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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

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Author
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#1 - 2015-04-21 04:43:31 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Hello,

(EDIT) Now that some time has passed (15 pages worth) im going to go ahead and reveal my main and some links to back up my claims as you will read about.

My first main was Otard. I formed Junkyard Gunners in 2010. As you can see, membership was booming and mid January (at the peak of my membership) is when i took them to null sec in FA for the first time. But prior to mid Jan, it was all high sec.

After coming back i sold Otard and bought Master Hyde. I was the Mil Dir for Tribal Band in Period Basis. After my break i came back and formed... you guessed it... Junkyard Gunn3rs. After our first 2 weeks, and 45 members with full apis/above 5m sp - we were war dec'd by every major high sec group. 5 war dec's crushed us as we were permacamped regardless moving all the way to langansi.

Intro: Ive done it all: Build caps; Military Director for a Large Sov holding allaince; FC for small gang leet pvp low sec; FC for high skilled high sec mercs; mining; manufacturing.

So after my Military Director stint for over a year, i took a break from the game. Back in 2010 i was the CEO of a high sec corp. That was most fun ive ever had. We had 160 peeps in 3 months and membership was exploding.

Ive been playing eve since 2006 and back pre 2013 (i think) one had to pay a fixed fee to wardec someone which doubled every time a new entity wardec'd. This means that rarely would a corp get more than 3 war decs at once. The average war dec time was 1 week out of the month.

So i come back to do that high sec corp all over again. The problem is once my corp got to 50 guys in 2 weeks, the war decs came hot and heavy. And they werent like the old days of small corps. Now it was huge multiple war decing alliances. We didnt have a prayer. The corp was wardeced EVERY WEEK afterwards. Thus stomping us out of existance.

Who is there to hire when all the pvpers are in the war decing alliances? Where is there to go? What is there to do?

Sadly i had spent too much $$ for a corp website that never saw the light of day because once i relized the war dec mechanics, it was no longer worth it to be a successful large (50+) high sec corp.

I have no issues fighting, but a 50 man corp spread in euro/american tz simply cant do jack about the HUNDREDS of experienced pvpers camping your stations with nothing better to do.

I would love to have a conversation in the comments from both sides. Perhaps there is some middle ground?

EDIT: lots of conversation - thats good.
- As i mentioned in one of my posts - ive posted with an alt because im known to be controversial, and i dont want that getting in the way of something i find to be important.

Here is my tldr: A pvp alliance can war dec just about everyone, at once, for an unlimited amount of time because the costs are so low. B ring back the double cost wardec system.

ArrowBig thanks to ISD Ezwal for keeping the thread as clean as possible!


Estella Osoka nailed it. Its up to CCP to decide of this is an acceptable way to play from the perspective of an industrial.
Here's what you do:

1. Create a corp.
2. Set the tax rate to 0.
3. Put all your industry alts in that corp. You know, the ones that do all the refining and building; the ones that don't undock.
4. Keep your miners in a NPC corp.
5. Miners mine, trade the ore to station alts for refining and such.
6. Create a chat room to talk in.
7. Use hauler alts to move goods.
8. Profit.

Plan B

1. Create several 1-2 man corps for missioners/miners.
2. Set the tax to 0.
3. Create a chat room to talk in.
4. Wardec comes around, missioners can drop to NPC corp. Rejoin once over, or just go ahead and create a new corp. It's called corp hopping.

Oh, and don't use corp/alliance ads to recruit. It just brings unwanted attention. Object here is to maintain a low profile, but if **** happens; have a plan to deal with it.

Avoiding a wardec is easy. Avoiding ganks is a bit more difficult, but the smart player can do it.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-04-21 04:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
You realize posts such as this invite bovine scatology. But, you're right. The powers that be literally shifted the dynamics of the game in favor of those with whom they are enamored to the exclusion of all else. This forum drips with the "winners" in this now trying to solidify this favor as "how EVE is, and is meant to be."

Like I said, prepare for the BS avalanche by the ones "who know."

There just isn't anything that can be said!

Mr Deleted
God of Terrorr
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#3 - 2015-04-21 04:58:30 UTC
highsec is overrated, lowsec is where its at, and it solves the war deccing problems, all the war deccers cant go to lowsec, thats where real fights are
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4 - 2015-04-21 05:05:21 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Hello, i am posting with an alt.


I stopped reading.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#5 - 2015-04-21 05:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?

Perhaps this is a little old case of not being able to defend what you have, and asking for artificial defense in the form of restrictions implemented by the developers, instead of either scaling down your operations to become less of a target, or becoming proactive and aggressive enough so as not to appear as one to others in the first place, hm?

Edit:

Quote:
Ive done it all: Build caps; Military Director for a Large Sov holding allaince; FC for small gang leet pvp low sec; FC for high skilled high sec mercs

Yeah uh, I'm not buying it.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#6 - 2015-04-21 05:13:11 UTC
Highsec PVPers are there for the same reason their prey is in highsec: nullsec and lowsec mechanics suck.

You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner. They won't admit it. They'll hide behind "but I'm a PVPer" and then try to punch downward at everybody who has not self-declared their high exalted world-saving position as a PVPer also. As if that somehow lends to better self esteem.

Fortunately the changes to SOV will make highsec irrelevant and boring again so noobs can incubate better and stay in the game longer.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-04-21 05:13:47 UTC
Mr Deleted wrote:
highsec is overrated, lowsec is where its at, and it solves the war deccing problems, all the war deccers cant go to lowsec, thats where real fights are

Like taking a Stratios, Broadsword, Proteus and Gnosis to kill an Interon Mk V, Sigil or Badger? Or even more ships to kill a Mackinaw? Those sorts of fights?

Seems plausible. They look so much more real than what the highsec pvpers do.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#8 - 2015-04-21 05:19:14 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner. They won't admit it.


Yeah, that's exactly how being neg ten works. Roll

Your ranting has really gone off the deep end lately.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#9 - 2015-04-21 05:24:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner.

You say this a lot but you never provide a source.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Sol epoch
HELVEGEN
#10 - 2015-04-21 05:42:26 UTC
Stopped reading at " Ive done it all"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#11 - 2015-04-21 05:45:44 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner.

You say this a lot but you never provide a source.



Playing since 2006 is not relevant I guess. I've done my PVP from null to high and seen the range.

What is it with people these days they need a listicle for everything that must be in print (automatically making it the truth) and a youtube video to walk their ritalined brains through every point in said listicle before they understand it.

Rather than play your "show me proof" game I'm going to do something more enjoyable and allow you time to prove me wrong.

As for Kaarous - try undocking sometime and you'll see what goes on in game instead of writing about it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#12 - 2015-04-21 05:48:04 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Playing since 2006 is not relevant I guess.


Not if you're going to claim it as a substitute for facts or proof, no.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#13 - 2015-04-21 05:49:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner. They won't admit it.


Yeah, that's exactly how being neg ten works. Roll

Your ranting has really gone off the deep end lately.




There's a fellow by the name of LieK Darz who operates around towards the Korsiki direction of The Forge region and he's negative ten along with an alt he uses and I have not seen it stop them.
(Very by the book and respectable too )

Being neg 10 in highsec is still better than nullsec bubbles and BLOPs drop. Go ahead and throw some Church of HTFU dogma at it and see what you can do with it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-04-21 05:55:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner. They won't admit it.


Yeah, that's exactly how being neg ten works. Roll

Your ranting has really gone off the deep end lately.


What highsec mercs are -10? The only -10 players in highsec are dedicated gank alts. And I know you know this. The wardec spamming station huggers are all positive sec and rely on CONCORD protection just as much as their targets. CONCORD makes sure no one else interferes with their seal clubbing.

I would love to see someone try to undock their blingy t3 while being -10.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#15 - 2015-04-21 05:56:05 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner.

You say this a lot but you never provide a source.



Playing since 2006 is not relevant I guess. I've done my PVP from null to high and seen the range.

What is it with people these days they need a listicle for everything that must be in print (automatically making it the truth) and a youtube video to walk their ritalined brains through every point in said listicle before they understand it.

Rather than play your "show me proof" game I'm going to do something more enjoyable and allow you time to prove me wrong.

As for Kaarous - try undocking sometime and you'll see what goes on in game instead of writing about it.

If you're going to do something as asinine as demand that I disprove an unsubstantiated claim that you have made against other people, then I will just go ahead and say that I've been in the game two years longer than you have, and as such, anything I say automatically overrides anything you say, because I'm the older player.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-04-21 05:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
There's a fellow by the name of LieK Darz who operates around towards the Korsiki direction of The Forge region and he's negative ten along with an alt he uses and I have not seen it stop them.
(Very by the book and respectable too )

Surely, not being stopped by being -10 is not the same as travelling in the same safety as the mission runner or incursioner (or really, anyone that isn't outlaw)?

This is totally off topic to the OPs point (since being a wardeccer doesn't go well as a -10), so not worth spending much time on, but surely you can't say they are the same.
Dana Goodeye
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-04-21 05:59:20 UTC
hisec wars can be fun. fly smart and cheap, and humiliate them =) or if you cant, find a losec pocket, and move in. and have some pvpers there. a curse or two, and lets say a bunch of frigs or 1-2 t3 cruisers can fight off almost anything in a losec pocket. griffins are also can cause butthurt :) just wach out for cynos. btw, for a hisec war, you also can use lets say 5-10 griffins and 5-10 brawler ab spider comets. just need some practice to rep mates and shoot targets, not the oposite :D but if youre an old player, you should know how to fly cheap and effective in a war =P
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-04-21 06:02:32 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Mr Deleted wrote:
highsec is overrated, lowsec is where its at, and it solves the war deccing problems, all the war deccers cant go to lowsec, thats where real fights are

Like taking a Stratios, Broadsword, Proteus and Gnosis to kill an Interon Mk V, Sigil or Badger? Or even more ships to kill a Mackinaw? Those sorts of fights?

Seems plausible. They look so much more real than what the highsec pvpers do.


You just described 99% of highsec pvp. I've never seen a mackinaw in lowsec.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#19 - 2015-04-21 06:03:49 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner.

You say this a lot but you never provide a source.



Playing since 2006 is not relevant I guess. I've done my PVP from null to high and seen the range.

What is it with people these days they need a listicle for everything that must be in print (automatically making it the truth) and a youtube video to walk their ritalined brains through every point in said listicle before they understand it.

Rather than play your "show me proof" game I'm going to do something more enjoyable and allow you time to prove me wrong.

As for Kaarous - try undocking sometime and you'll see what goes on in game instead of writing about it.

If you're going to do something as asinine as demand that I disprove an unsubstantiated claim that you have made against other people, then I will just go ahead and say that I've been in the game two years longer than you have, and as such, anything I say automatically overrides anything you say, because I'm the older player.




Go ahead and pull rank then. I'm going to disagree with you anyway. I can't avoid this pattern that you and several well known forum names around here swoop into these threads like moths to a flame to say the same old stuff over and over again.

For that reason alone nothing you will say to me has any meaning because I suspect there are people who think they own the game and don't want other people playing it.

Even the "deny the playing of the game" mechanics are being reviewed and/or changed.

And shame on you for not remembering what the game used to be like, how much better it was when the community was not so aspergian.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-04-21 06:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
You just described 99% of highsec pvp. I've never seen a mackinaw in lowsec.

Go and look at that guy's killboard.

He is ridiculing highsec pvpers on the basis that 'real fights' happen in lowsec. But he is doing just the same.

It's the typical double standard argument.
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