, to emphasize that anyone who died to it was a veritable ******? Meanwhile, if I recall, you AG guys were bawling about how it should be banned.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#347 - 2015-04-22 09:45:50 UTC
Whoever decided to derail this thread. Well done.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#348 - 2015-04-22 09:47:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
and they largely gave up on that due to the vigelence of the AG group.


You mean, the fact that Tippia spelled out in black and white how easy it was to beat, to emphasize that anyone who died to it was a veritable ******? Meanwhile, if I recall, you AG guys were bawling about how it should be banned.


I worked out how to beat it myself and was fun to do so., as for the freighters who get caught, we can all facepalm at them, but the objective for me is to keep industry and key markets in hisec, so there you go. I happen to use a twin faction web fitted loki, but then again taht may be something to do with me being able to work such things out...

Not me, in fact I was welcoming the content, I got some great kills because of it, my only issue was using it to take out of offline POS mods without a war dec, but there is of course some benefits to that, go and read my posts in that thread sarge.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#349 - 2015-04-22 09:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Whoever decided to derail this thread. Well done.


You say Marmite cannot destroy a large POS, thats lame... On the Echo Chamber thread...

Actually he did not say that, but its an odd thing to focus on that when talking about war decs, he was saying small entities struggle to take them down, well mate its pretty irrelevant as the new structures will be replacing them and the ones that matter require the entosis link.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#350 - 2015-04-22 09:55:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
When balance does come, and I suspect that it will, you and your kind will be crying loud enough to throw the moon off it's orbit. When balance does come, it will be a big net loss of safety in highsec. Because if they don't start promoting accessible and meaningful conflict, they may as well just shut the servers off.
This just simply isn't true. When balance comes, high sec will still be high sec. The overarching theme of it will be safety, since that's what highsec is.

The thing is, you guys might kick and scream about all the nerfs, but the reality is that it's still as easy as it ever was to aggress someone in highsec. How that's done might have changed and the balance between type of aggression may have but it's just as easy and obviously popular. I think you'll be very disappointed when they do get around to balancing highsec if you've got yourself psyched up for drastic changes like the complete removal of concord.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#351 - 2015-04-22 09:57:05 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Whoever decided to derail this thread. Well done.
I think that was the ISDs when they moved it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#352 - 2015-04-22 09:58:44 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Whoever decided to derail this thread. Well done.


You say Marmite cannot destroy a large POS, thats lame...

Touché. That's exactly what I posted. As you can quite clearly read in this quote.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#353 - 2015-04-22 10:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Whoever decided to derail this thread. Well done.


You say Marmite cannot destroy a large POS, thats lame...

Touché. That's exactly what I posted. As you can quite clearly read in this quote.


Corrected on my original post, before I saw your reply actually...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#354 - 2015-04-22 10:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragen Neirfallas
personally I feel high sec merc corps in their current form need to die. That said they would be replaced by suicide mercs and war Dec assistance mercs. You can read my in depth thoughts on how in a few hours time when I can type it on a computer keyboard

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#355 - 2015-04-22 10:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Sew personally I feel high sec merc corps in their current form need to die. That said they would be replaced by suicide mercs and war Dec assistance mercs. You can read my in depth thoughts on how in a few hours time when I can type it on a computer keyboard


The issue is more to do with the scatter gun approach and war deccing people who have no reason to fight, if that changes and I hope that CCP make these structures have benefits in hisec then you guys will become meaner leaner and objective focussed, if there is enough people left in Eve willing to try doing the top line structures in hisec of course and that is debatable at this point.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#356 - 2015-04-22 10:11:38 UTC
Adapt or die, boohoohoo and HTFU were the first things that came to mind. Twisted

TLDR.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#357 - 2015-04-22 10:20:05 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Adapt or die, boohoohoo and HTFU were the first things that came to mind. Twisted

TLDR.


Well off to the echo chamber then!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#358 - 2015-04-22 10:21:40 UTC
Indeed, you all have good points.
I like the vampire guy's opinion best, his opinion is more right than other people's opinion.

I would propose we nerf Oracles and Nagas because they hate industrial players.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#359 - 2015-04-22 10:30:51 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Well off to the echo chamber then!
If I knew what it meant..... Roll

People confuse personal failure to much with failing game mechanics. P

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#360 - 2015-04-22 10:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Tora Bushido wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well off to the echo chamber then!
If I knew what it meant..... Roll

People confuse personal failure to much with failing game mechanics. P


We all fail, but the fun is to try, its those that don't try who truly fail...

From the Echo Chamber, an excellent post by someone who is able to post his views and is passionate, he seems to be quite thoughtful too, which is why I often read his posts:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5687128#post5687128

One thing you get a feel for is the issue of size, it is evident as a long time reader of C&P that the Merc's are riven by ego clashes, this means that as hisec opens up to more and more outside interference such as 0.0 entities moving on POCO's they cannot compete, Marmite tried and failed when Goons moved in, but its a long term game and I have not kept track of the POCO's around Jita recently.

Tora for example wants to bring dreadnoughts to hisec and in a way I agree with him, however this gets very messy in terms of those 0.0 entities which will just blow hisec away. Another issue where balance gets in the way of more flexibility. Lets say people in hisec get together and create their own station hub, this hub is supported by multiple corps and alliances and had a market only allowed to blues (CCP listen to that part please.) A merc outfit like Marmite war dec's them and finds a metric ton of people coming in as allies, Marmite fails.

The Goons war dec them and bring in their fleets and demolish it because they can, hisec entities try to gather enough to fight but fail, but good fights are had in some areas, learning from that lesson they create multiple such stations and switch betrween them as needed, all owned by different corps. Lots of fun and games methinks, as I said the only issue is whether there are left any real entities that can put something like that together in hisec.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp