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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#241 - 2015-04-09 08:14:53 UTC
Prt Scr wrote:


As much as i hate to say this, i believe that the best way to fight PL (unless you are the goons or maybe N3 ) is to deny them content. That is not to fight them ever, Let them take all your sov, kill your POS. just never fight them.



many 0.0 alliances have made that mistake.

the thought that if you don't give the enemy content they will go away is a foolish one, they'll create the content and you don't want to be on the recieving end of an alliance failcascade.
when alliance mates see the leaders back off and make comments like "deny them content" this leads to a very bad place for an alliance. it isn't long before corps begin to worry about their assets and is this alliance capable of protecting them.
then begins the failcascade.
I've seen this happen to a couple of alliances.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#242 - 2015-04-09 08:29:35 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Now they have to pick it up, dust themselves down, and get back in the game if they have the stomach. And if they don't have the stomach, well, they wouldn't have been worth "leaving alone" anyway.


I'm pretty sure the bigger question is, why would anyone want to actually play the sov game, at least in its present incarnation? It's crooked, but its the only game in town? It is literally un-winnable for a new participating entity, and you'd have to be foolish to consider otherwise.

Nawh. Brave succeeded in their mission statement to an extraordinary degree when they were young, and in Barleguet. Fun was indeed maximized per hour, for literally everyone that came into contact with that system. They did exactly what they set out to do. The moment they left an environment where success was possible, especially considering that success has a much more rigid definition in the sov game, its not surprising what happened.


agreed, brave or any other alliance that tries to take and hold sov should be proud of what they achieve. recent history should be looked at as a speed bump. withdraw,,, regroup,,, rebuild,,, see where you went wrong and try not to repeat those mistakes.
but don't let it end the dream. we all get knocked back a few steps now and then, it's all about picking yourself up, saying right,, feck this and getting on with it.
having said that, all empires rise and fall, some fall and never recover, others recover as a much smaller alliance while some learn from it and become much more powerful.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#243 - 2015-04-09 09:36:55 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Now they have to pick it up, dust themselves down, and get back in the game if they have the stomach. And if they don't have the stomach, well, they wouldn't have been worth "leaving alone" anyway.


I'm pretty sure the bigger question is, why would anyone want to actually play the sov game, at least in its present incarnation? It's crooked, but its the only game in town? It is literally un-winnable for a new participating entity, and you'd have to be foolish to consider otherwise.

Nawh. Brave succeeded in their mission statement to an extraordinary degree when they were young, and in Barleguet. Fun was indeed maximized per hour, for literally everyone that came into contact with that system. They did exactly what they set out to do. The moment they left an environment where success was possible, especially considering that success has a much more rigid definition in the sov game, its not surprising what happened.


agreed, brave or any other alliance that tries to take and hold sov should be proud of what they achieve. recent history should be looked at as a speed bump. withdraw,,, regroup,,, rebuild,,, see where you went wrong and try not to repeat those mistakes.
but don't let it end the dream. we all get knocked back a few steps now and then, it's all about picking yourself up, saying right,, feck this and getting on with it.
having said that, all empires rise and fall, some fall and never recover, others recover as a much smaller alliance while some learn from it and become much more powerful.




I don't personaly know any of Brave directors but things show that Brave top management was never ready to succesfully manage their massive membership and furthermore play politics in null sec sov.

Instead of settle any npc region - Stain, G. Wildlands, Outer Rings, Aridia, Syndicate, Solitude and have a lot of content without big politics, they overestimated and decided to pick prob one of the most iconic areas Catch with HED & GE.

They should be expected some big fishes start to showing interests. In the end they faced with Killer Whales the most well organised cdredf group of existens.

The result of such impact should be predicted. There are some pretty honest comments from Brave on PL's dreddit manifest which confirmed Brave gave up.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Sofanaut
Doomheim
#244 - 2015-04-09 09:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sofanaut
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
So now, as someone who is still new to the game


Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
I believe if they nail the changes to null-sec, and they probably will, and make sure every player has a chance to get out of high-sec and get closer to null-sec, those numbers you are all discussing will keep rising, a lot.


lol

Another fake 'newbro' comes out of the woodwork to opine on things a genuinely new player would know little to nothing about.

You and people like you have got it all wrong. CCP says players who stay in high sec/NPC corps "leveing their Raven" are most likely to quit the game, and you think moving those players into nullsec player corps is the miracle cure for CCP's subscription numbers.

Nope. Those players are 100% risk averse PvE carebears with no interest in moving to dangerous space where their blingfit mission ships can easily get exploded. For them, leveling their Raven in relative safety IS the game, and once they've completed the PvE content their game is done. They have no interest in 'good fights' or the sov meta. Once they've gotten bored with PvE in New Eden they'll go back to farming rep with their night elf hunter.

I'm not criticising those players. That's just the way they choose to play games, and there's nothing wrong with it. But funneling people like them into player corps is not going to provide a significant boost to CCP's revenue, unless CCP makes significant improvements to the state of PvE in EVE Online.

Biomassing in 3...2...1...
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#245 - 2015-04-09 09:57:09 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:

Instead of settle any npc region - Stain, G. Wildlands, Outer Rings, Aridia, Syndicate, Solitude and have a lot of content without big politics, they overestimated and decided to pick prob one of the most iconic areas Catch with HED & GE.


Those regions would have trouble supporting the population of Brave, content and income wise. If you want to grow the sandbox, NPC null and lowsec have to be re-engineered to be able to support new groups, or at least tweaked. It's EvE Online, not Sov Online; groups should not be forced to 'grow up' or 'grow into' to sov null.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
#246 - 2015-04-09 10:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivarr Kerensky
Sofanaut wrote:
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
So now, as someone who is still new to the game


Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
I believe if they nail the changes to null-sec, and they probably will, and make sure every player has a chance to get out of high-sec and get closer to null-sec, those numbers you are all discussing will keep rising, a lot.


lol

Another fake 'newbro' comes out of the woodwork to opine on things a genuinely new player would know little to nothing about.

You and people like you have got it all wrong. CCP says players who stay in high sec/NPC corps "leveing their Raven" are most likely to quit the game, and you think moving those players into nullsec player corps is the miracle cure for CCP's subscription numbers.

Nope. Those players are 100% risk averse PvE carebears with no interest in moving to dangerous space where their blingfit mission ships can easily get exploded. For them, leveling their Raven in relative safety IS the game, and once they've completed the PvE content their game is done. They have no interest in 'good fights' or the sov meta. Once they've gotten bored with PvE in New Eden they'll go back to farming rep with their night elf hunter.

I'm not criticising those players. That's just the way they choose to play games, and there's nothing wrong with it. But funneling people like them into player corps is not going to provide a significant boost to CCP's revenue, unless CCP makes significant improvements to the state of PvE in EVE Online.



The player pool for a game like EVE has always been small, it's a niche game after all. CCP trying to attract people from outside that pool really doesn't work because the game just doesn't cater for them and unless they completely overhaul the mechanics and ideas behind it, it never will. Those players will never be content creators, they will never really interact with others in a meaningful way (sandbox wise). They will play their version of the game and then move on to the next shiny grind hype. There's nothing wrong with that as such, it's just that EVE doesn't benefit from players like that.

Having said that, the lower PCU isn't a result from the "carebears" (for lack of a better word) leaving, they come and and go all the time. It's probably from invested players consolidating their accounts because of choices they made and (a lack of) changes to the game.

Excellence is an attitude.
Ito Eto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#247 - 2015-04-09 11:17:49 UTC
Sofanaut wrote:
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
So now, as someone who is still new to the game


Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
I believe if they nail the changes to null-sec, and they probably will, and make sure every player has a chance to get out of high-sec and get closer to null-sec, those numbers you are all discussing will keep rising, a lot.


lol

Another fake 'newbro' comes out of the woodwork to opine on things a genuinely new player would know little to nothing about.

You and people like you have got it all wrong. CCP says players who stay in high sec/NPC corps "leveing their Raven" are most likely to quit the game, and you think moving those players into nullsec player corps is the miracle cure for CCP's subscription numbers.

Nope. Those players are 100% risk averse PvE carebears with no interest in moving to dangerous space where their blingfit mission ships can easily get exploded. For them, leveling their Raven in relative safety IS the game, and once they've completed the PvE content their game is done. They have no interest in 'good fights' or the sov meta. Once they've gotten bored with PvE in New Eden they'll go back to farming rep with their night elf hunter.

I'm not criticising those players. That's just the way they choose to play games, and there's nothing wrong with it. But funneling people like them into player corps is not going to provide a significant boost to CCP's revenue, unless CCP makes significant improvements to the state of PvE in EVE Online.


Not criticizing? Well I guess about 2 insults per sentence doesn't count....and people wonder why EvE is hemorrhaging subs with positive role models like this in the game.

"Themepark" "Sandbox", these do not mean what you think they mean, EvE is as on rails as a freight train, and has as many attractions as Disneyland, but soundbites are easy, thinking is not.
Sofanaut
Doomheim
#248 - 2015-04-09 11:38:32 UTC
The only possible 'insult' in my post is the use of the word 'carebear', the rest is simply a description of a particular type of player, the type that usually quits because EVE is not the game for them. If you honestly felt insulted then perhaps you are that kind of player, but as I said before, there's nothing wrong with that.

Biomassing in 3...2...1...
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#249 - 2015-04-09 11:45:24 UTC
Sofanaut wrote:
The only possible 'insult' in my post is the use of the word 'carebear', the rest is simply a description of a particular type of player, the type that usually quits because EVE is not the game for them. If you honestly felt insulted then perhaps you are that kind of player, but as I said before, there's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, simply moving carebears to null doesn't change them being carebears,
but there is a chance for them to turn into (equally worthless) fleetbears, at least.

And that would prolong their sub. Alternatively, people could be pushed into RvB,
because they have quite a lot of worthless fleetbears too. Or EVEUNI.
Or BRAVE ... wait, does BRAVE still exist?

Where's my post where I rant about
carebears hiding behind groups?


So I guess there is some sense in trying to push them to nullsec,
although it most likely could be achieved with some of the highsec equivalents of a big group.


What it won't change, though, is the amount of whining, crying and demanding....
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jenshae Chiroptera
#250 - 2015-04-09 11:59:14 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Now they have to pick it up, dust themselves down, and get back in the game if they have the stomach. And if they don't have the stomach, well, they wouldn't have been worth "leaving alone" anyway.
I'm pretty sure the bigger question is, why would anyone want to actually play the sov game, at least in its present incarnation? It's crooked, but its the only game in town? It is literally un-winnable for a new participating entity, and you'd have to be foolish to consider otherwise.
I have seen a 40 member corp almost take a system from a 1500 member alliance accidentally. They didn't even want the SOV just to keep griefing to get kills.

If you follow the news, one of SOLAR's stations were recaptured by a small group.

Then the entire Null Sec population is only around 10% of the entire population. So, if you find a way to convince people from High Sec to form up, actually fly a doctrine and build some ships, they can grab systems by force and hold them.

Fear and deception is all that is protecting Null Sec right now.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kharaxus
Eve Academy Corporation
#251 - 2015-04-09 13:48:01 UTC
Before I read the whole thing I just have to say:

#1 Hardware + software = Eve Online - not somebody else's opinion no matter how/why they interpret anything, or who's friends with who.

#2 Rookie chat has NEVER been a reliable source of info - first time I found NPC chat I was told DONT rely on info in Rookie chat EVER!!
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#252 - 2015-04-09 13:49:51 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Now they have to pick it up, dust themselves down, and get back in the game if they have the stomach. And if they don't have the stomach, well, they wouldn't have been worth "leaving alone" anyway.
I'm pretty sure the bigger question is, why would anyone want to actually play the sov game, at least in its present incarnation? It's crooked, but its the only game in town? It is literally un-winnable for a new participating entity, and you'd have to be foolish to consider otherwise.
I have seen a 40 member corp almost take a system from a 1500 member alliance accidentally. They didn't even want the SOV just to keep griefing to get kills.

If you follow the news, one of SOLAR's stations were recaptured by a small group.

Then the entire Null Sec population is only around 10% of the entire population. So, if you find a way to convince people from High Sec to form up, actually fly a doctrine and build some ships, they can grab systems by force and hold them.

Fear and deception is all that is protecting Null Sec right now.

40 men.... LOVE SQUAD?
I should talk to Ms. Vegas again...
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Anuri Suaraj
The Cylar Foundation
#253 - 2015-04-09 13:54:27 UTC
Sofanaut wrote:
The only possible 'insult' in my post is the use of the word 'carebear', the rest is simply a description of a particular type of player, the type that usually quits because EVE is not the game for them. If you honestly felt insulted then perhaps you are that kind of player, but as I said before, there's nothing wrong with that.


Right.

Some players are total care-bears because they don't want rush solo into null sec with their T1 frigate and get shot in the face by a horde of eight-gazillion skill points players riding a faction ship with a T2 fit.

Seriously, those care-bears should grow some balls and start dying as soon as possible.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#254 - 2015-04-09 13:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Eve Solecist wrote:
40 men.... LOVE SQUAD?
I should talk to Ms. Vegas again...
They are dead now. Beaten by play denial into joining the large alliance then crushed by carebear hugs.
Anuri Suaraj wrote:
Sofanaut wrote:
The only possible 'insult' in my post is the use of the word 'carebear', the rest is simply a description of a particular type of player, the type that usually quits because EVE is not the game for them. If you honestly felt insulted then perhaps you are that kind of player, but as I said before, there's nothing wrong with that.
Right.
Some players are total care-bears because they don't want rush solo into null sec with their T1 frigate and get shot in the face by a horde of eight-gazillion skill points players riding a faction ship with a T2 fit.

Seriously, those care-bears should grow some balls and start dying as soon as possible.
Have you see what is flown in missions and Incursions?

I have 5 million skill points in combat skills. The rest is in industry, leadership and manufacturing.
There is more than enough SP and ISK in High Sec to grab SOV if they break down their illusions, form up and plan properly.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#255 - 2015-04-09 13:57:19 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
40 men.... LOVE SQUAD?
I should talk to Ms. Vegas again...
They are dead now. Beaten by play denial into joining the large alliance then crushed by carebear hugs.

Oh.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jenshae Chiroptera
#256 - 2015-04-09 13:59:07 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Oh.
To clarify: Not Love Squad, never heard of them.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Anuri Suaraj
The Cylar Foundation
#257 - 2015-04-09 14:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Anuri Suaraj
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


Have you seen what is flown in missions and Incursions?

I have 5 million skill points in combat skills. The rest is in industry, leadership and manufacturing.
There is more than enough SP and ISK in High Sec to grab SOV if they break down their illusions, form up and plan properly.


Speaking on the behalf of the newer and less experienced players, I have to say that I was not duly informed that I'm actually supposed to "grab SOV".

In fact, I don't even know what an SOV is...
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#258 - 2015-04-09 14:20:18 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Oh.
To clarify: Not Love Squad, never heard of them.

Ah!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jenshae Chiroptera
#259 - 2015-04-09 14:21:46 UTC
Anuri Suaraj wrote:
Speaking on the behalf of the newer and less experienced players, I have to say that I was not duly informed that I'm actually supposed to "grab SOV".
In fact, I don't even know what an SOV is...
You do not have to take SOV. (Sovereignty over Null Sec aka zero security space).
What I am saying is that it is possible. If you have a group and you all train into specific roles with a strong composition then you can go a long way in a very short time.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#260 - 2015-04-09 14:21:52 UTC
Anuri Suaraj wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


Have you seen what is flown in missions and Incursions?

I have 5 million skill points in combat skills. The rest is in industry, leadership and manufacturing.
There is more than enough SP and ISK in High Sec to grab SOV if they break down their illusions, form up and plan properly.


Speaking on the behalf of the newer and less experienced players, I have to say that I was not duly informed that I'm actually supposed to "grab SOV".

In fact, I don't even know what an SOV is...

Hey sweety .... wanna grab?
It's soooo sovt ....
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -