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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

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Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#181 - 2015-04-21 17:58:38 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Trollbait after trollbait after trollbait while ignoring every way forward.


I'm calling bullshit right about now.

OP is trollbait and nothing more.

Touché, you got me.

D. Out.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-04-21 18:00:54 UTC
This makes me sad I offered my services... such as they are. Ah well, guess I'm a sucker.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Solecist Project
#183 - 2015-04-21 18:11:30 UTC
Danalee wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Trollbait after trollbait after trollbait while ignoring every way forward.


I'm calling bullshit right about now.

OP is trollbait and nothing more.

Touché, you got me.

D. Out.

Bear

No.
He's a hater with agenda.
It's perfect to cement once again how wrong they are.

And the next time someone comes up with it ...
... we just link here ...
... and lock down the thread on our own.

Sqdly people on our side work against us as well ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#184 - 2015-04-21 18:16:05 UTC

I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Solecist Project
#185 - 2015-04-21 18:21:16 UTC
Oh I forgot.
Raising the costs is pointless and bad.
It would just make it harder for newer pilots to wardec others.

This btw shows how flawed your perception is when it comes to the game.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
alexclone1
The MetroPlex
#186 - 2015-04-21 18:23:00 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
[quote=alexclone1][quote=Solecist Project][quote=alexclone1][quote=Destiny Corrupted]

You seem not to know that new playwrs with proper instructions can
bring down battleships. Takes them what, an hour ? to learn with practise.
You not knowing better does not change that.




interesting. plz post kill mail
alexclone1
The MetroPlex
#187 - 2015-04-21 18:25:12 UTC
Danalee wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Trollbait after trollbait after trollbait while ignoring every way forward.


I'm calling bullshit right about now.

OP is trollbait and nothing more.

Touché, you got me.

D. Out.

Bear



How can a war dec mechanic (that i am defending) that used to exist FOR OVER A DECADE be considered a troll?
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2015-04-21 18:26:52 UTC
The problem with war decs is there is no grey area where players can have choices on mitigating it. It is all or nothing. So small groups are easily overwhelmed by large and powerful forces. Sure you can cross your arms and say, "that's eve" But the reality is it does not make for good gameplay.
alexclone1
The MetroPlex
#189 - 2015-04-21 18:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
The problem with war decs is there is no grey area where players can have choices on mitigating it. It is all or nothing. So small groups are easily overwhelmed by large and powerful forces. Sure you can cross your arms and say, "that's eve" But the reality is it does not make for good gameplay.


exactly. War decs are good. Industrial corps should be war dec'd. But the current mechanic allowing just about everyone, at once, to wardec a corp that already has 5 war decs against it makes no sense. And if your corp is active, and dudes die (which happens in wardecs) then they constantly become renewed.

Esentially your only option is to log out for a week and pray they dont renew. 30 vs 300 just isnt viable. Especially when the costs of said war dec are minimal.

Edit: This is high sec. Not null sec. In null sec you wave all right to things being fair because there are no npc faction/mechanics protecting you. Its pure politics. In high sec, you have a pay a fee to the npc faction (not shoot on site) and that is the particular mechanic that is broken imo.

The costs need to be higher. If you wanted to war dec someone, it should be because they REALLY pissed you off. Not because you want to shoot at miners.
Solecist Project
#190 - 2015-04-21 18:30:20 UTC
Quote:

interesting. plz post kill mail

And this bullshit is what exposes you as a hater.
This thread should be locked, but as you wish to help us ....


You actually think this ends my argument.
You know that even if I digged one out (hey Ralph?) you would claim fake.

But tell you what.
You roll a new char and we show you.

Easily done and there will be no shadow of a doubt left.


So... what's your excuse now?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#191 - 2015-04-21 18:31:01 UTC
I'll end it with this;

I can make a corp.
In that corp I can mine, mission, have structures, have no tax and I can market PVP.
Anyone can wardec my small corp.

If that happens, which will be very rare, I can continue doing the same thing as before.

10 man corp? Same thing.
100 man corp? SAME THING.
5000000+ Alliance... guess what? Same yeah.

Your argument is so flawed it went from funny to sad and back, twice.
Wardecs should be free.


D.

Bear



Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Solecist Project
#192 - 2015-04-21 18:31:13 UTC
Oh btw hi Veers.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#193 - 2015-04-21 18:32:06 UTC
Danalee wrote:
I'll end it with this;

I can make a corp.
In that corp I can mine, mission, have structures, have no tax and I can market PVP.
Anyone can wardec my small corp.

If that happens, which will be very rare, I can continue doing the same thing as before.

10 man corp? Same thing.
100 man corp? SAME THING.
5000000+ Alliance... guess what? Same yeah.

Your argument is so flawed it went from funny to sad and back, twice.
Wardecs should be free.


D.

Bear




Let's do this.
Can I join?

No one wants me even though I even made a recruitment thread. :(

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
alexclone1
The MetroPlex
#194 - 2015-04-21 18:33:58 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Quote:

interesting. plz post kill mail

And this bullshit is what exposes you as a hater.
This thread should be locked, but as you wish to help us ....


You actually think this ends my argument.
You know that even if I digged one out (hey Ralph?) you would claim fake.

But tell you what.
You roll a new char and we show you.

Easily done and there will be no shadow of a doubt left.


So... what's your excuse now?


Please calm down, i dont mean any disrespect. Firstly you said it would take an hour to kill a battleship. Ok, im sure it can be done. My question is how often does 1 guy wardec a corp? Im sure it happens, but i DONT have issues with that. My issues are with the mulitple mega war decing groups that can war dec everyone at will.

Where is this Battlehips's friends? Im sure you been in high sec wars, and you would know that even a war dec'd frigate would be met with EVERYONE trying to get on a km.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#195 - 2015-04-21 18:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
The bigger they are, the more chance for the hunter to become the prey.

Also, no amount of battleships will ever kill my frigate and I have the added bonus of being able to split them up untill I have them right where I want them.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
alexclone1
The MetroPlex
#196 - 2015-04-21 18:39:22 UTC
Danalee wrote:
I'll end it with this;

I can make a corp.
In that corp I can mine, mission, have structures, have no tax and I can market PVP.
Anyone can wardec my small corp.

If that happens, which will be very rare, I can continue doing the same thing as before.

10 man corp? Same thing.
100 man corp? SAME THING.
5000000+ Alliance... guess what? Same yeah.

Your argument is so flawed it went from funny to sad and back, twice.
Wardecs should be free.


D.

Bear





Lets step through this. So lets say you have an active 100 man high sec corp with 40 people online at once. You get wardec'd (it isnt 'very rare' as you claim) and hundreds of pilots from experienced war decers show up to your hq system. They know where you rat (agent finder) they know where you mine (neutral cloaky alts), ect.

So what happens? They put a cloaky alt in your system, watch your corpies undock to do a mission, wait 1j over and blap em. You decide to put your own cloaky alts to watch their cloaky alts. You warp to the gate (opposite gate is clear), you jump and then wt's log in, and blap you. You try to mine, war targets log in and blap you.

The point is, no matter how careful you are; experienced pvpers have been doing this for YEARS. Im not against these mechanics. Im simply against the cost amount of what it takes to war dec a corp/alliance
alexclone1
The MetroPlex
#197 - 2015-04-21 18:42:35 UTC
Danalee wrote:
The bigger they are, the more chance for the hunter to become the prey.

Also, no amount of battleships will ever kill my frigate and I have the added bonus of being able to split them up untill I have them right where I want them.

D.

Bear


Dominix?

- lets talk about 'the bigger you are'. Your logic SHOULD play out. So lets say you get a war dec, and your corp fights well. That war decing corp calls in buddies, who call in buddies because "holy cow an industrial corp that will fight".

Due to the low costs, you now have 5 war decs and hundreds of pilots looking for blood. Tell me, how does one recruit to get bigger when your corp cant even undock from station?
Solecist Project
#198 - 2015-04-21 18:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
alexclone1 wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Quote:

interesting. plz post kill mail

And this bullshit is what exposes you as a hater.
This thread should be locked, but as you wish to help us ....


You actually think this ends my argument.
You know that even if I digged one out (hey Ralph?) you would claim fake.

But tell you what.
You roll a new char and we show you.

Easily done and there will be no shadow of a doubt left.


So... what's your excuse now?


Please calm down, i dont mean any disrespect. Firstly you said it would take an hour to kill a battleship. Ok, im sure it can be done. My question is how often does 1 guy wardec a corp? Im sure it happens, but i DONT have issues with that. My issues are with the mulitple mega war decing groups that can war dec everyone at will.

Where is this Battlehips's friends? Im sure you been in high sec wars, and you would know that even a war dec'd frigate would be met with EVERYONE trying to get on a km.

No, I did say it takes an hour for a noob to learn.
I wardecced quite a few corps.
I even joined alliances to take on eveuni on my own.
When I was -10 in highsec.
A stalemate at 10vs me in a bouncing tornado ...
... ended with them bringing 20 more.

It was hilarious! I got booted for ruining the alliances killboard,
because I refused to stop experimenting and learning.

Solstice Project, Space P0lice alliance.


Look ... I can assure you that big corps can as well be beaten.
Tactics and attitude are everything. Take down ONE blingy ship of these idiots
and they will tuck their tail up thejr rear ends and run crying for their goddamn mother!


Besides there usually being reasons for these decs. (seriously you might have someone
in corp who keeps running a big mouth, maybe even deliberately. You need to ask deccers! nicely!)


I can also assure you that your personal biggest enemies of a happy game are ...

... your own ignorance about what you do not know.
... all the people who share your viewpoint and don't know better.

Drop these morons and interact with people
who actually know what they are doing!

You will be surprised, trust me.


The issue you are bringing up is not fixable,
because the victims are ignorant about their possibilities ...
... and or might simply be outmeta'd by a member who runs a big mouth towards others.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Black Pedro
Mine.
#199 - 2015-04-21 18:45:24 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
The problem with war decs is there is no grey area where players can have choices on mitigating it. It is all or nothing. So small groups are easily overwhelmed by large and powerful forces. Sure you can cross your arms and say, "that's eve" But the reality is it does not make for good gameplay.


exactly. War decs are good. Industrial corps should be war dec'd. But the current mechanic allowing just about everyone, at once, to wardec a corp that already has 5 war decs against it makes no sense. And if your corp is active, and dudes die (which happens in wardecs) then they constantly become renewed.

Esentially your only option is to log out for a week and pray they dont renew. 30 vs 300 just isnt viable. Especially when the costs of said war dec are minimal.

Edit: This is high sec. Not null sec. In null sec you wave all right to things being fair because there are no npc faction/mechanics protecting you. Its pure politics. In high sec, you have a pay a fee to the npc faction (not shoot on site) and that is the particular mechanic that is broken imo.

The costs need to be higher. If you wanted to war dec someone, it should be because they REALLY pissed you off. Not because you want to shoot at miners.

Do you really expect us to believe that if wardecs were say limited to 3 per corp, that you would be happy? No, if your industrial corp was still wardecced you would be here on the forums claiming that they are still unbalanced because your corp was wardecced by someone bigger than you.

All a restriction on numbers would do is break wardeccers up into smaller corps, and hurt struggling highsec mercenaries even more than the current wardec mechanics already do. Raising costs would make an already too costly mechanic out of reach for small corps to dip their toes in PvP with or settle scores with other small corps.

You should be able to wardec someone whenever you want. You should definitely be able to wardec someone because it is your profession and people are paying you to do so. This is a sandbox after all.

New highsec corps, even purely industrial ones, are founded and flourish in the face of wardecs all the time. Just because you were not successful does not mean it is not possible. Learn from your experience, and try again.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#200 - 2015-04-21 18:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
alexclone1 wrote:

Lets step through this. So lets say you have an active 100 man high sec corp with 40 people online at once. You get wardec'd (it isnt 'very rare' as you claim) and hundreds of pilots from experienced war decers show up to your hq system. They know where you rat (agent finder) they know where you mine (neutral cloaky alts), ect.

It is rare, I know it because... check my alliance.
Hundreds of pilots show up? For your corp? For the few guys ratting/mining? Don't flatter yourself.
What will happen is this: They scout you out using agents, killboards and neutral eyes. they'll see you are active and send a fleet your way. You'll see them coming from miles away and make a choice; Reship to lolstuff (ECM, frigates, bombers, whatever) and have a blast OR you reship to a proper combat fleet and kick their teeth in or you wait untill thye are there and clonejump. Rinse. repeat.
And that's in even more rare circumstances when people noticed you so much they want to go for you.
Mostly they camp stuff or roam randomly.

alexclone1 wrote:

So what happens? They put a cloaky alt in your system, watch your corpies undock to do a mission, wait 1j over and blap em. You decide to put your own cloaky alts to watch their cloaky alts. You warp to the gate (opposite gate is clear), you jump and then wt's log in, and blap you. You try to mine, war targets log in and blap you.

The guys you talk about (the ones with hundred+ wardecs) don't put 100+ alts in hundred+ systems just to find a miner undocked and go after said miner with the full force of their alliance. It's in your fantasy stuff like this happens. In reality it doesn't.
Nobody can jump you in hisec. You ALWAYS have ample time to adapt and choose what to do.

alexclone1 wrote:

The point is, no matter how careful you are; experienced pvpers have been doing this for YEARS. Im not against these mechanics. Im simply against the cost amount of what it takes to war dec a corp/alliance

As said above, each and every trick in the book can be easily avoided without gaming the system by dropping corp or not playing. Wardecs should be free.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment