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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#221 - 2015-04-21 19:33:39 UTC
So the OP is straight up asking for the dec shield exploit to come back, because he can't be asked to either play the game correctly or shut his mouth, and he believes that neither of those should have any consequences at all.

If anyone sniffs this ******'s main out, drop me an evemail, I want in on this.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#222 - 2015-04-21 19:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

The 'answer' to the war issue is not further nerfs, but to just tell the pansies to **** off. That, and to close the existing dec-dodging loophole and have a war follow individuals who drop corp under wardec. AFTER that loophole is closed, then we can talk about tweaks to fees.


F


Im not asking for further nerfs. Im asking that war dec costs would double after the first war dec and so on like the past 10 years.


Fixed quoting. ISD Ezwal.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#223 - 2015-04-21 19:35:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So the OP is straight up asking for the dec shield exploit to come back, because he can't be asked to either play the game correctly or shut his mouth, and he believes that neither of those should have any consequences at all.

If anyone sniffs this ******'s main out, drop me an evemail, I want in on this.


My main is Master Hyde. have at it. I giggled when someone told me to talk to lovesquad
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#224 - 2015-04-21 19:35:39 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:

Im not asking for further nerfs. Im asking that war dec costs would double after the first war dec and so on like the past 10 years.


That is a nerf. In fact, that is precisely what the present incarnation of wardecs was revised to avoid.

They were changed to get rid of specifically that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#225 - 2015-04-21 19:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

Im not asking for further nerfs. Im asking that war dec costs would double after the first war dec and so on like the past 10 years.


That is a nerf. In fact, that is precisely what the present incarnation of wardecs was revised to avoid.

They were changed to get rid of specifically that.


exactly. so what you REALLY meant to say when you listed all those nerfs is that in reality mercs got a buff in wardecing mechanics and those nerfs made it a little better.

But the original war dec system is the **** you bitched about and no way do you want it back. And yet you tell me to adapt.

Hypocrite 101
Solecist Project
#226 - 2015-04-21 19:38:06 UTC

It went so well ... and now this.

So completely unnecessary.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#227 - 2015-04-21 19:40:24 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:

exactly. so what you REALLY meant to say when you listed all those nerfs is that in reality mercs got a buff in wardecing mechanics and those nerfs made it a little better.


Nope, it removed an exploit. And true to form, the carebears moved right on to a different exploit.

Your end goal is that wars either stop existing, or are so weak that they might as well not exist.

The answer is too damn bad. They're too weak already, if anything they need buffed, and their cost dropped to match the price it costs to flip a corp.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#228 - 2015-04-21 19:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
alexclone1 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

The 'answer' to the war issue is not further nerfs, but to just tell the pansies to **** off. That, and to close the existing dec-dodging loophole and have a war follow individuals who drop corp under wardec. AFTER that loophole is closed, then we can talk about tweaks to fees.


F


Im not asking for further nerfs. Im asking that war dec costs would double after the first war dec and so on like the past 10 years.

Ok. We do this and you still get wardecced because someone doesn't like you, or perhaps one of your corp members likes to mouth off.

Now what?
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#229 - 2015-04-21 19:44:38 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
[quote=Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
The 'answer' to the war issue is not further nerfs, but to just tell the pansies to **** off. That, and to close the existing dec-dodging loophole and have a war follow individuals who drop corp under wardec. AFTER that loophole is closed, then we can talk about tweaks to fees.


F


Im not asking for further nerfs. Im asking that war dec costs would double after the first war dec and so on like the past 10 years.

Ok. We do this and you still get wardecced because someone doesn't like you, or perhaps one of your corp members likes to mouth off.

Now what?[/quote]

*facedesk* i have repeatedly posted that war decs ARE COOL. I AM FOR WARDECS. The point is if a corp war decs you, and then a second - RARELY does a 3rd. Because it is too expensive.

That is all im wanting. And if i get wardeced by 5 corps- ill know that corp 3-5 paid out the nose and thus im going to blue ball. Dropping the chance they will renew.

Currently it is war dec hot and heavy will little financial consequence
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#230 - 2015-04-21 19:47:02 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:

Obviously the inferno war changes are the problem. War decs used to DOUBLE after every war dec. The first 2 were pretty cheap (50m, then 100m isk). This would allow the small guys to war dec, and at the same time ensure that too many corps couldnt pile in on an industrial corp at once.

Also remember that the base cost of a war for corporations was 2 million isk with the doubling and a 3 war limit.

This made it possible for very small groups without an alternate source of income to exist. Whereas now the players that would form these groups join an established group rather than creating their own, adding to its power and contributing to its spending capability.

Instead of having many smaller, less dedicated PVP groups that a mixed or pve focused group could actually defend themselves against instead you get these powerful highsec apex alliances that Joe shmoe can't hope to seriously oppose.

There's also the fact that the ally system, or more specifically the unilateral nature of it, makes wars horribly unappealing to groups not entirely geared towards PVP. Not only is it certain that the only people who will ever declare war on you are dedicated PVP groups, but the size and power of those groups will be much, much greater than it used to be.

There were some benefits to the Inferno changes, but overall it has been super harmful to highsec PVP gameplay.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#231 - 2015-04-21 19:47:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

exactly. so what you REALLY meant to say when you listed all those nerfs is that in reality mercs got a buff in wardecing mechanics and those nerfs made it a little better.


Nope, it removed an exploit. And true to form, the carebears moved right on to a different exploit.

Your end goal is that wars either stop existing, or are so weak that they might as well not exist.

The answer is too damn bad. They're too weak already, if anything they need buffed, and their cost dropped to match the price it costs to flip a corp.


buff war decs to the price to flip a corp. This is an example of someone who doesnt have the ability to view life from another's perspective. There are others that want to play the game in their own way. Not your way.

There is a whole universe of pvp opportunities. Why would you want to further buff high sec war mechanics?
Solecist Project
#232 - 2015-04-21 19:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
If you wouldn't nonsensically react to the hate-bait ...
... and instead read and respond the posts of those you were already talking with ...

... it would help.


Let me repeat ... increasing the wardec fee solves nothing.

People still have that money. And your idea opens up the door for abuse,
because people can and will simply wardec themselves using alts.

That would make it unnecessarily expensive in general.
That would mean people group up even more ...

... and THEN we have the same situation as now ...
... with someone new coming up, proposing some idea that simply does not work.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#233 - 2015-04-21 19:48:25 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:

*facedesk* i have repeatedly posted that war decs ARE COOL. I AM FOR WARDECS. The point is if a corp war decs you, and then a second - RARELY does a 3rd. Because it is too expensive.


No. If you don't want people to pile on, you might try shutting your mouth.


Quote:

That is all im wanting. And if i get wardeced by 5 corps- ill know that corp 3-5 paid out the nose and thus im going to blue ball. Dropping the chance they will renew.

Currently it is war dec hot and heavy will little financial consequence


What you want is for deccing anyone to automatically be a waste of time, isk and effort. You want wardecs to be 100% worthless.

The answer is no.

I reiterate, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, please let me know.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#234 - 2015-04-21 19:48:51 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

Obviously the inferno war changes are the problem. War decs used to DOUBLE after every war dec. The first 2 were pretty cheap (50m, then 100m isk). This would allow the small guys to war dec, and at the same time ensure that too many corps couldnt pile in on an industrial corp at once.

Also remember that the base cost of a war for corporations was 2 million isk with the doubling and a 3 war limit.

This made it possible for very small groups without an alternate source of income to exist. Whereas now the players that would form these groups join an established group rather than creating their own, adding to its power and contributing to its spending capability.

Instead of having many smaller, less dedicated PVP groups that a mixed or pve focused group could actually defend themselves against instead you get these powerful highsec apex alliances that Joe shmoe can't hope to seriously oppose.

There's also the fact that the ally system, or more specifically the unilateral nature of it, makes wars horribly unappealing to groups not entirely geared towards PVP. Not only is it certain that the only people who will ever declare war on you are dedicated PVP groups, but the size and power of those groups will be much, much greater than it used to be.

There were some benefits to the Inferno changes, but overall it has been super harmful to highsec PVP gameplay.


+1
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#235 - 2015-04-21 19:49:48 UTC
My only issue with wardecs is that they have no substance. No goals or objectives except your personal ones. I don't mind the current mechanics, but they can easily be avoided and/or abused at the same time by both parties. There is no substance in wardecs like you get out of FW. By substance I mean, capture/destroy X = profit or points. Only profit is from loot, tears, or isk via merc contracts. Wardecs need a better prize/motivator.

I'll bet most wardecs go something like this:

Red 1: We just wardec'd another corp. More targets! YARRHHH!
Red 2: YAH!
Red 3 and up: Alright!! YES!! Awesome!

Blue 1: We got wardec'd. Drop corp or you can just wait it out. Don't undock and give easy kills.
Blue 2: We could just create another corp and all join that.
Blue 1: good idea.

2 days later:
Player 1: Looks like the members of that corp either don't undock, or just dropped corp. No targets.
Player 2: BOOO!!
Players 3 and up: That sucks! They can't do that!

1 week later:
Player 1: Well, that was a waste of isk.
Players 2 and up: Agreed.


Some players are dumb, and those are the ones that get gut punched when a wardec comes around. I say to those people, "Welcome to EVE! Hope you just learned something!"
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#236 - 2015-04-21 19:49:54 UTC
Something you hear a lot in EVE. 'Working as intended'. It should be 'broken as intended'.

Meta is the answer to your question, has been for 12 years. If you can get 50 people, 100 people together you have 'won EVE'. The key is to not have them in the same corp. Just have them in a same channel. Your corps and alliances need to be unwritten until you are in such a place that you can fight back. It's about convincing those people to let go of the broken mechanics like corp. All those one man alliances you see. You think they are truly all alone? They never talk in local and you know their corp channel is dead. Player channels that don't assign them bulls eyes for gankers allow them to operate just as effective as the gank worthy targets without all the hassle.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#237 - 2015-04-21 19:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:

*facedesk* i have repeatedly posted that war decs ARE COOL. I AM FOR WARDECS. The point is if a corp war decs you, and then a second - RARELY does a 3rd. Because it is too expensive.


No. If you don't want people to pile on, you might try shutting your mouth.


Quote:

That is all im wanting. And if i get wardeced by 5 corps- ill know that corp 3-5 paid out the nose and thus im going to blue ball. Dropping the chance they will renew.

Currently it is war dec hot and heavy will little financial consequence


What you want is for deccing anyone to automatically be a waste of time, isk and effort. You want wardecs to be 100% worthless.

The answer is no.

I reiterate, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, please let me know.


What is up with you and mouths? Ive never been war dec'd due to smarting off. I have always been war dec'd because mercs will see 30 of my members in a system and think "kms". I have told you this 2wice, and you are being arrogant and rude.

And i already told you my main as well. Your entering troll territory.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#238 - 2015-04-21 19:52:13 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:

What is up with you and mouths? Ive never been war dec'd due to smarting off.


Yet. Like I said, if anyone finds the carebear corp this guy is trying to hide, let me know.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#239 - 2015-04-21 19:53:05 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
My only issue with wardecs is that they have no substance. No goals or objectives except your personal ones. I don't mind the current mechanics, but they can easily be avoided and/or abused at the same time by both parties. There is no substance in wardecs like you get out of FW. By substance I mean, capture/destroy X = profit or points. Only profit is from loot, tears, or isk via merc contracts. Wardecs need a better prize/motivator.

I'll bet most wardecs go something like this:

Red 1: We just wardec'd another corp. More targets! YARRHHH!
Red 2: YAH!
Red 3 and up: Alright!! YES!! Awesome!

Blue 1: We got wardec'd. Drop corp or you can just wait it out. Don't undock and give easy kills.
Blue 2: We could just create another corp and all join that.
Blue 1: good idea.

2 days later:
Player 1: Looks like the members of that corp either don't undock, or just dropped corp. No targets.
Player 2: BOOO!!
Players 3 and up: That sucks! They can't do that!

1 week later:
Player 1: Well, that was a waste of isk.
Players 2 and up: Agreed.


Some players are dumb, and those are the ones that get gut punched when a wardec comes around. I say to those people, "Welcome to EVE! Hope you just learned something!"


Problem with dropping corps is that it looks really bad on your employment history.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#240 - 2015-04-21 19:53:12 UTC
Options, possibilities, choices....rules. You know what? Given the direction this thread is going, I opt to do the following as last resort:

This thread has been moved to Crime & Punishment.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)