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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Noelt Daski
Euphoria Released
#561 - 2015-03-03 20:12:52 UTC
Brilliant, I like it.

Althought, I would recommand 8h zone instead of 4h.
Callic Veratar
#562 - 2015-03-03 20:13:17 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Bubble immune 2-second align 250km locking 10mn MWD interceptors really are the bane of this new sov model.


Except they won't be because a noobship can stop them from being effective.

Maybe I shouldn't have trained Sarcasm V. People are really having a hard time detecting it.
Virgil Armstrong
Sunrise Services
#563 - 2015-03-03 20:13:19 UTC
First reactions,

- Perhaps the prime time should be corp based on not alliance based. This way an alliance can spread out different activities for all its members across timezones. At least this way, whole alliances won't because timezone based. unless that is your intention, having smaller powerblocks.

- Increase primetime by 1 hour when set across downtime.

- I'm not seeing what the bonus levels 1-5 actually mean. When do you get industry level 5?
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#564 - 2015-03-03 20:14:54 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
I LOVE THIS, It's superb and eaven more hardcore that i have expected. Twisted

Great work! Blink


Just few things

1. Etosis link should be banned on interceptors and any ship that can use covet-ops cloaks.


To ensure to no abuse of this new module.

Beside that, i love all of it; and I am sure it will shape null sec a lot! Making Providence an one Imposible to conquer Fort Pirate

And KIlling all afk epires and bringing real, Skilled, completly out of hand, hard core pvp that every one allways wanted!!

Again great work :D I was claping at the screan like a rearded child while reading this dev blog. Lol


Why covert ops cloaks? Do you know how they work? You have to DROP cloak to get a lock.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Tiberian Deci
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#565 - 2015-03-03 20:15:00 UTC
Virgil Armstrong wrote:
First reactions,
- I'm not seeing what the bonus levels 1-5 actually mean. When do you get industry level 5?


The higher the indices (bonus levels), It takes longer to capture/hack/reinforce/verb the structure.
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#566 - 2015-03-03 20:15:07 UTC
Fozzie, instead of typing out all of that, you could have just said:

"You'll be playing a game of point domination with a repainted HIC infinipoint. Oh, and we really liked that prime time vulnerability window from DUST - you get that too. And make sure you mine all that veld!"

I was expecting something more radical TBH, considering all the hype, but i guess you really don't need anything more complicated than that. Looks solid.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#567 - 2015-03-03 20:15:54 UTC
For everyone asking about a reason to fight or why, this blog is mearly about how you will fight. I assume, why, and what benifit will be something else entirely. As i said a few pages back, CCP must address the income of null and make it so that large alliances will be willing to reduce space because they can get all they need in a single constalation or region, and the line men can easily make the money they need without hs alts. I assume, thats coming.. but should be part of phase 2. Makes em wonder what phase 3 is, i would of thought this income fix would be phase 2, but whatever.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Total Newbie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#568 - 2015-03-03 20:16:20 UTC
JustSharkbait wrote:
Overall, I am excited by this proposal. I think it is a step in the right direction. However, the immediate point of concern i see is the prime time feature. I like it for what it is, but am concerned on how that will effect the many alliances that have multiple timezones. It seems like only one TZ will get to have all the fun defensively.

The only overall concern i have is just to actually make having the SOV worth it as right now even taking away structure grinding does not add any great desire to have space. Alliance level money still comes from moons and renters so how will this help change that?



It won't. It's another myopic attempt by CCP to pacify new players and high sec bears.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#569 - 2015-03-03 20:16:30 UTC
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
I LOVE THIS, It's superb and eaven more hardcore that i have expected. Twisted

Great work! Blink


Just few things

1. Etosis link should be banned on interceptors and any ship that can use covet-ops cloaks.


To ensure to no abuse of this new module.

Beside that, i love all of it; and I am sure it will shape null sec a lot! Making Providence an one Imposible to conquer Fort Pirate

And KIlling all afk epires and bringing real, Skilled, completly out of hand, hard core pvp that every one allways wanted!!

Again great work :D I was claping at the screan like a rearded child while reading this dev blog. Lol


Why covert ops cloaks? Do you know how they work? You have to DROP cloak to get a lock.

His issue is that covops cloaked ships are too hard to catch before they get to where they are going. This is only partially true, however.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Pavlakakos
W.A.S.P
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#570 - 2015-03-03 20:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pavlakakos
Will have to go thru the blog again 2-3 times.....

However, some first comments....

1. Vulnerability timer: Should be reduced greatly and only executor corp can see the timer. 4 hour period is a long time. Make it 15 minutes. If the attacker is really willing to contest the system, he should work for it, trying the Entosis on different TZ's.

2. System indexes: Definitely need to be increased. A system with strategic 5 and military 5 is only at 2.75, which is definitely too low for the current owner.

3. Industry Index: Suppose system X has an ice belt and system Z right next to it has none. Does not to be Einstein that noone will be mining on Z, since all the boosts will be on X. Also, a top end mackinaw can mine 2.000 m3 of ice in 45 secs, but the same shipe need ~89 secs (with perfect skills, implants, etc.) to get ~1.900 m3 of ore, so ice has clearly an advantage over the industry index.

Since mining, moon mining, POS manufacturing and station manufacturing, PI and research are all aspects of industry, they should be taken under consideration when calculating indy index (poor coders Big smile ).
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc
#571 - 2015-03-03 20:18:12 UTC
Sarel Hendar wrote:
Interesting changes. Some good, some less so...

Arrow Freeport idea is good. Discourages not showing up for second reinforce battle as is currently in vogue.

Arrow Is there any sane reason to have Infomorph Psychology as controlling skill for the entosis module? We have a perfectly good and logical skill that could be applied here: Hacking.

Arrow I'd recommend restrictions on entosis module so that it can't be fitted into frigate- or destroyer-class hulls. Otherwise we'll have troll-fitted T3 Destroyers or Interceptors that'll be MWD-orbitting at 200 kilometers and nearly impossible to stop or hit.

Arrow Idea: In a twist to command nodes, you could have in addition to normal ones "variant" command nodes that have to be probed out and capturing which is worth slightly more than "regular" command nodes (eg. something like 1.1-1.3 "regular" ones). Nothing overwhelming, just some edge to the side willing/able to have a combat prober in fleet...

Arrow Timezone segmentation could be problematic. Needs thinking about.

Arrow ECM interactions with entosis will need thinking about. 200-Falcon troll fleets aren't fun for anyone.

Arrow Capital- and Supercapital roles will need thinking about.


valid concerns & good suggestions. bump!
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#572 - 2015-03-03 20:18:18 UTC
Nof Nof wrote:
Lots of gsf tears on this thread. Can certainly understand why high level players would be upset as they have put in a lot of work and meta gaming to get where they are. My personal views on this change:

What's the incentive?

The incentive is for players to actually think for themselves and increase content. I dunno perhaps maybe control an r64 of their own? Perhaps get actual fights instead of blobbing with a safety net of supers?

I was a member of an alliance and you guys literally spent 8 weeks camping us so you could possibly get 1 super kill. Doesn't sound like there is much content for your membership under the blue doughnut regime. The current mechanics provides no incentive for anyone to move in to null sec.Do you call chasing timers and fighting for OTHER People's moons and isk content? Maybe for peons who want eve spoon fed to them sure. Not to mention the vast blue balling and arrogant nature of care bears who pay for a protection racket and sit in station and wait for their masters to come save them. Sure there is plenty of incentive for players to try null sec.

The incentive for living in null sec (under the proposed changes) iis a better game experience plain and simple.

The argument of: increasing system value to support more player.

the whole point of these changes are to spread people out and make.your blobs less viable. You wanna control so much space? Kudos to you but now you gotta spread your members out to do it. I know you would love to create impenetrable systems to sit and grind in your supers all day with no risk... but ya CCP and the player base already saw that coming.

for what it'd worth your leaders won the game, everyone recognizes it but in doing so it also destroyed the attraction and viability to garner new players and keep active players engaged. You will still be powerful and rich and who knows it may even make you better since your f1 monkeys will have to learn.


I agree that simultaneously with the changes that their should be 1 incentive to move to null sec. That incentive would be to greatly reduce income potential in hi sec.


I was in agreement with you until that last paragraph. Why does high sec have to suffer for null to grow? If null is an attractive enough proposition on its own merits then players will come. Not everyone wants to play the great null game. Attempting to force players out of high sec by effectively making it a low income potential newbie tutorial zone (as has been frequently suggested in the past) will only succeed in forcing a lot of people to just give up and leave the game. That's a bad idea for Eve in general and for CCP's revenue in particular/
Green Medics
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#573 - 2015-03-03 20:18:23 UTC
since we are going to start talking about mixing industry index with sov activity can PI have some kind of effect on the industry index?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#574 - 2015-03-03 20:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Brilliant, love it. ****'s gonna burn.
Memphis Baas
#575 - 2015-03-03 20:18:37 UTC
Consider me a high-sec carebear, and feel free to treat my opinion as worthless, but what I'm seeing is:

1. Any roaming gang will entosis whatever they can while they roam, and eventually the defender's list of sov units that must be defended will include all of them. Turning the 4 hours "prime time" into "mandatory home defense time for 4 hours." You're presenting the dev blog from the point of view of one attacker and one defender, when in reality it's more like posting something controversial in General Discussion and then having to defend your views against the entire playerbase. I wonder how fun it will be having to counter-entosis all the potshots, every day.

2. Eventually, the system will be: If you want to mine, PVE, or go roaming in enemy space, you must do it at non-prime hours, because prime time is for home defense (and besides, enemy isn't vulnerable in your prime anyway). This does give pilots from other time zones something to do.

3. Bye bye capitals.
Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#576 - 2015-03-03 20:18:48 UTC
Querns wrote:
Dradis Aulmais wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
I LOVE THIS, It's superb and eaven more hardcore that i have expected. Twisted

Great work! Blink


Just few things

1. Etosis link should be banned on interceptors and any ship that can use covet-ops cloaks.


To ensure to no abuse of this new module.

Beside that, i love all of it; and I am sure it will shape null sec a lot! Making Providence an one Imposible to conquer Fort Pirate

And KIlling all afk epires and bringing real, Skilled, completly out of hand, hard core pvp that every one allways wanted!!

Again great work :D I was claping at the screan like a rearded child while reading this dev blog. Lol


Why covert ops cloaks? Do you know how they work? You have to DROP cloak to get a lock.

His issue is that covops cloaked ships are too hard to catch before they get to where they are going. This is only partially true, however.


You can also blap a covops whose only defense is speed.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#577 - 2015-03-03 20:19:18 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.


ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#578 - 2015-03-03 20:21:09 UTC
Tiberian Deci wrote:
Kaliba Mort wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
If i held sov and someone brought in a carrier i'd be undocking dreads and hics.... forcing them to escalate further.


Why? You can hold a carrier with a noob ship and a point. You can kill it with 20 interceptors.

https://zkillboard.com/kills/capitals/

Maybe CCP should just scrap this and go back to POS warfare. At least those required *effort* to both attack and defend and there were strategies involved, like kitting RF timers. You know, it was actually fun.



Not sure if serious or just stupid...


Stupid I think. Assuming they could break an archons tank and kill they drones before they killed the inties we're not talking about 20 inties vs 1 ship. This is fleet combat. If you can only bring one ship to the fight to hold your sov well you shouldn't have had it in the first place.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#579 - 2015-03-03 20:21:21 UTC
Green Medics wrote:
since we are going to start talking about mixing industry index with sov activity can PI have some kind of effect on the industry index?

Another good suggestion for industrial index.

To reiterate:

ArrowIndustrial index as a function of mining only discounts a significant portion of Occupancy activities that should meaningfully be derived into defense. Allow manufacturing, research, POS reactors, PI, and exploration mini-games to increase a system's industrial index in addition to mining.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Thoirdhealbhach
Liga der hessischen Gentlemen
#580 - 2015-03-03 20:22:18 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
I'm really confused. So, if the defensive window is not during your availability you have nothing to do and if it is during your availability you can't do anything else.

So... living in nullsec means you spend all your time defending sov and that's it?



I don't think so, because Entosis links keep your from warping of AND you need to stay in target range to keep the timer running. So you don't need a point to fight an aggressor and at the same time the Entosis Link is high slot utility, so fitting it on your average PvE ship is not too big of a hassle. Even if you can't catch the lone interceptor in your PvE Ship, you still can stop the timer and wait for someone with smaller guns to kill the ceptor. And if the agressor is not only trolling, but bringing serious oomph, all the more reason to be happy and go fight.

But yeah, in order to keep SOV, you actually have to keep a certain amount of people around, willing to defend it. Same story as with POSes.