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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#161 - 2015-04-21 16:59:34 UTC
I just want to know what the end game is. When all is said and done and it's impossible to destroy another player's ship in highsec then what? How is the game going to be better, what kind of super amazing content will that generate?

Where is the value of removing PVP gameplay meant to be?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#162 - 2015-04-21 17:05:40 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Stay a while and listen while I tell you the story of my people


Dracvlad, sorry to break it to you but the reason you got wardecced was your crying on the forums.
No goon plot to "get you" or anything involved.
The onus for your corpies leaving is therefor on you. They didn't want to go after marmites or whoever and you pestered them untill they left for GTA. Learn from that.

For all the impact you think you have otherwise, you are (as I, I admit) quite irrelevant.
You being docked somewhere doesn't impact anyone. Forums are a fun pastime for me so... meh.
Someone getting killed somewhere in a game about killing stuff is again... Well, you know what I mean.

Please stop derailing this thread with post about how you are bad at EVE and want EVE to drop to your level.
Either shape up or ship out. No tears will be shed, anyway the wind blows.

D.

Bear


Really, yet at the same time you war dec'd a number of other anti-gankers who had been active in Niarja, coincidence, not really, in fact the other corp in my alliance was independently war dec'd by your before they joined us.

Crying, not at all, going after a poster who was making statements about carebears and yet had not killed a single ship nor had he lost anything either. If that is crying then you need to think a bit deeper.

My corpies have fought the Orphanage and Marmite in other corps, they just have no interest in you and your alliance, GTA 5 coming along was the final nail. Play Eve and have people in instra lock ships run away, yeah right, GTA 5 wins for them.

Of course I am irrelevant, and I am docked now, but was not earlier, in fact I was moving a load of ships I brought back through a WH from Stain into lowsec and I was moving them to Osmon and yet not a single Marmite showed up for 8 hours, thats bad at Eve. Either you want to kill me or you don't, yesterday I was saving a freighter from the Goons for over two hours and yet again no show from Marmite. Do you honestly do anything, you cannot even take down my POS, talk about useless and bad at Eve.

But my post was to detail the issue with war decs in terms of having no reason to fight, I have no reason to fight you people and calling me names does not work either, I am seriously not bothered by anything you say and that shows how bad you are.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2015-04-21 17:06:42 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I just want to know what the end game is. When all is said and done and it's impossible to destroy another player's ship in highsec then what? How is the game going to be better, what kind of super amazing content will that generate?

Where is the value of removing PVP gameplay meant to be?

Then we can level our Ravens and mine in peace while watching youtube. Sounds like Shangra-la to me
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#164 - 2015-04-21 17:11:41 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2015-04-21 17:14:24 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?


My offer still stands to show you.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#166 - 2015-04-21 17:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Freya Sertan
alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?


Fight back. Show you're willing to defend YOUR CORP. Don't just ******* hide, do something. Prove that you have some teeth and maybe they will end the wardec.

Seriously. It's YOUR corp, ******* defend it.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#167 - 2015-04-21 17:19:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
But my post was to detail the issue with war decs in terms of having no reason to fight, I have no reason to fight you people and calling me names does not work either, I am seriously not bothered by anything you say and that shows how bad you are.


You insisting on writing pagelong essays of how much you don't care isn't very convincing.
Just saying.

I haven't called you any names and if I did, that wouldn't change anything about the fact you clearly are clueless when it comes to hisec wars.

But let's drink your brand of coolaid for a minute;
You aren't bothered by wardecs, in fact, you welcome them.
What's your point or better yet problem than?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#168 - 2015-04-21 17:25:35 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?


I tell ya what.

I'm in an NPC corp right now because I can't find a good player corp that fits. I'll join yours, today, and fight in your war for you. Maybe, the dedication of ONE person, unrelated to your corp other than the fact that I want you to fight back, might show the corp behind the wardec that they can lift it.

I am no good at PvP but I am not afraid to lose a ship. If you won't defend your corp, I will. SOMEONE has to, eh?

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

Valedictio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2015-04-21 17:25:36 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?


AT ONCE ( What happened to the 24 hr Period ? )

PERMANENTLY ( Yeah if they feel like renewing the fee )

a 1 man corps can wardec just as well as a 1000 man corps,

What I would really like to know is why YOU managed to have everyone permadec your corps, for that to happen you or a member of your corps must have done something to someone ?

Is this more a case of you paying the consequences of your actions and crying that it's not fair ?

action/reaction, I have had decs against and declared them ( POS Bashing for isk) even had corps jumpers kill some corpies, (1 man corps suddenly grows a few members), I laughed at them for being stupid.

So what happened to bring this hurt locker to you ?

and now for some more of the same from the Constructive Feedback Consortium.

Human Torch time and ..........'FLAME ON'

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#170 - 2015-04-21 17:28:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Stay a while and listen while I tell you the story of my people


Dracvlad, sorry to break it to you but the reason you got wardecced was your crying on the forums.
No goon plot to "get you" or anything involved.
The onus for your corpies leaving is therefor on you. They didn't want to go after marmites or whoever and you pestered them untill they left for GTA. Learn from that.

For all the impact you think you have otherwise, you are (as I, I admit) quite irrelevant.
You being docked somewhere doesn't impact anyone. Forums are a fun pastime for me so... meh.
Someone getting killed somewhere in a game about killing stuff is again... Well, you know what I mean.

Please stop derailing this thread with post about how you are bad at EVE and want EVE to drop to your level.
Either shape up or ship out. No tears will be shed, anyway the wind blows.

D.

Bear


Really, yet at the same time you war dec'd a number of other anti-gankers who had been active in Niarja, coincidence, not really, in fact the other corp in my alliance was independently war dec'd by your before they joined us.

Crying, not at all, going after a poster who was making statements about carebears and yet had not killed a single ship nor had he lost anything either. If that is crying then you need to think a bit deeper.

My corpies have fought the Orphanage and Marmite in other corps, they just have no interest in you and your alliance, GTA 5 coming along was the final nail. Play Eve and have people in instra lock ships run away, yeah right, GTA 5 wins for them.

Of course I am irrelevant, and I am docked now, but was not earlier, in fact I was moving a load of ships I brought back through a WH from Stain into lowsec and I was moving them to Osmon and yet not a single Marmite showed up for 8 hours, thats bad at Eve. Either you want to kill me or you don't, yesterday I was saving a freighter from the Goons for over two hours and yet again no show from Marmite. Do you honestly do anything, you cannot even take down my POS, talk about useless and bad at Eve.

But my post was to detail the issue with war decs in terms of having no reason to fight, I have no reason to fight you people and calling me names does not work either, I am seriously not bothered by anything you say and that shows how bad you are.



Siggi is getting ripped off, it appears. Hope he didn't spend ISK on the merc contract.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Solecist Project
#171 - 2015-04-21 17:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?

Not every corp is destined to do so.
That's a matter of fact.

If we hadn't natural selection, which seperates the strong from the weak ...
... how do you think it would look like?

Without corps falling apart, there would be no point to corps at all.

Everyone could grow his corp potentially forever.


What I mean to say is that ...
... no one has the right to grow a corp.

If your corpmembers are not willing to fight for the corp ...
... then you have bad corpmembers ...
... which means the corp would have failed anyway.

If you have issues defending yourself, then ...

... the CEO needs to learn and teach his member.
... the CEO needs to hire someone who teaches it.
... the corp breaks from being naturally selected.


There are thousands of active corps out there ...
... and they are just fine for one reason or another. Or several.


And I honestly can not stress enough that a bunch of noobs ...
... even day old chars ...
... can help defend their corp based on the instructions of people who know how.

Give me a group of five or ten people ...
... and we'll win that 300man war with them.

Because numbers count for nothing in the long run.
Ask LOVESQUAD.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#172 - 2015-04-21 17:33:08 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
OP: Spends a paragraph discussing how good an EVE Commander he is; posts on an alt. Roll

Sorry but I've played games with highsec war players. I've gotten a few kills in them and a lot of losses. Thing is, I'm -really- bad at this game, and I was working solo. I firmly believe a mix of competency + friends I could have delt my share of blows in highsec wars. When I'm in a real PVP alliance, even 20 man or so, we usually got a few kills and no losses from wars.


I understand your your feelings towards this matter. I used an alt because im known to be controversial, and i didnt want that getting in the way of what i feel is very important.

9 pages later, and healthy discussion - clearly this was the right choice.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#173 - 2015-04-21 17:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Solecist Project wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
[quote=Destiny Corrupted]I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?

If we hadn't natural selection, which seperates the strong from the weak ...
... how do you think it would look like?

Without corps falling apart, there would be no point to corps at all.

Everyone could grow his corp potentially forever.


What I mean to say is that ...
... no one has the right to grow a corp.


Ask LOVESQUAD.


Your arguement is that in high sec, where npc factions rule, that you should be able to crush any industrial corporation because you feel that you are superior.

Your arguement fits best in low/null sec. High sec is where new bros learn to grow in the game. How can that be achieved when 50m+ sp characters are in a 300 man group shooting down 5m sp characters and calling it leet pvp?

How can such low skill characters that most often trained into a mining barge even hope to fight off faction fit Battleships?

My arguement IS NOT that this SHOULD NOT happen. Im ok with faction fit BS's chasing down miners in a corp. However it is the Number and duration of it that i find broken.

A pvp alliance can war dec just anyone anyone, at once, for an unlimited amount of time because the costs are so low.
Raise the costs.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#174 - 2015-04-21 17:43:42 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
But my post was to detail the issue with war decs in terms of having no reason to fight, I have no reason to fight you people and calling me names does not work either, I am seriously not bothered by anything you say and that shows how bad you are.


You insisting on writing pagelong essays of how much you don't care isn't very convincing.
Just saying.

I haven't called you any names and if I did, that wouldn't change anything about the fact you clearly are clueless when it comes to hisec wars.

But let's drink your brand of coolaid for a minute;
You aren't bothered by wardecs, in fact, you welcome them.
What's your point or better yet problem than?

D.

Bear


As if I care, you say you war dec'd me because I took some loser to task over his killboard when he was sprouting HTFU rubbish in another thread and yet you don't even come after me, this exchange between me and you lies at the heart of the disconnect of war dec's, I happen to think you war decc'd us because you were paid, but all I am is added to the pot so your instra lockers can kill a few noobs. But lets suppose you did not, you did it because of something I said, yet you have not hunted me, you have not taken down my POS, what is the reason for your war dec, how can you make me cry, except by laughing too hard. Thankyou for making me laugh so much.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Memphis Baas
#175 - 2015-04-21 17:49:03 UTC
Raise the costs won't do much. But if they go that route, maybe they should implement HIGH cost for a big discrepancy in members, so that two large alliances wardeccing each other costs almost nothing, but 300 people wardeccing 20 costs A LOT.

But again, as it's been pointed out, people are opposed to rules that break the freedom of the sandbox and protect the carebears with artificial rules.
Paranoid Loyd
#176 - 2015-04-21 17:50:24 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
I used an alt because im known to be controversial
So you are admitting you have a big mouth yet you are wondering why you are permadecced?

Maybe try STFU?

If you can't defend yourself, why would you draw attention to yourself by being controversial?

If you can't keep a low profile then you should not be running an industrial corp.

There are plenty of successful indy corps, but you've never heard of them. Guess why? Because they know how to keep good relations and keep their mouths shut.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#177 - 2015-04-21 17:51:53 UTC
Valedictio wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?



Because those that war dec only want to shoot at miners? And not engage in actual pvp?

My point isnt that an industrial corp shouldnt be war dec'd at all. But currently the ability for 300+ people to war dec AT ONCE and PERMANENTLY does seem right. How is a corp supposed to grow to a point where it can defend itself?


AT ONCE ( What happened to the 24 hr Period ? )

PERMANENTLY ( Yeah if they feel like renewing the fee )

a 1 man corps can wardec just as well as a 1000 man corps,

What I would really like to know is why YOU managed to have everyone permadec your corps, for that to happen you or a member of your corps must have done something to someone ?

Is this more a case of you paying the consequences of your actions and crying that it's not fair ?

action/reaction, I have had decs against and declared them ( POS Bashing for isk) even had corps jumpers kill some corpies, (1 man corps suddenly grows a few members), I laughed at them for being stupid.

So what happened to bring this hurt locker to you ?


AT ONCE - meaning multiple alliances war decing at the same time
Permanently - you answered your own question
What? Are you saying that 1 man corp can war dec an equal amount of 1000 man corps? I dont understand your point
Neither. More of a case of 30 corpies being online at the same time and leet pvpers looking for easy kills.
What happened is listed in the original post

Thanks for your comments!
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#178 - 2015-04-21 17:54:21 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
I used an alt because im known to be controversial
So you are admitting you have a big mouth yet you are wondering why you are permadecced?

Maybe try STFU?

If you can't defend yourself, why would you draw attention to yourself by being controversial?

If you can't keep a low profile then you should not be running an industrial corp.

There are plenty of successful indy corps, but you've never heard of them. Guess why? Because they know how to keep good relations and keep their mouths shut.


Controversial in null sec. And i didnt use my null sec character to create a high sec corp.
Its difficult to keep a 'low profile' in an industry corp when 30+ peeps are online at once.
Please educate me about these 'good relations' between industrial corps and merc alliances.

Does 'good relations' mean having to pay a ransom constantly?
Solecist Project
#179 - 2015-04-21 17:54:32 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
[quote=Destiny Corrupted]I'm going to give you a really big clue, OP. And I won't post it on an alt, either. Are you ready?

As someone who has ran/currently is running multiple high-sec piracy/mercenary corporations, I haven't had any problem with incoming war declarations, even in the very, very rare instances in which we actually received them.

Why do you think this is?

If we hadn't natural selection, which seperates the strong from the weak ...
... how do you think it would look like?

Without corps falling apart, there would be no point to corps at all.

Everyone could grow his corp potentially forever.


What I mean to say is that ...
... no one has the right to grow a corp.


Ask LOVESQUAD.


Your arguement is that in high sec, where npc factions rule, that you should be able to crush any industrial corporation because you feel that you are superior.

Your arguement fits best in low/null sec. High sec is where new bros learn to grow in the game. How can that be achieved when 50m+ sp characters are in a 300 man group shooting down 5m sp characters and calling it leet pvp?

How can such low skill characters that most often trained into a mining barge even hope to fight off faction fit Battleships?

My arguement IS NOT that this SHOULD NOT happen. Im ok with faction fit BS's chasing down miners in a corp. However it is the Number and duration of it that i find broken.

A pvp alliance can war dec just anyone anyone, at once, for an unlimited amount of time because the costs are so low.
Raise the costs.
No.
You put words in my mouth and argue as if I had personal feelings about it.
These are yours. Superiority is a matter of fact, as long as it is proven.

Nature works that way.

The weak perish.
It's natural and allows organic growth.

You seem not to know that new playwrs with proper instructions can
bring down battleships. Takes them what, an hour ? to learn with practise.
You not knowing better does not change that.

And someone who can fly a barge can fly a frigate.
Can skill ten minutes to ecm.
Can lock, activate a module and orbit.


All that stands in your way of realising what's going on ...
... is realising that you are missing far more than you are aware of.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#180 - 2015-04-21 17:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Dracvlad wrote:

As if I care, you say you war dec'd me because I took some loser to task over his killboard when he was sprouting HTFU rubbish in another thread and yet you don't even come after me, this exchange between me and you lies at the heart of the disconnect of war dec's, I happen to think you war decc'd us because you were paid, but all I am is added to the pot so your instra lockers can kill a few noobs. But lets suppose you did not, you did it because of something I said, yet you have not hunted me, you have not taken down my POS, what is the reason for your war dec, how can you make me cry, except by laughing too hard. Thankyou for making me laugh so much.


Look at it like a trapper.

I go out and set traps... hundreds of them.
Than I do my rounds... sometimes I get lots of game, sometimes I get none.
I have fun.

You assume waaaay too much:

because I took some loser to task over his killboard when he was sprouting HTFU rubbish
WHAT are you talking about?
you don't even come after me
Did, twice. You ran. Twice.
this exchange between me and you lies at the heart of the disconnect of war dec's
Wait, what?! It has nothing to do with wardecs. This exchange is nothing but that. An exchange.
you war decc'd us because you were paid
nop.
your instra lockers can kill a few noobs.
My what? What are you on about?
yet you have not hunted me.
See above, twice.
you have not taken down my POS
Yet, keep talking.

what is the reason for your war dec, how can you make me cry,

He cried...

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment