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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#121 - 2015-04-21 11:41:02 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Actually the main issue is to have something to fight over, which is what I suggested in my first post in this thread, I think the new structures as proposed will change this so people have something useful to fight over. You guys should be very excited over that, think that through, because its exciting to me. The whole argument about people dropping corps and evading is irrelevent, because those that have skin in the game will have to defend it, perhaps then your scatter gun approach is no longer needed and then you will stop whining about it. The only issue you will have is that the people who don't want to and can't fight will be able to have no skin in the game and will re-create their corp, so what.

Why be in a corp at all if not to have something to fight for?
Taxes, structures, social cohesion, a name for yourself, a reputation, etc..
People dropping corp in a hearthbeat is hardly irrelevant, it's broken beyond belief.
Please refrain from putting words in my mouth, I haven't spoken out for or against what you call 'shotgun approach' let alone whined about it.

Dracvlad wrote:
I reject your premise, there are always consequences in Eve and rightly so, and in any case if there was no war decs people would still gank and that is something that has a whole sub culture around it, epic fights around a bumped freighter.

So you propose a buff to ganking instead to compensate the lack of other risks? Please elaborate.

Dracvlad wrote:

Mean, well actually incorrect, first check out my killboard, I do have one you know, SISI is not playing against other people, its wiped out, its meaningless. My fun in this game is to play regardless of people trying to stop me, yesterday in spit of a war dec from you I went and helped save a freighter from the Goons, we won, I was waiting for one of your chaps to come along and I would have gone for him, but no show.
I am still in corp, still moving around in hisec and neither your alliance or Foresaken have killed me, gold star when you do...

What you are saying is you don't play on sisi because it's meaningless? The fact that no other players are there to try and interfere with your group makes it bland and boring, worthless even?
Good on you for mocking the big bad mercs; Now go and spread that message of defianec to the others instead of crying/whining(?) for nerfs!

D.

Bear


Is the bear thing supposed to annoy me, works not at all, after all I have killed stuff and died in game, I take risks and can afford to do so.

First of all in terms of your comments about being in a corp, the things you talk about do not matter to the people you mainly war dec, they have no skin in your game and CCP is right to allow these people to re-create their corps to lose a war dec, must annoy the hell out of all thgose one man spoiler corps that used to do spoiling war decs all the time. The changes to structures means that they will be worth putting up in hisec and will be a big target for people who want to fight, much better than a POS. Mine is still standing by the way, please come and blow it up!!!

Ganking lacks real consequences, however I think it is perfectly OK and adds to the game, I have enjoyed engaging against the Goons to stop them from destroying hisec markets and industry.

Where have I called for nerfs, I think the re-creation of corps is a balance against one man spoiling war decs and scatter gun war decs. Perfect balance in fact, but I have seen you complain about this corp re-creation and people leaving corp, you did it here by saying it is broken, it is not, if you lock people in a corp while there is a war dec then that is broken, for example people in my corp might find me a pompous windbag and want to leave and you would force them to stay?

Defience, defience against camping hubs, I use an out of corp alt, using pipes he does that too, well I cannot go hit the gankers in Mad at this point, but that is just one of those things, but the person I was going after is now in Uedama, so objective achieved.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#122 - 2015-04-21 11:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Solecist Project wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well you are a legend in your own lunchtime, Eve is the easiest game to infiltrate other entities,its so easy I have zero respect for anyone who does it as all you need to do is buy an existing toon on a clean account and your golden, rather like the OP in fact...

The answer is simply that some people find it too much fun taking candy from babies, it makes their self worth greater, I on the other hand have always played this game against enemies who are more numerous and better equipped then me and that I have thrived and survived is all I need to say in return to you, my killboard speaks for itself...

Well if you know how legendary I am, then you should also know that I do this for the entertainment (drama), and to see whether or not I can turn a particular corporation around by steering it towards a modicum of efficiency. The fact that you feel the need to bring your killboard into this shows just how insecure you feel about your place in this entire debate.

But you know what? I'm not going to go down this path. Instead, I will tell you that you're right; I do find it a lot of fun taking candy from babies. Now you need tell me why I shouldn't be able to do this in the game called EVE Online.

Relevant side question: How often does it happen you recruit people this way?
Like pulling them out of the corp, to your own?

I understand that it can be hard to notice yet locked up potential.

"Recruiting by shooting" works, so this might as well.

Rarely, but it has happened. I tend to play with a close group of friends anyway, so there isn't much room for recruitment.

At the very least, I tend to give lots of practical advice to the people on the pointy ends of my guns, but I have to say that very few take it. Half wish cancer on my family, and another forty percent simply ignore it. Most players simply can't get over their pixels getting blown up, and hate you forever.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2015-04-21 11:45:21 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
afkalt wrote:
So my question to the floor is - what are you wardeccing FOR?

This is a good question. My answer: to extract a ransom/maintain a protection racket, or as part of a mercenary contract in which someone else hired me to conduct a war for any reason (I don't ask).



Thank you :)

Setting aside merc work as that question should be posed of the hiring unit. The former will very much against some corps, for other people I rather suspect repeatedly suicide ganking until they pay you is the way forward there (actually there's probably a lot of money in that) - I'm thinking here NPC bears doing missions etc.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#124 - 2015-04-21 11:49:02 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
afkalt wrote:
So my question to the floor is - what are you wardeccing FOR?

This is a good question. My answer: to extract a ransom/maintain a protection racket, or as part of a mercenary contract in which someone else hired me to conduct a war for any reason (I don't ask).



Thank you :)

Setting aside merc work as that question should be posed of the hiring unit. The former will very much against some corps, for other people I rather suspect repeatedly suicide ganking until they pay you is the way forward there (actually there's probably a lot of money in that) - I'm thinking here NPC bears doing missions etc.

You can actually ransom freighters with the threat of a gank while bumping them. Aside from that, wars get the message across quicker than ganking does. Ganking is useful for showing someone that you mean business even if they choose to corp-hop or dissolve entirely, but it's not a good opener, due to the cost factor. And a war allows me to keep the ransom relatively low, while ganking would raise it every single time due to the quick accumulation of sunk costs. Ganking is simply better for one-time profit off of a specific target.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2015-04-21 12:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
afkalt wrote:
So my question to the floor is - what are you wardeccing FOR?

This is a good question. My answer: to extract a ransom/maintain a protection racket, or as part of a mercenary contract in which someone else hired me to conduct a war for any reason (I don't ask).



Thank you :)

Setting aside merc work as that question should be posed of the hiring unit. The former will very much against some corps, for other people I rather suspect repeatedly suicide ganking until they pay you is the way forward there (actually there's probably a lot of money in that) - I'm thinking here NPC bears doing missions etc.

You can actually ransom freighters with the threat of a gank while bumping them. Aside from that, wars get the message across quicker than ganking does. Ganking is useful for showing someone that you mean business even if they choose to corp-hop or dissolve entirely, but it's not a good opener, due to the cost factor. And a war allows me to keep the ransom relatively low, while ganking would raise it every single time due to the quick accumulation of sunk costs. Ganking is simply better for one-time profit off of a specific target.



Absolutely, it depends on the target and the aim of the objective - which was my original question/point - wars are a tool in the box, but they are not always an appropriate tool for every target. Research should be done as to the most effective way to squeeze a given target with a set objective in mind.

I'd not open with a gank either, after one has a suitable reputation as you said the threat of violence is often going to be enough but nor would I wardec that "one man corp", I'd go straight to a thrasher based welcome.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#126 - 2015-04-21 12:06:09 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You can actually ransom freighters with the threat of a gank while bumping them. Aside from that, wars get the message across quicker than ganking does. Ganking is useful for showing someone that you mean business even if they choose to corp-hop or dissolve entirely, but it's not a good opener, due to the cost factor. And a war allows me to keep the ransom relatively low, while ganking would raise it every single time due to the quick accumulation of sunk costs. Ganking is simply better for one-time profit off of a specific target.

Ganking is good for overloaded/overfit ships, and to make a point to a specific person as you say, but should not be the preferred PvP mechanism in highsec. Wardecs are good as, at least in theory they target the earning potential of the character, while still allowing the player to drop out of the war to the NPC corp if they had enough. They encourage PvPers to go after the organization, not a specific person to allow conflict to take place between groups in highsec, ideally over resources.

If I followed a person around and continually ganked them I would quickly run into the harassment rules of CCP, even if I claimed I was just looking for a ransom. Having a condition - being in a player corp - that signals I am seeking increased reward in exchange for the risk of a wardec is better game design as I can withdraw that consent by dropping to the NPC corp (and forgoing the increased reward) at any time.

This is why both wardecs and the value of being in a player corp should be strengthened so meaningful conflict over increased rewards can take place. Relying on ganking, which has already been made quite costly in recent years, as the only PvP mechanism in highsec is not desirable or good game design. Hopefully the new structures will provide that benefit to players and make corps worth fighting for.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#127 - 2015-04-21 12:12:03 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Absolutely, it depends on the target and the aim of the objective - which was my original question/point - wars are a tool in the box, but they are not always an appropriate tool for every target. Research should be done as to the most effective way to squeeze a given target with a set objective in mind.

I'd not open with a gank either, after one has a suitable reputation as you said the threat of violence is often going to be enough but nor would I wardec that "one man corp", I'd go straight to a thrasher based welcome.

The problem is that CCP keeps taking these tools out of the box, and now we're left with just two: wars and ganking. We used to have stuff like the lofty, the awox, can-baiting, tricking someone into shooting you and then getting CONCORDed, remote assistance suicide-assassinations, etc etc. And then CCP implemented aggro transfer restrictions to prevent the lofty, a "friendly fire" toggle to prevent the awox, a safety that prevents someone from being tricked into shooting you, automatic shutoff for modules in case of aggression, etc etc. We're down to exactly two methods of killing someone in high-sec that the victim can't nullify by flipping a switch. That's saying a lot. Just two more nerfs, I guess.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Valedictio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2015-04-21 12:19:16 UTC
ok I will try to be constructive and on topic.

Hi-Sec War Decs are Broken ? Not from what I can see, if an agressor targets a corps and that corps disbands to go elsewhere isn't that a victory of sorts for the aggressor ?

Unless a player corps has tangible assets that are vulnerable to an attacker then I can see no real reason other than a personal grievance for declaring against a corps.

War Dec Mechanics as far as I can tell work as intended ( I am no expert ), If an Aggressor finds something vulnerable and engages it then the Defender has the option to either Defend or Lose that asset.

Dropping corps or Docking up is simply the most isk efficient way of avoiding a fight that you feel you have no chance of winning, I haven't met many leet pvper who would willingly go into a fight they know they would lose, Have you ?

This is a sandbox at the end of the day, there is no 'way it is meant to be played'.

We have our set of rules to the box and we all play within them, how you play is up to you, complaining how others do is indicitive of the type of person you are.

Personally I am rather garbage at solo/small gang pvp but make a rather good f1 bunny ( I keep my mouth shut and do exactly what I'm told to ), however I like the indy playstyle with a fully skilled inventor, max skilled boosters etc etc.

To sum it all up. War Decs are not broken if they are used for an intended purpose, Disbandment, Disruption, Destruction (In space assets), the problem with them only occurs if they are being used to grief an individual or farm easy kills when the target doesn't comply.

Oh and for a certain individual, the game is not all about loss, to me it is all about me enjoying myself.

and now for some more of the same from the Constructive Feedback Consortium.

Human Torch time and ..........'FLAME ON'

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#129 - 2015-04-21 12:21:58 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Absolutely, it depends on the target and the aim of the objective - which was my original question/point - wars are a tool in the box, but they are not always an appropriate tool for every target. Research should be done as to the most effective way to squeeze a given target with a set objective in mind.

I'd not open with a gank either, after one has a suitable reputation as you said the threat of violence is often going to be enough but nor would I wardec that "one man corp", I'd go straight to a thrasher based welcome.

The problem is that CCP keeps taking these tools out of the box, and now we're left with just two: wars and ganking. We used to have stuff like the lofty, the awox, can-baiting, tricking someone into shooting you and then getting CONCORDed, remote assistance suicide-assassinations, etc etc. And then CCP implemented aggro transfer restrictions to prevent the lofty, a "friendly fire" toggle to prevent the awox, a safety that prevents someone from being tricked into shooting you, automatic shutoff for modules in case of aggression, etc etc. We're down to exactly two methods of killing someone in high-sec that the victim can't nullify by flipping a switch. That's saying a lot. Just two more nerfs, I guess.


That was really a big whine there.

Lofty, don't know that one, but awoxing you can still do, lowsec and nullsec, can flipping has been replaced by suspect baiting and some people do it very well, like the guy in Osmon using a Fenrir. In affect all the changes have done is forced people like you to up your game and take more risk, you do not like it do you?

invulnerable RR, was one of the reasons why so many people decided not to fight war dec's, its so much better now, we have people out of corp in fleet waiting to jump them, you don't like that do you. Ganking has only got more expensive in terms of the fact that some ships were given a slightly better tank, CCP finely worked out on balance.

The dropping from corp, or recreation of corps was to get away from the large number of one man war dec corps that did nothing for the whole war dec, and yet you blame the carebears for your own folly. At least the people I knew in the Orphanage did not have your attitude...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-04-21 12:22:32 UTC
The interesting thing about this discussion whenever it shows up is it always seems to focus on the individual player. You know, there must be player lose because space reasons, aggression should follow players because space reasons, etc.

The problem is that the player can always avoid the dec. even if the game won't allow them to drop corp, they can always simply choose not to play, and no HTFU or space honor argument can change this.

At least to me, it seems better to focus on giving corps a better reason to exist, like impose a concord tax to corps that drops over a slightly less than trivia period of time or is tied to a structure in space. Corp own structures for other benefits is another reason. No-one is going to leave their PVE comfort zone to defend a corp hanger, name and channel, and players can and will always avoid conflict they see no gain from. Expecting this to change is not productive.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#131 - 2015-04-21 12:22:44 UTC
Valedictio wrote:
Oh and for a certain individual, the game is not all about loss, to me it is all about me enjoying myself.

You just said that you like your "indy playstyle." Would you be able to enjoy yourself if there was no demand for the items you produce?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#132 - 2015-04-21 12:25:33 UTC
Valedictio wrote:

To sum it all up. War Decs are not broken if they are used for an intended purpose, Disbandment, Disruption, Destruction (In space assets), the problem with them only occurs if they are being used to grief an individual or farm easy kills when the target doesn't comply.


Allmost there. Doesn't compute just yet.

Griefing and wars don't match. They have nothing to do with each other.
Farming easy kills doesn't exists. Everyone is an easy kill if they allow it.
Case in point: minute-old-newbie is not an easy kill persé. And even than, they are protected by not being in a corp from the get-go and agreements on not messing with noobs in the noob systems.

They join a corp and move out? No longer are they easy targets because they are in a fricking corp.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2015-04-21 12:30:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Absolutely, it depends on the target and the aim of the objective - which was my original question/point - wars are a tool in the box, but they are not always an appropriate tool for every target. Research should be done as to the most effective way to squeeze a given target with a set objective in mind.

I'd not open with a gank either, after one has a suitable reputation as you said the threat of violence is often going to be enough but nor would I wardec that "one man corp", I'd go straight to a thrasher based welcome.

The problem is that CCP keeps taking these tools out of the box, and now we're left with just two: wars and ganking. We used to have stuff like the lofty, the awox, can-baiting, tricking someone into shooting you and then getting CONCORDed, remote assistance suicide-assassinations, etc etc. And then CCP implemented aggro transfer restrictions to prevent the lofty, a "friendly fire" toggle to prevent the awox, a safety that prevents someone from being tricked into shooting you, automatic shutoff for modules in case of aggression, etc etc. We're down to exactly two methods of killing someone in high-sec that the victim can't nullify by flipping a switch. That's saying a lot. Just two more nerfs, I guess.


There are still various options, mainly around suspect and killright baiting but generally I tend to agree, although I'd say the trend is towards making it harder to trick people as opposed to wrecking opportunities for decent fights or to inflict pressure on enemy corps as a whole.

I don't think all is lost however, as the decent hyperdunking (who came up with that by way, worst name ever) ruling shows.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#134 - 2015-04-21 12:31:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Dracvlad wrote:
Lofty, don't know that one, but awoxing you can still do, lowsec and nullsec, can flipping has been replaced by suspect baiting and some people do it very well, like the guy in Osmon using a Fenrir. In affect all the changes have done is forced people like you to up your game and take more risk, you do not like it do you?

invulnerable RR, was one of the reasons why so many people decided not to fight war dec's, its so much better now, we have people out of corp in fleet waiting to jump them, you don't like that do you. Ganking has only got more expensive in terms of the fact that some ships were given a slightly better tank, CCP finely worked out on balance.

The dropping from corp, or recreation of corps was to get away from the large number of one man war dec corps that did nothing for the whole war dec, and yet you blame the carebears for your own folly. At least the people I knew in the Orphanage did not have your attitude...

- You can do anything in low-sec and null-sec. But we're not discussing low-sec and null-sec here.

- Suspect baiting is great and all, but still completely nullified by the safety setting.

- I like risk, but I also like fairness. Pirate players should be treated as fairly as any others, within the confines of the game's environment. Telling pirate players that they should have all the risk just because they support the concept of it is unfair and inane.

- I never brought up invulnerable RR as a point of contention. This was actually a good change.

- Ganking got more expensive because most industrial ships got EHP increases in the hundreds of percentage points ranges, and because insurance was removed for losses to CONCORD.

- If the one-man corp aggressors do nothing for the duration of a war, then why do the "victims" even have to disband? I don't follow here.

- I was in The Orphanage.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2015-04-21 12:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
- Suspect baiting is great and all, but still completely nullified by the safety setting.


It's not - what at least I and (I assume) he meant is people sit in (often) haulers whilst flashy yellow.

However a swift dscan will (typically) reveal: boosting T3, orca and 2-3 logistic ships on short scan


Other variations are suspects having their buddies shoot them in a shiny ship to make it look as though everyone is dogpiling to draw people in looking to whore on the kill.

And so forth.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#136 - 2015-04-21 12:39:46 UTC
To the OP:

If you care to try again, I offer consultancy for your new corp. For free.
Send me an in game mail and I will assist in making it work for you in hisec.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#137 - 2015-04-21 12:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Danalee wrote:
To the OP:

If you care to try again, I offer consultancy for your new corp. For free.
Send me an in game mail and I will assist in making it work for you in hisec.

D.

Bear

This is extremely noble, and there was a time that I wasn't so cynical as to believe it's futile. But a player like the OP, who's "done everything," doesn't seem like the type of person who's receptive to advice.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#138 - 2015-04-21 12:46:30 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Do you think it's OK for large non PVP organisations to exist and be allowed to farm isk 24/7 freely and without consequence?
Also, do you think this situation would be good for the game and it's economy?
I think it's irrelevant, because the same people currently farm isk 24/7 with little effect on the economy, they simply do it from 1 man alt corps or NPC corps. I think that allowing them to exist under a united banner would be healthier for the social elements of the game which we know improves player retention. Personally I'd like to see wardecs as they currently stand removed and alternate methods of attacking corps and their income streams which are profitable for the aggressors to be added which aren't simply a "turn off concord" mechanic.


Ok Lucas, that puts your point in perspective.

As long as their is no alternative, don't you agree we need to keep wardecs as they are and maybe even think about the social corps combined with strict limits on NPC corps?

D.

Bear
Yeah, there definitely needs to be at least the start of a replacement. I don't think there should be any more imposed limits on NPC corps however. I'd like to see people opt to move into player corps rather than be pushed, and feel that forcing people out of NPC corps would only push them into solo player corps, which is arguably worse as they then have zero interaction rather than the limited interaction they have though NPC corp chat now.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Dana Goodeye
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2015-04-21 12:46:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dana Goodeye
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You just said that you like your "indy playstyle." Would you be able to enjoy yourself if there was no demand for the items you produce?

do you want to tell that, the hisec indies generates the most of the demand of ships/mods? im pretty sure, the hisec gankers, the losec/nullsec pvpers/ratters buying a lot more stuff than the hisec indies. i mean if an indi pilot buy something, its usually for build more stuff. if a pvper buys something, you can be sure, at least eve will lose one ship at minimum in a short time =D pvpers makes the demands on the market, the indies fulfill them, the traders are exploit booth parties =D i think we should do something to be able to gank station traders =P oh... btw the only way to nullfy or what the suspect baiting is not shooting it, or killing it. you can do booth on green safety you know :)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#140 - 2015-04-21 12:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Dana Goodeye wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You just said that you like your "indy playstyle." Would you be able to enjoy yourself if there was no demand for the items you produce?

do you want to tell that, the hisec indies generates the most of the demand of ships/mods? im pretty sure, the hisec gankers, the losec/nullsec pvpers/ratters buying a lot more stuff than the hisec indies. i mean if an indi pilot buy something, its usually for build more stuff. if a pvper buys something, you can be sure, at least eve will lose one ship at minimum in a short time =D pvpers makes the demands on the market, the indies fulfill them, the traders are exploit booth parties =D i think we should do something to be able to gank station traders =P

Once again, according to data provided by CCP throughout the years, the majority of pvp losses by total value happen in high-sec.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q3-2010.pdf

Page 36.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted