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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#141 - 2015-04-21 12:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lofty, don't know that one, but awoxing you can still do, lowsec and nullsec, can flipping has been replaced by suspect baiting and some people do it very well, like the guy in Osmon using a Fenrir. In affect all the changes have done is forced people like you to up your game and take more risk, you do not like it do you?

invulnerable RR, was one of the reasons why so many people decided not to fight war dec's, its so much better now, we have people out of corp in fleet waiting to jump them, you don't like that do you. Ganking has only got more expensive in terms of the fact that some ships were given a slightly better tank, CCP finely worked out on balance.

The dropping from corp, or recreation of corps was to get away from the large number of one man war dec corps that did nothing for the whole war dec, and yet you blame the carebears for your own folly. At least the people I knew in the Orphanage did not have your attitude...

- You can do anything in low-sec and null-sec. But we're not discussing low-sec and null-sec here.

- Suspect baiting is great and all, but still completely nullified by the safety setting.

- I like risk, but I also like fairness. Pirate players should be treated as fairly as any others, within the confines of the game's environment. Telling pirate players that they should have all the risk just because they support the concept of it is unfair and inane.

- I never brought up invulnerable RR as a point of contention. This was actually a good change.

- Ganking got more expensive because most industrial ships got EHP increases in the hundreds of percentage points ranges, and because insurance was removed for losses to CONCORD.

- If the one-man corp aggressors do nothing for the duration of a war, then why do the "victims" even have to disband? I don't follow here.

- I was in The Orphanage.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal..


AWOX well you can still do it in nullsec, lowsec and hisec if left to legal and there are valid reasons to do so.

Suspect baiting is better than can flipping, the only issue is that you end up people going for it who can fight, not some sap who can't.

You said remote assistance, which I assumed to mean RR, glad you agree that it is better.

Piracy is taking a risk, some of the people in my corp did piracy at the start of Eve.

The one man corps were there to spoil the game, trapping them in a week or longer of war decs and did nothing, now people can stick two fingers up at them easily and I think that is a good thing.

Seriously, many players are just into no risk PvP, which is certainly true of people that can flip, or use the mechanics to get a fight, take those people who get mission runners to aggress, there is no risk, if they start to lose they can get out as the mission ship has no point, and in any case most mission ships are set for specific resists and are mainly BS in which getting under the guns is a win win. So take exception with my pointing out that people don't like more risk by finding it more difficult to trick people who can't fight and end up with those that want to, truth does hurt.

The insurance removal and increased tanks were needed for balance reasons, I believe that there should be additional docking repercussions with criminal acts, but am happy to leave it as is.

I was not in the Orphanage, but one of the founders of that alliance was in my corp at one point,l he left Eve because it was made too easy to kill things as he put it, Eve was made for the playstation generation, he used to enjoy the long hunt, most Eve players don't they want it easy...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Valedictio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2015-04-21 12:51:07 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Valedictio wrote:
Oh and for a certain individual, the game is not all about loss, to me it is all about me enjoying myself.

You just said that you like your "indy playstyle." Would you be able to enjoy yourself if there was no demand for the items you produce?


Naturally I would.

What that has to do with war decs ? not so sure

maybe piecemeal quoting would work better if you had added in the fact that Indy is not the only thing I do, I have even tried Freighter ganking (My Bad) mild buzz after zipping around between safes because the navy were trying to shoot me, arrived to late to shoot the freighter, then shot by faction.

I have also successfully managed to warp into a red fleet solo ( after the fleet warped off ) and yelling banzai to myself shoot at the nearest target for the few seconds before my ship assploded. My POD however survived ( That made me smile ).

Some things will make me happy, some things are meh. I still have my first golem way before bastion mods, doesn't mean I use it.

Eve gives me memorable moments and makes me smile, that is what I want from a game the highs and the lows.

and now for some more of the same from the Constructive Feedback Consortium.

Human Torch time and ..........'FLAME ON'

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#143 - 2015-04-21 13:00:25 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Here you go buddy:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19881

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=117249#post117249

The rabbit hole goes deeper if you ask Google. Plenty of dev posts on the old EVE forums.

Now you can tell me how "this isn't proof of anything," et cetera. I'm familiar with your runaround.
Well in the first one, he's talking about dec shields which were declared an exploit at one time. No mention is made of corp recycling.

The second link is actually more telling. For corp recycling it states "Not an exploit" while under corp hopping it states "No longer an exploit", which tells me that corp recycling wasn't considered an exploit before and still isn't.

You can try to accuse me of whatever you want, but the facts remain that at no point have I see any mention of closing and reopening a corp being an exploit other than from players claiming it is.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
- If they lose too much by defending, then it's obvious that their operations are too bloated. Any amount of wealth has to have a corresponding, proportional amount of protection. If folding up is the most economical option, then that's just fine. But I don't think it's fine for a corporation to strip-mine all the belts and hog all the moons and then claim that it's too easy for it to be attacked.
Not really, in fact quite the opposite. The smaller the corp is, the more likely it is going to cost more to defend than simply recreate the corp. PvE activities gain very little benefit from being in a corp, which is why there's no large scale PvE corps in highsec, with or without protection.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
- The main wardec corps aren't going to care about a dozen Blackbirds because they never leave the main hubs. Other wadec corps will care, because a dozen Blackbirds is a massive nuisance. It's a fact that most hunter-type wardec corporations are smaller than the targets they go after. Jamming every single enemy in such a scenario is entirely plausible.
That really depends on the wardeccer. Marmite might hang around in Jita, but other wardeccers don't do just that. And a half awake serious PvP corp would have ships and fits to count mass ECM. ECM is not an "I win" button.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#144 - 2015-04-21 13:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Thread reopened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#145 - 2015-04-21 13:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well in the first one, he's talking about dec shields which were declared an exploit at one time. No mention is made of corp recycling.

The second link is actually more telling. For corp recycling it states "Not an exploit" while under corp hopping it states "No longer an exploit", which tells me that corp recycling wasn't considered an exploit before and still isn't.

You can try to accuse me of whatever you want, but the facts remain that at no point have I see any mention of closing and reopening a corp being an exploit other than from players claiming it is.

The consistency of someone's language is open to interpretation. As someone who busted a rage nut during the period of time when those debates were taking place, I'm pretty sure that our claims have merit. You have to understand though that the pages with rules in them have long been deleted or edited, so all we have to go by is word of mouth and forum records. The latter are still there, or at least some of them are, but I don't want to spend my time on a deep search to try to find specific posts by the management.

We actually filed petitions about all the corp scrubbing that was going on, and had to stop right when those changes were announced/Dec Shield came around.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Not really, in fact quite the opposite. The smaller the corp is, the more likely it is going to cost more to defend than simply recreate the corp. PvE activities gain very little benefit from being in a corp, which is why there's no large scale PvE corps in highsec, with or without protection.

The problem lies in a lack of economical sense of the average EVE player, because after all, we're still all derpy teenagers playing our "video entertainment toys." The lack of protection in pve corporations, both large in small, is rooted in the greed and lack of foresight of the players who populate them. Would it cost a lot to keep players like myself on staff for security? Yeah, but there would be actual results. But no, the average bear wants all the money for himself, not just some. And seeing as how there aren't any penalties for re-rolling corporations, of course it makes sense to do this instead of paying for actual, tangible protection. I don't blame them for doing this, but it shouldn't be the case. Bringing up the cost of corporation creation to match that of starting a war would be a good first step toward fixing the problem, and raising NPC corp taxes would be a good second one.

Paying a quarter of your income to fund a proper combat wing would make a lot more sense if the alternative would be to give up half (along with a great deal of efficiency and convenience) in order to stay in an NPC corporation. Unfortunately, there's no other way to solve this issue aside from hard nerfs that put a price on safety. Pirates have been eating such hard nerfs for many, many years now, so perhaps it's time our industrious counterparts took one for the team as well.

Lucas Kell wrote:
That really depends on the wardeccer. Marmite might hang around in Jita, but other wardeccers don't do just that. And a half awake serious PvP corp would have ships and fits to count mass ECM. ECM is not an "I win" button.

It's just one example. Am I going to have to post one for every single tactical doctrine I can think of? There are multiple forms of e-war that are very quick and easy to spec into, and all of them scale really well with numbers, which means that the defenders usually have an inherent advantage.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Jenshae Chiroptera
#146 - 2015-04-21 13:53:10 UTC
War Decs aren't broken.
The value of corporations and tools to get help are missing.
(I have written about this and one way to change it)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Memphis Baas
#147 - 2015-04-21 14:02:49 UTC
I also see an issue with the fact that the wardec itself isn't a contract (has no UI-enforced secure transaction capability). You pay the extortion money and the war can continue.

I'd prefer to see the wardec system get changed to be contract-like, with a clear duration and clear win conditions (you pay x amount, or you provide x items or ships) as decided by the entity that declares the war, of course. Like an item exchange contract for the win (or for surrendering). With the war being instantly invalidated if the contract terms are paid, and not possible to declare the same war again for a while afterwards.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#148 - 2015-04-21 14:07:29 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The consistency of someone's language is open to interpretation. As someone who busted a rage nut during the period of time when those debates were taking place, I'm pretty sure that our claims have merit. You have to understand though that the pages with rules in them have long been deleted or edited, so all we have to go by is word of mouth and forum records. The latter are still there, or at least some of them are, but I don't want to spend my time on a deep search to try to find specific posts by the management.
Well I've been playing since 2005 and I don't ever remember a time when corp recycling was an exploit. This isn't the first time I've asked someone to provide proof of this either and as of yet nobody has been able to find anything. I myself have searched though hundreds for threads and old dev blogs and not been able to find it there either. If this were ever considered an exploit I just can't see why it would be this difficult to find a post from a dev stating it.

Personally I believe it's one of those things that one person has stated, has caught on and has just become uncontested fact.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The problem lies in a lack of economical sense of the average EVE player, because after all, we're still all derpy teenagers playing our "video entertainment toys." The lack of protection in pve corporations, both large in small, is rooted in the greed and lack of foresight of the players who populate them. Would it cost a lot to keep players like myself on staff for security? Yeah, but there would be actual results. But no, the average bear wants all the money for himself, not just some. And seeing as how there aren't any penalties for re-rolling corporations, of course it makes sense to do this instead of paying for actual, tangible protection. I don't blame them for doing this, but it shouldn't be the case. Bringing up the cost of corporation creation to match that of starting a war would be a good first step toward fixing the problem, and raising NPC corp taxes would be a good second one.

Paying a quarter of your income to fund a proper combat wing would make a lot more sense if the alternative would be to give up half (along with a great deal of efficiency and convenience) in order to stay in an NPC corporation. Unfortunately, there's no other way to solve this issue aside from hard nerfs that put a price on safety. Pirates have been eating such hard nerfs for many, many years now, so perhaps it's time our industrious counterparts took one for the team as well.
But it wouldn't just be a quarter. They'd pay a quarter, but when under wardec they'd be unable to do most activities in space anyway. Having a PvP wing around you does nothing against a seasoned team of dedicated PvPers who have no goal other than PvP. Besides, would you really want to play a game where you sit and watch a PvE player do PvE all day just in case a wardeccer shows up, being paid 1/4 of a highsec PvE income?

Forcing players into paying huge taxes to not be mass wardecced by the wardec groups that exist would be completely unreasonable. All that would do is get a huge chunk of PvE focused players to quit. As hard as it is for you to understand, EVE is not all about shooting people. And as for the old "us pirates get so many nerf waah waah" this has been thrown out there so many times recently. Pirates have also had multiple buffs, even if you refuse to acknowledge them.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
It's just one example. Am I going to have to post one for every single tactical doctrine I can think of? There are multiple forms of e-war that are very quick and easy to spec into, and all of them scale really well with numbers, which means that the defenders usually have an inherent advantage.
It's irrelevant, because a group of players specifically gathered together to engage in PvP are always going to be tougher than a PvP group originating from a PvE corp.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#149 - 2015-04-21 14:16:53 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
I also see an issue with the fact that the wardec itself isn't a contract (has no UI-enforced secure transaction capability). You pay the extortion money and the war can continue.

I'd prefer to see the wardec system get changed to be contract-like, with a clear duration and clear win conditions (you pay x amount, or you provide x items or ships) as decided by the entity that declares the war, of course. Like an item exchange contract for the win (or for surrendering). With the war being instantly invalidated if the contract terms are paid, and not possible to declare the same war again for a while afterwards.
That would be too much mechanics hand holding that will create a perception of security.
Many alliances and corps work together so Marmite would extort them, then Forsaken, then Code, etc and back around until they were dry.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2015-04-21 14:29:15 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The consistency of someone's language is open to interpretation. As someone who busted a rage nut during the period of time when those debates were taking place, I'm pretty sure that our claims have merit. You have to understand though that the pages with rules in them have long been deleted or edited, so all we have to go by is word of mouth and forum records. The latter are still there, or at least some of them are, but I don't want to spend my time on a deep search to try to find specific posts by the management.
Well I've been playing since 2005 and I don't ever remember a time when corp recycling was an exploit. This isn't the first time I've asked someone to provide proof of this either and as of yet nobody has been able to find anything. I myself have searched though hundreds for threads and old dev blogs and not been able to find it there either. If this were ever considered an exploit I just can't see why it would be this difficult to find a post from a dev stating it.

Personally I believe it's one of those things that one person has stated, has caught on and has just become uncontested fact.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The problem lies in a lack of economical sense of the average EVE player, because after all, we're still all derpy teenagers playing our "video entertainment toys." The lack of protection in pve corporations, both large in small, is rooted in the greed and lack of foresight of the players who populate them. Would it cost a lot to keep players like myself on staff for security? Yeah, but there would be actual results. But no, the average bear wants all the money for himself, not just some. And seeing as how there aren't any penalties for re-rolling corporations, of course it makes sense to do this instead of paying for actual, tangible protection. I don't blame them for doing this, but it shouldn't be the case. Bringing up the cost of corporation creation to match that of starting a war would be a good first step toward fixing the problem, and raising NPC corp taxes would be a good second one.

Paying a quarter of your income to fund a proper combat wing would make a lot more sense if the alternative would be to give up half (along with a great deal of efficiency and convenience) in order to stay in an NPC corporation. Unfortunately, there's no other way to solve this issue aside from hard nerfs that put a price on safety. Pirates have been eating such hard nerfs for many, many years now, so perhaps it's time our industrious counterparts took one for the team as well.
But it wouldn't just be a quarter. They'd pay a quarter, but when under wardec they'd be unable to do most activities in space anyway. Having a PvP wing around you does nothing against a seasoned team of dedicated PvPers who have no goal other than PvP. Besides, would you really want to play a game where you sit and watch a PvE player do PvE all day just in case a wardeccer shows up, being paid 1/4 of a highsec PvE income?

Forcing players into paying huge taxes to not be mass wardecced by the wardec groups that exist would be completely unreasonable. All that would do is get a huge chunk of PvE focused players to quit. As hard as it is for you to understand, EVE is not all about shooting people. And as for the old "us pirates get so many nerf waah waah" this has been thrown out there so many times recently. Pirates have also had multiple buffs, even if you refuse to acknowledge them.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
It's just one example. Am I going to have to post one for every single tactical doctrine I can think of? There are multiple forms of e-war that are very quick and easy to spec into, and all of them scale really well with numbers, which means that the defenders usually have an inherent advantage.
It's irrelevant, because a group of players specifically gathered together to engage in PvP are always going to be tougher than a PvP group originating from a PvE corp.



Dude you even quoted the dev in destinies linked thread, the second one.


NO LONGER are the key words you dont seem to understand. That means that at a time previous to 2011, corp hopping to evade wars WERE AN EXPLOIT cuz at that point in time they became NO LONGER.

Dude you type too much here to act like you dont understand what the dev ment by NO LONGER CONSIDERED
Solecist Project
#151 - 2015-04-21 14:36:25 UTC
Quotes are messed up...

Lucas... saying a group that originated from PvE and then went to PvP
can not be tougher than a group that started with PvP directly ...

... is like saying these people are incapable to learn and gain practise like the others.

That's not right.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#152 - 2015-04-21 14:56:36 UTC
Destiny Corrupted. wrote:
The fact that you feel the need to bring your killboard into this shows just how insecure you feel about your place in this entire debate.


I missed this little comment about my killboard, a couple of posters here made comments as if I was a carebear, my killboard indicates otherwise which is why I referred to it, if you think that is due to insecurity think again.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#153 - 2015-04-21 14:56:51 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Dude you even quoted the dev in destinies linked thread, the second one.


NO LONGER are the key words you dont seem to understand. That means that at a time previous to 2011, corp hopping to evade wars WERE AN EXPLOIT cuz at that point in time they became NO LONGER.

Dude you type too much here to act like you dont understand what the dev ment by NO LONGER CONSIDERED
Corp hopping isn't what's being questioned though. What we're talking about is corp recycling - the act of deleting and recreating a corp to evade a wardec. That did not say "no longer", it simply said "not an exploit". Please though, find me the dev post stating that corp recycling is an exploit. I'd like to know the answer one way or the other for certain. As it stand there's absolutely no proof it ever was an exploit.

Solecist Project wrote:
Lucas... saying a group that originated from PvE and then went to PvP
can not be tougher than a group that started with PvP directly ...

... is like saying these people are incapable to learn and gain practise like the others.

That's not right.
You misunderstand. A corp that is PvE focussed and has some PvP players is going to be less effective at PvP than a dedicated PvP group who do nothing but PvP.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Solecist Project
#154 - 2015-04-21 14:58:12 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Dude you even quoted the dev in destinies linked thread, the second one.


NO LONGER are the key words you dont seem to understand. That means that at a time previous to 2011, corp hopping to evade wars WERE AN EXPLOIT cuz at that point in time they became NO LONGER.

Dude you type too much here to act like you dont understand what the dev ment by NO LONGER CONSIDERED
Corp hopping isn't what's being questioned though. What we're talking about is corp recycling - the act of deleting and recreating a corp to evade a wardec. That did not say "no longer", it simply said "not an exploit". Please though, find me the dev post stating that corp recycling is an exploit. I'd like to know the answer one way or the other for certain. As it stand there's absolutely no proof it ever was an exploit.

Solecist Project wrote:
Lucas... saying a group that originated from PvE and then went to PvP
can not be tougher than a group that started with PvP directly ...

... is like saying these people are incapable to learn and gain practise like the others.

That's not right.
You misunderstand. A corp that is PvE focussed and has some PvP players is going to be less effective at PvP than a dedicated PvP group who do nothing but PvP.

Ah. Yes. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#155 - 2015-04-21 15:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Paying a quarter of your income to fund a proper combat wing would make a lot more sense if the alternative would be to give up half (along with a great deal of efficiency and convenience) in order to stay in an NPC corporation. Unfortunately, there's no other way to solve this issue aside from hard nerfs that put a price on safety. Pirates have been eating such hard nerfs for many, many years now, so perhaps it's time our industrious counterparts took one for the team as well.

But it wouldn't just be a quarter. They'd pay a quarter, but when under wardec they'd be unable to do most activities in space anyway. Having a PvP wing around you does nothing against a seasoned team of dedicated PvPers who have no goal other than PvP. Besides, would you really want to play a game where you sit and watch a PvE player do PvE all day just in case a wardeccer shows up, being paid 1/4 of a highsec PvE income?
+
You misunderstand. A corp that is PvE focussed and has some PvP players is going to be less effective at PvP than a dedicated PvP group who do nothing but PvP.

The solution is having those seasoned, dedicated pvpers as part of your team. The industrialists gain the benefit of protection (and I'm talking real protection, as in "wait a second, did these guys just put a dozen Vindicators on the field? I thought we were going to kill Retrievers?"), and the pvpers get the benefit of cheaper stuff, and maybe having someone else cover their war fees for a change.

And that last part I typed there? It's important. The trick to retaining these pvpers isn't just helping them out financially, but actually allowing them to operate how they want, under their own rules. Then they can go out and do the same pvp they would have done on their own, while the industrialists do their own thing. No one has to bleed their eyes out watching miners mine for twelve. Meanwhile, the non-rubbish killboard stats show everyone that you're a hard target, and no one ever dares to **** with you.

I've been a long-term member of two such corporations throughout my years in the game. Here's a killboard link for one of them: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corporation&name=Ore+Mongers

Ranked 217 even after half a decade of being effectively disbanded. We had more characters with industrial than combat skills, and we had no problem making the rules everywhere we went.

You keep mentioning how old of a player you are, but the fact that you haven't arrived at this very simple formula for success is downright astonishing.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#156 - 2015-04-21 15:29:54 UTC
I love it how people generalise about conflict in this game, like Destiny Corrupted above.

When it was only me in my corp and alliance I was spotted by the CEO of Deadly Fingertips webbing an Orca near Osmon, in comes a war dec. So I was not impressed, so in the time I had I watched them and made a snap decision head to Jita, I then setup some ships and stuff then watched them some more. After I had gained my intel I tested them on the Jita 4-4 undock with a low skilled alt, but with a ship designed to survive station games. The next two days I just played with the people they had on the Jita undock, I cost them a lot of kills and I almost killed some small stuff, I could have killed a Tengu and a Loki, but my objective was simple to be a pain so they would not war dec me again, I did not want to get one upset by blowing up his pixels. At the end of the war dec it was not renewed, and one of them told me good resistance.

I got involved with the AG movement, this ended up with people that I had talked back into the game rejoining my corp, we took out the POS of a Miniluv player who is very good at freighter ganking by jumping on one of his war dec's on a indy corp. That player was not impressed and has paid for war decs on my alliance. Because of that the same tactics of being a royal pain will not work, so even if I got everyone in blackbirds or whatever it will not end the war dec.

I wanted to have some fun in Jita, but one of my FC's did not like the idea of doing that due to past lag issues there, I deferred to him, we decided to look at one of the pipes and hunt there, I was on one roam that drew a blank and he did three roams while I was away for a week at a family funeral, they also drew a blank. GTA 5 has come out and those players are playing that game and having fun, there is nothing interesting in chasing after Marmite for them, so they will just play GTA 5. So at this point there is no way I can get the interest up to go after Marmite or Foresaken. So its back to the time honoured Eve method of boring your opponent to death, happily all of them have massive wallets and no need to grind anything like myself.

I have a POS that I left up, the same one I took from the Miniluv player, I am very surprised that it is still very much alive, it has in fact been the best fighter from my alliance in terms of kills, its got a Falcon and a Confessor, that is the only skin I have in the game and I expected to lose it and find it funny that its still trhere. All of our alliances losses came from a new corp that joined my alliance, basically new people who did silly things.

One of my players just dropped crop, he wants to do something in Eve, he will be back later. If I want to move stuff around I do so, I know how Marmite operate and where they are, Foresaken Asylum are new to me and am doing my research. I expect to be dog-piled, I already have a lot of intel on Break-A-Wish and the Pursuit of Happiness, so if Vimsy wants to honour me with a war dec I know what to expect.

Break-A-Wish are my number one advice for people looking to hire mercs, I have been asked a number of times who to hire and this alliance do more than most.

If I got war decc'd by some corp that was looking for a fight and was not one of the Hisec merc corps I would have enjoyed it, I was hoping to get that sort of fight, but I end up with Marmite, which is for me a bit of a yawn. All I can say to Sigfried is that you were too much of a cheapskate to hire Break-A-Wish, though I would rather not have to deal with them in all honesty..., not that they can do much to me, perhaps take a POS which I only hold to annoy siggy.

So there you go no skin in the game no reason to fight, and due to GTA 5 no interest in a fight...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#157 - 2015-04-21 15:40:59 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The solution is having those seasoned, dedicated pvpers as part of your team. The industrialists gain the benefit of protection (and I'm talking real protection, as in "wait a second, did these guys just put a dozen Vindicators on the field? I thought we were going to kill Retrievers?"), and the pvpers get the benefit of cheaper stuff, and maybe having someone else cover their war fees for a change.

And that last part I typed there? It's important. The trick to retaining these pvpers isn't just helping them out financially, but actually allowing them to operate how they want, under their own rules. Then they can go out and do the same pvp they would have done on their own, while the industrialists do their own thing. No one has to bleed their eyes out watching miners mine for twelve. Meanwhile, the non-rubbish killboard stats show everyone that you're a hard target, and no one ever dares to **** with you.
But all the time they are away doing their PvP, war targets get to roam free stomping all over your PvE players. That's no different to how right now you can hire mercs who will sometimes be there, which is pretty much useless in most cases. AS for them being scared off, these big wardec alliance attack each other, pure PvP focused corps. they also attack groups like RvB, a PvP focused group with thousands of players. I don't think most of them would be scared off because your players also kill stuff. If anything it's a jackpot. they get both carebears and gudfites in the same dec fee!

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I've been a long-term member of two such corporations throughout my years in the game. Here's a killboard link for one of them: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corporation&name=Ore+Mongers

Ranked 217 even after half a decade of being effectively disbanded. We had more characters with industrial than combat skills, and we had no problem making the rules everywhere we went.

You keep mentioning how old of a player you are, but the fact that you haven't arrived at this very simple formula for success is downright astonishing.
That doesn't really look like a highsec corp tbh, the vast majority of your activity seems to be in null. You were even in null alliances. And I came to that same conclusion, I moved to null because trying to be in a decently sized corp which does more than fight endless wardecs in highsec is pointless. Any highsec activity I do is from one man corps or NPC corps.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2015-04-21 16:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Dracvlad wrote:
Stay a while and listen while I tell you the story of my people


Dracvlad, sorry to break it to you but the reason you got wardecced was your crying on the forums.
No goon plot to "get you" or anything involved.
The onus for your corpies leaving is therefor on you. They didn't want to go after marmites or whoever and you pestered them untill they left for GTA. Learn from that.

For all the impact you think you have otherwise, you are (as I, I admit) quite irrelevant.
You being docked somewhere doesn't impact anyone. Forums are a fun pastime for me so... meh.
Someone getting killed somewhere in a game about killing stuff is again... Well, you know what I mean.

Please stop derailing this thread with post about how you are bad at EVE and want EVE to drop to your level.
Either shape up or ship out. No tears will be shed, anyway the wind blows.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#159 - 2015-04-21 16:30:44 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
We're down to exactly two methods of killing someone in high-sec that the victim can't nullify by flipping a switch. That's saying a lot. Just two more nerfs, I guess.


You can tell that's how this is going when the bears are openly saying things like "if they just got rid of wardecs, they'd still have ganking..."

Why they even play this game is beyond me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2015-04-21 16:31:43 UTC
OP: Spends a paragraph discussing how good an EVE Commander he is; posts on an alt. Roll

Sorry but I've played games with highsec war players. I've gotten a few kills in them and a lot of losses. Thing is, I'm -really- bad at this game, and I was working solo. I firmly believe a mix of competency + friends I could have delt my share of blows in highsec wars. When I'm in a real PVP alliance, even 20 man or so, we usually got a few kills and no losses from wars.