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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#521 - 2015-03-03 19:31:17 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
"A clear visual effect shows which ships are applying Entosis Links." Will this also be apparent from brackets? Most large fleet fights require zooming out considerably. Even zoomed in, visual identification would become near impossible if the ship carrying the link is buried in a fleet of 100 - unless we're gonna get that Hot Pink Pony skin effect that has been clamored for!

Just put a defensive link on it, fight the fleet battle then find the needle once the haystack is removed :)

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Pooptasticize
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#522 - 2015-03-03 19:32:49 UTC
The timezone thing sucks.

Instead of invulnerable outside that window, you should give a big defense bonus. 10x or something. So with a max-sov rating and that you get a 40x timer out of primetime or a 4x during.

This makes it possible, but very hard, to take sov outside that window.

Hilti Enaka
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#523 - 2015-03-03 19:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
TCU MARKET CRASH

Quote:
Future iterations on this system will add more structures that alliances can use to obtain new kinds of bonuses and effects in their space.
- hmmm thinking about a static Worm hole module with a exit into high sec.

Quote:
Neither DPS nor remote reps will be used for controlling station services in the new system.


\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/


Quote:
Sovereignty Blockade Units are not needed as part of this new system and will be phased out, leaving us with three key structures instead of four. The existing stock of SBUs and their blueprints will be removed, with compensation to their owners.


SBU MARKET CRASH

Quote:
This will determine the time period within which all Sovereignty structures belonging to that alliance are vulnerable to be reinforced, and the time period within which the exit time of all reinforcement periods for that alliance’s Sovereignty structures will be randomly selected. All Sovereignty structures belonging to the alliance will become vulnerable to be reinforced during that same four hour period every day, except for days when those structures are in the middle of a reinforcement period.
- I'll be setting out timezone to 1 1/2 hour before DT

Quote:
These Nodes have an equal chance to appear in any system in the constellation, regardless of who owns the Sovereignty in the other systems.
- feels like CCP would rather entities own constellations?
Volmyr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#524 - 2015-03-03 19:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Seriously CCP, I can't even words right now to disgust my measure.
Scud Maximillion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#525 - 2015-03-03 19:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Scud Maximillion
I see this one brought out all the crazies.

Firstly, good job CCP. Most people here don't realise that you are actually looking for feedback. They are way too busy defending the past. I think here you have some excellent mechanics. The multiple command spawn, and actually having to have people from the defending alliance at the battle, are two examples of great ideas.

Here are a few suggestions.

1. I get you on the primetime intent but I think you need a bit more. Consider linking primetime variation with occupancy sov levels (not strategic tho). So, if occupancy levels (ie. mining and ratting only) are nonexistent, it can be hit at any time and the resulting timer can occur at any time. As occupancy levels increase, the window for both narrows. At full levels you get the four hour window. This means capitals matter and alliances can focus themselves on important systems. It deals with 99% of the concerns people have with this mechanic. Occupancy is now important.

2. I think you really need to seriously buff the defensive bonus from occupancy. Strategic levels should be irrelevant, or largely so. You want people to see a benefit for their hard work. I think the current bonuses are far too low. Doing this will likely again eleimnate most of the concerns about frigs messing with people, and make alliances focus where it matters.

3. I think you need to introduce some incentives to alliances making the system work. This is what people are calling buff nullsec. Give them some bigger mining/ratting/whatever bonuses to systems which they are prepared to put in the effort to raise the index. You have given them the stick, now provided the carrot

Again, good job. I hope my comments help work out issues with the planned mechanics.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
#526 - 2015-03-03 19:36:12 UTC
Sarel Hendar wrote:

Arrow Is there any sane reason to have Infomorph Psychology as controlling skill for the entosis module? We have a perfectly good and logical skill that could be applied here: Hacking.


Actually a good point


Sarel Hendar wrote:

Arrow I'd recommend restrictions on entosis module so that it can't be fitted into frigate- or destroyer-class hulls. Otherwise we'll have troll-fitted T3 Destroyers or Interceptors that'll be MWD-orbitting at 200 kilometers and nearly impossible to stop or hit.


People that can't catch a fast ship have no business holding sov, and it requires a lock anyway so damps/ECM work.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#527 - 2015-03-03 19:36:52 UTC
Well, It's.. different.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#528 - 2015-03-03 19:38:18 UTC
Now i just want to see what changes you guys will be doing to the null sec economics to make it more viabale and benifical to own fewer systems. Unless thats phase 3? then i'd say that should be phase 2.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#529 - 2015-03-03 19:38:34 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
"A clear visual effect shows which ships are applying Entosis Links." Will this also be apparent from brackets? Most large fleet fights require zooming out considerably. Even zoomed in, visual identification would become near impossible if the ship carrying the link is buried in a fleet of 100 - unless we're gonna get that Hot Pink Pony skin effect that has been clamored for!

Just put a defensive link on it, fight the fleet battle then find the needle once the haystack is removed :)


I'd like to not burn my haystacks down, thank you very much. lol
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#530 - 2015-03-03 19:41:17 UTC
Scud Maximillion wrote:


1. I get you on the primetime intent but I think you need a bit more. Consider linking primetime variation with occupancy sov levels (not strategic tho). So, if occupancy levels (ie. mining and ratting only) are nonexistent, it can be hit at any time and the resulting timer can occur at any time. As occupancy levels increase, the window for both narrows. At full levels you get the four hour window. This means capitals matter and alliances can focus themselves on important systems. It deals with 99% of the concerns people have with this mechanic. Occupancy is now important.


I like this.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#531 - 2015-03-03 19:42:32 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
People that can't catch a fast ship have no business holding sov, and it requires a lock anyway so damps/ECM work.

people who won't commit to a fight in any way have no business contesting sov
yogizh
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#532 - 2015-03-03 19:42:42 UTC
This was exactly what I have expected. Bad change that will be presented along the applause from empire masses that won't ever go into sov anyway, while leaving us "nullbears" with mouths wide opened and jaws dropped.

Sometimes it would be nice to get some vision along with the presented changes. Is this a plan to create some weird FW area with no extra advantages at all ? What is the point of this ? So far the only advantage of having sov is:

a) tower fuel alliance bonus
b) ability to build supers

So far we saw: making jumpdrives close to useless, making JBs useless, no announced changes to very limited resources that a nullsec sov solar system offers (pathetic mining, very limited anomalies), messing up the refineries, rendering salvage useless (time x effort is hilarious with fully skilled noctis with t2 salvagers) and so on. I don't expect people from empire to understand this, regardless their mindless flapping and cheering (you showed us this time Roll ).

Personally I see this progress (?) towards greater chaos that will generate random battles of unorganized small groups for some time before we all realize that lowsec should be the place for this kind of thing, small entities have nothing to gain by holding sov compared to staging in NPC null or lowsec, where they can use agents and have all their members comfortably packed in one station making them sweet sweet LPs.

I realize there will be tweaks to this (June is months away now), but this concept won't make nullsec system ownership more desirable. The effort fending off various trolls attacking systems, capturing those anoms, upgrading systems (good luck with freighter convoys small alliances).

Instead of giving the players something to look forward to, your are opening Pandoras box full of big nasty surprises. Remember the last one ? With the jumpdrives ? Coalitions still work, renting is still a thing, no new entities entered nullsec sov. Only fools and people who don't know much about sov can be happy about this.

Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#533 - 2015-03-03 19:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
I like everything about this blog apart from the random spawning of capture nodes. I think the randomness detracts from the sense of strategic planning on the part of defending alliances.

I suggest the following alternative:
ArrowAlliances setting up sov structures must set up control nodes when setting up the sov structure.
ArrowEach sov structure must have a minimum of 3 control nodes linked with it before it has any effect.
ArrowThose control nodes will be inert and invulnerable until the capture event for that sov structure takes place.
ArrowAttackers must capture AND HOLD the majority of these nodes in order to capture the sov structure they are linked with.
ArrowDefenders may choose to place many nodes to make the attackers job more difficult...
ArrowOr they may choose to only place 3 to make them easier to defend
ArrowThe nodes self-destruct if the attackers capture the relevant sov structure or become invulnerable again if defenders win

Also, the "prime time vulnerability" thing is a terrible idea. Not only does it discourage alliances from recruiting corps across multiple timezones, it doesn't seem remotely realistic.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#534 - 2015-03-03 19:47:34 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
we have to create a strategic mining division to protect important systems are you ******* kidding me

nullsec mining has been broken for ages, go look at the price of mega and zyd and then think about why on earth mining should play a role here


So, because some people choose to work within a broken system to get an advantage over you, you are mad?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Hugh Coloure
Metaphysico Cosmolonigology
Goonswarm Federation
#535 - 2015-03-03 19:48:54 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Total Newbie wrote:
Uh huh. Pretty graphs say whatever they want to say. Doesn't make them true. I live in null, and I just disagree there are more players here..... If there were, in fact, more players in null, road trips wouldn't be a necessity.

Anecdotal evidence versus actual statistical evidence...nice


Also read the damn devblog, it explains why some areas of null have been quieter whilst there's been an overall increase across the whole game outside of your anecdotal situation.


Link

People logging in is in a strong downward trend. The graphs you are pointing at lack a y-axis, they are impossible to interpret the scale of those changes without it.
Callic Veratar
#536 - 2015-03-03 19:49:05 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
I'm really confused. So, if the defensive window is not during your availability you have nothing to do and if it is during your availability you can't do anything else.

So... living in nullsec means you spend all your time defending sov and that's it?


Unbelievable Shocked

Your place seems to be the highsec dude ...

Oh totally, pointing out that some pilots have been arguing that the only thing to do is defend when in the timezone and there's nothing to do if they're not in the timezone must clearly define my activities, alts, and understanding of the game.

If you're going to make an argument don't just spew garbage that is literally untrue. There's tons of stuff to do in all space and it's not always available in all time zones. I don't like the fixed time zone thing, which is why I suggested a more flexible option but sure, I can be dismissed out of hand too.
Kossaw
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#537 - 2015-03-03 19:49:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kossaw
Overall theres some really good ideas in here. Especially freeporting stations. Some things appear strange though ...


  • It seems odd that the reinforcement window applies to the first attack on a structure as well as on the subsequent reinforcement timer. Surely it makes more sense that the first attack to put the structure into reinforced can happen at ANY time, but the structure only comes out of reinforced at a time decided by the defender ie. the same way it works now.

  • Since capture the flag points appear constellation wide, it makes more sense for the reinforcement window to be set for a constellation rather than the entire alliance

WTB : An image in my signature

Tatsuj Khan
POS Party
Ember Sands
#538 - 2015-03-03 19:50:18 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
Altrue wrote:
The bad stuff:
[list]
  • Yay! Brave Collective will pick an US timezone and thanks to your new system, ensure that EU and AU get no chances to defend their space EVER. At least, with the current system we had the opportunity to actively prevent the first attack...Ugh Now all is left is the defense of station services, very exciting.

  • Or maybe Brave could split into multiple alliances for differing timezones that are loosely affiliated in a coalition but are much more independent and locally operated. And then maybe once in awhile those alliances might get bored and actually fight each other instead of blue-ing up half the map, or draw conflict from smaller groups that want to take on, say, only AU Brave but not the entirety of US/EU/AU Brave.

    Which, I think, was kind of the point. It's supposed to encourage these massive blocs to break up into smaller, localized units with people that actually PLAY TOGETHER in similar timezones, in space, with each other. Not just in name only.


    This.

    One of the best reasons for the change I've seen so far. Diversification, and get more players involved at a higher level such as leading and building rather than following the big blue blob around.

    Winter Archipelago
    Autumn Industrial Enterprises
    #539 - 2015-03-03 19:51:53 UTC
    For those griping over the 250km range on the T2 mod, remember that you have to maintain a lock on the structure. You aren't going to get your 12km / sec Svipul or any Interceptor with that type of lock range. Those fast ships will have to be significantly closer, where that high speed of theirs is less useful (and they may not even be able to reach their max speed).

    A Rapier's webs easily hit 40km. 52km overheated. Overheated Lachesis scrams reach 21km.

    The further you get from the structure, the larger (and slower) the ship you'll have to use. Sure, you can add range-improving mods to a smaller ship, but then you're sacrificing the ability to reach and maintain high speeds.
    Kaliba Mort
    Dark-Rising
    Wrecking Machine.
    #540 - 2015-03-03 19:52:06 UTC
    KC Kamikaze wrote:
    If i held sov and someone brought in a carrier i'd be undocking dreads and hics.... forcing them to escalate further.


    Why? You can hold a carrier with a noob ship and a point. You can kill it with 20 interceptors.

    https://zkillboard.com/kills/capitals/

    Maybe CCP should just scrap this and go back to POS warfare. At least those required *effort* to both attack and defend and there were strategies involved, like kitting RF timers. You know, it was actually fun.