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The destruction of an ice mining corporation
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#41 - 2015-03-01 06:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nasar Vyron
Basically what you have here is a misinterpretation of the underlying problem: Too many players in high sec.

They hide there with the excuse of not liking pvp, null sec being too scary, the big coalitions will destroy them, their friends are in high sec - the list goes on - just to avoid moving out to WH space or null as would be natural progression for any player in the past.

But who can blame them, once the fighter nerf goes through, due to the decrease in value of deadspace mods (thank you Rhea) you can literally make more money in high sec incursions than most null activities. But thanksfully WH space still makes more (thank god, more risk deserves more reward)

The problem we have here is CCP failing us in giving their players a reason to leave high security space. Simple enough.



PS - don't complain about your baby ice belts in empire space, grow a pair and move to null. You don't have to be a master of all doctrine ships to contribute and be accepted into a null alliance, bring your friends!
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-03-01 07:41:08 UTC
Mine Scordite, Plag, even Veld, OP.

15 mill an hr in a Skiff, mining Scordite is what I average. Even if you had unlimited Ice you wouldn't make that.
Serene Repose
#43 - 2015-03-01 10:45:05 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Musashi IV wrote:
I used to have a 3 account ice mining corporation. It took many months and mil of isk to train 2 Mac and an Orca for ice mining.
I could log in anytime during the day and mine my quota of ice. Now I cant even fill one mining ship let alone an Orca before the ice is depleted!! If I dont log on withen an hour of server startup I prob wont get any Ice for the day. Even if they triple the size of an ice field thier are so many ships the ice would be gone withen an hour. If I had the time I could check every hour for ice but like many players I do not have the time to play the game 24/7. Ive had to cancel 2 of my accounts because I cant make enouph isk to make them worth while. Many of you may think this sounds boring. If all I did was ice mine you would be correct. With the isk I make from ice mining I am able to do anything I wanted over the years. Now Im just about to close down my last account. CCP you need to bring back permanant ice fields or at least respawn an ice asteriod in a different location when one is depleted.



So jump into a catalyst and go pop some mining ships!
Yeah! Simple pleasures for simple minds!

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#44 - 2015-03-01 11:26:20 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Basically what you have here is a misinterpretation of the underlying problem: Too many players in high sec.

They hide there with the excuse of not liking pvp, null sec being too scary, the big coalitions will destroy them, their friends are in high sec - the list goes on - just to avoid moving out to WH space or null as would be natural progression for any player in the past.


I've been living in Providence long enough to assure you ice camping there is even worse. At least you don't get rorqualdrops and insta-20-hulks on your ice in hisec. What would you say next, too many people in Providence is the problem?

Nasar Vyron wrote:
But who can blame them, once the fighter nerf goes through, due to the decrease in value of deadspace mods (thank you Rhea) you can literally make more money in high sec incursions than most null activities. But thanksfully WH space still makes more (thank god, more risk deserves more reward)

The problem we have here is CCP failing us in giving their players a reason to leave high security space. Simple enough.

Of course, the old stupid argument that every hisec player instantly jumps into incursions to get spacerich. Because concord LP are not devaluable, and payouts per face almost reach a bounty tick of ratting Afktar. Not to mention extremely low availability and extremely high screwability of incursion running.
At least you don't cry about L4 like goonies, then again, L4 were already screwed, mining were screwed, and trading is getting screwed by series of suicide wanking buffs and industrial nerfs, and POCOs screwed hisec PI. Odyssey also screwed hisec exploration, and since half hisec escalations lead to lowsec and forbidden for T3s, hisec complex running is also dulled.

Right now, I must say hisec is in shape so bad that goonies who cried about it in fear must be happy now. There is nothing you can do in there to avoid getting broke.

Nasar Vyron wrote:
PS - don't complain about your baby ice belts in empire space, grow a pair and move to null. You don't have to be a master of all doctrine ships to contribute and be accepted into a null alliance, bring your friends!

You have to wag your tail and be obedient pet to be accepted, this has always been the truth.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#45 - 2015-03-01 12:13:52 UTC
Musashi IV wrote:
If I could play EVE 24/7 I would not be complaining. I only have the time to play a few hours each day. Ive found out ice mining used to be the quickest way to make isk.

So you use your very limited free time to play the most boring minigame in all of gaming?

Evil RatKid
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#46 - 2015-03-01 12:14:57 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Musashi IV wrote:
If I could play EVE 24/7 I would not be complaining. I only have the time to play a few hours each day. Ive found out ice mining used to be the quickest way to make isk.

So you use your very limited free time to play the most boring minigame in all of gaming?

You mean combat pvp?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-03-01 14:07:51 UTC
Please post more success stories of CCP bringing down the appeal of botting.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#48 - 2015-03-01 14:47:08 UTC
@OP

Find yourself a more quiet system with less competition. Highsec islands tend to have far less people around.
Use courier contracts (e.g. RedFrog) to get your equipment out there, if you are afraid, to haul it on your own.

Your Orca is giving you a higher boost on ore mining, than on ice mining. I don't know the exact numbers right now, but fully skilled i think it was around 48% max boost for ice and 70% for ore. This and the price drop of ice would make it equally, if not even more profitable, to mine ore instead of ice. Ore asteroids are a lot smaller in size of course, so you'd have to switch targets more often, which is more work, than ice mining. But, on the other hand, you don't have to wait 4 hours for ore to spawn.

(And, of course, there is always the option to go to Low / Null.)

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Wraith Soulsark
New Eden Unified Forces
#49 - 2015-03-01 15:07:10 UTC
Laura Gosh wrote:
Musashi IV wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Unlike asteroids, ice belts reform in 4 hours. You want them to be permanent because you can't be bothered to diversify your source of income?

Sounds like a great reason to me.




If I could play EVE 24/7 I would not be complaining. I only have the time to play a few hours each day. Ive found out ice mining
used to be the quickest way to make isk.



In that case.. move to a system with ice (which i'm guessing you already have done)
and PRIMARILY hit the normal ore belts for ISK... then.. if you see the icebelt on probe scanner.. GOGOGOGOG ICE RUSH (like everyone else does)

Yes.. the ice will despawn very quickly because everyone wants to mine it.. (hence why its called an ice RUSH).. but the ore belts will remain there for you to mine after the belts are depleted



If you want to make money to pay for your accounts.. continue your mining.. but also consider the following

1: highsec PI -- choose a planet close to a tradehub and buy the ingredients for coolant (water + electrolytes 40x each manufacturing job) import them to the planet of your choice and create coolant.. export the coolant and resell at tradehub for profit (protip -- only use planets with 15% or lower taxation.. you can find the tax details on the information panel of the customs office of each planet -- sidenote: these may change on occasion.. and also another sidenote: -- check out the trade skills for a skill called 'Custom Office Expertise' this will reduce your NPC tax (max of 10%) by 10% each level (level 5 in this skill = 5% NPC tax + whatever the corporation owner of the customs office put on it)

2: Datacore farming
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Datacore_Farming

3: Research and Development of BPO's
Buy BPO's and make them PERFECT.. resell them for profit
This takes some skil and knowledge about what BPO's will be profitable and what are not, but the more your research the better

4: Moon mining -- only possible to do in 0.4 (YES 0.4.. it used to be 0.3 but you can do it in 0.4 now.. CCP changed the moons in 0.4 space some updates ago)


FYI -- I have 4 accounts (12 characters in total)
each of them is trained up for highsec PI, mining, datacore farmining and development of BPO's..
If i remember right.. i currently have 72 planets making various things
(this alone gives me an average of around 2-3 billion every 30 days)

datacore mining gives me around 800-900 million every 30 days

researching BPO's gives me around 4-5 billion every 30 days (sometimes more depending on the BPO's..)


and this is on top of my normal mining --- if i can do it.. why not you?


Unlike the normal herpa derp move to low sec move to null wh blah blah blah this was a very informative detailed and helpful post well done and thank you
Laura Gosh
Mantis Acquisitions
#50 - 2015-03-01 15:18:33 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
There is a solution to your woes... but frankly, with ice price going down, the last thing anybody needs are competitors. Nothing personal. Bear

BTW, some Amarran systems still have permanent, old fashioned ice belts. Demand and price are not the best but there you can mine at your heart's pleasure anytime, and for as long as you want.




Wait.... there are still permanent ice belts out there?

That's news to me -- care to fill me in on the details, what systems etc? just out of curiosity Shocked


Thanks o/
Laura Gosh
Mantis Acquisitions
#51 - 2015-03-01 15:23:09 UTC
Wraith Soulsark wrote:


Unlike the normal herpa derp move to low sec move to null wh blah blah blah this was a very informative detailed and helpful post well done and thank you



You're welcome Cool
Killian Trystan
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#52 - 2015-03-01 20:27:28 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
OP: If you're willing to move (possibly to a different region) you will be able to find ice fields that last longer. For example Everyshore Region has a great concentration of ice belts where it is easy to check nearby system for ice.

Every ice belt will have a pattern where you can anticipate the normal spawn time by day of the week - you don't have to hang around all the time.


I live in Everyshore, and it's full of bots that CCP doesn't give a damn about. To the point that there's at least 10 multiboxing fleets (probably more) that go out, every single day, and go through every single ice belt in the five systems in the upper-left corner of the Everyshore region... In maybe a few hours? No solo players get a chance.

Sucks when I don't have the reprocessing skills (or standings) to make lots of ISK from ore, whereas just selling plain blue ice makes a lot more.

And yes, I've tried reporting the bots, multiple times. Every time I see the bot fleets, I report each and every one of them. Even sent in a ticket to CCP, sent in a list of names and why they hadn't been banned because of their obvious ISBoxer/Macro botting. "Oh sorry, you should just report them as bots with the report as bot feature" *closes ticket*

So yeah.. CCP doesn't give a damn about botting.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#53 - 2015-03-01 20:27:43 UTC
Out of curiosity: How much bounty do you need to put on a, say, retriever pilot, to make it profitable to gank? How much for a Skiff? An Orca? A freighter?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Yogsoloth
Call of Cuthulu
#54 - 2015-03-01 20:38:16 UTC
Musashi IV wrote:
I used to have a 3 account ice mining corporation. It took many months and mil of isk to train 2 Mac and an Orca for ice mining.
I could log in anytime during the day and mine my quota of ice. Now I cant even fill one mining ship let alone an Orca before the ice is depleted!! If I dont log on withen an hour of server startup I prob wont get any Ice for the day. Even if they triple the size of an ice field thier are so many ships the ice would be gone withen an hour. If I had the time I could check every hour for ice but like many players I do not have the time to play the game 24/7. Ive had to cancel 2 of my accounts because I cant make enouph isk to make them worth while. Many of you may think this sounds boring. If all I did was ice mine you would be correct. With the isk I make from ice mining I am able to do anything I wanted over the years. Now Im just about to close down my last account. CCP you need to bring back permanant ice fields or at least respawn an ice asteriod in a different location when one is depleted.


If your mining for isk to plex your accounts, you're not really a paying subscriber and as such you aren't a priority for CCP, more of an after thought really. As you've stated someone else is always available to mine those belts and keep the market fed.

Branch out, expand your horizons and look for a new more lucrative, efficient, and perhaps more entertaining way to plex your account(s) imho.
Nathan Semah
N-C-i-S
#55 - 2015-03-01 20:42:33 UTC
Killian Trystan wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
OP: If you're willing to move (possibly to a different region) you will be able to find ice fields that last longer. For example Everyshore Region has a great concentration of ice belts where it is easy to check nearby system for ice.

Every ice belt will have a pattern where you can anticipate the normal spawn time by day of the week - you don't have to hang around all the time.


I live in Everyshore, and it's full of bots that CCP doesn't give a damn about. To the point that there's at least 10 multiboxing fleets (probably more) that go out, every single day, and go through every single ice belt in the five systems in the upper-left corner of the Everyshore region... In maybe a few hours? No solo players get a chance.

Sucks when I don't have the reprocessing skills (or standings) to make lots of ISK from ore, whereas just selling plain blue ice makes a lot more.

And yes, I've tried reporting the bots, multiple times. Every time I see the bot fleets, I report each and every one of them. Even sent in a ticket to CCP, sent in a list of names and why they hadn't been banned because of their obvious ISBoxer/Macro botting. "Oh sorry, you should just report them as bots with the report as bot feature" *closes ticket*

So yeah.. CCP doesn't give a damn about botting.



Multiboxing isn't botting try not to confuse the two. Multiboxing if perfectly legal within the rules laid down by CCP (subject to change), Botting however is not.
Killian Trystan
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#56 - 2015-03-01 20:48:54 UTC
Nathan Semah wrote:
Killian Trystan wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
OP: If you're willing to move (possibly to a different region) you will be able to find ice fields that last longer. For example Everyshore Region has a great concentration of ice belts where it is easy to check nearby system for ice.

Every ice belt will have a pattern where you can anticipate the normal spawn time by day of the week - you don't have to hang around all the time.


I live in Everyshore, and it's full of bots that CCP doesn't give a damn about. To the point that there's at least 10 multiboxing fleets (probably more) that go out, every single day, and go through every single ice belt in the five systems in the upper-left corner of the Everyshore region... In maybe a few hours? No solo players get a chance.

Sucks when I don't have the reprocessing skills (or standings) to make lots of ISK from ore, whereas just selling plain blue ice makes a lot more.

And yes, I've tried reporting the bots, multiple times. Every time I see the bot fleets, I report each and every one of them. Even sent in a ticket to CCP, sent in a list of names and why they hadn't been banned because of their obvious ISBoxer/Macro botting. "Oh sorry, you should just report them as bots with the report as bot feature" *closes ticket*

So yeah.. CCP doesn't give a damn about botting.



Multiboxing isn't botting try not to confuse the two. Multiboxing if perfectly legal within the rules laid down by CCP (subject to change), Botting however is not.


So someone using a Macro program isn't botting? /raises-eyebrow Because according to a ticket I sent to CCP, what they're doing is botting.
Nathan Semah
N-C-i-S
#57 - 2015-03-01 20:53:28 UTC
Killian Trystan wrote:
Nathan Semah wrote:
Killian Trystan wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
OP: If you're willing to move (possibly to a different region) you will be able to find ice fields that last longer. For example Everyshore Region has a great concentration of ice belts where it is easy to check nearby system for ice.

Every ice belt will have a pattern where you can anticipate the normal spawn time by day of the week - you don't have to hang around all the time.


I live in Everyshore, and it's full of bots that CCP doesn't give a damn about. To the point that there's at least 10 multiboxing fleets (probably more) that go out, every single day, and go through every single ice belt in the five systems in the upper-left corner of the Everyshore region... In maybe a few hours? No solo players get a chance.

Sucks when I don't have the reprocessing skills (or standings) to make lots of ISK from ore, whereas just selling plain blue ice makes a lot more.

And yes, I've tried reporting the bots, multiple times. Every time I see the bot fleets, I report each and every one of them. Even sent in a ticket to CCP, sent in a list of names and why they hadn't been banned because of their obvious ISBoxer/Macro botting. "Oh sorry, you should just report them as bots with the report as bot feature" *closes ticket*

So yeah.. CCP doesn't give a damn about botting.



Multiboxing isn't botting try not to confuse the two. Multiboxing if perfectly legal within the rules laid down by CCP (subject to change), Botting however is not.


So someone using a Macro program isn't botting? /raises-eyebrow Because according to a ticket I sent to CCP, what they're doing is botting.


That's not what I said, I said multiboxing is not botting try not to confuse the two.

Yes if you believe these people are botting then by all means keep reporting them. if however it turns out this person(s) are multiboxing with in the rules then they are perfectly entitled to continue what they are doing
Killian Trystan
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#58 - 2015-03-01 20:55:39 UTC
Nathan Semah wrote:
Killian Trystan wrote:
Nathan Semah wrote:
Killian Trystan wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
OP: If you're willing to move (possibly to a different region) you will be able to find ice fields that last longer. For example Everyshore Region has a great concentration of ice belts where it is easy to check nearby system for ice.

Every ice belt will have a pattern where you can anticipate the normal spawn time by day of the week - you don't have to hang around all the time.


I live in Everyshore, and it's full of bots that CCP doesn't give a damn about. To the point that there's at least 10 multiboxing fleets (probably more) that go out, every single day, and go through every single ice belt in the five systems in the upper-left corner of the Everyshore region... In maybe a few hours? No solo players get a chance.

Sucks when I don't have the reprocessing skills (or standings) to make lots of ISK from ore, whereas just selling plain blue ice makes a lot more.

And yes, I've tried reporting the bots, multiple times. Every time I see the bot fleets, I report each and every one of them. Even sent in a ticket to CCP, sent in a list of names and why they hadn't been banned because of their obvious ISBoxer/Macro botting. "Oh sorry, you should just report them as bots with the report as bot feature" *closes ticket*

So yeah.. CCP doesn't give a damn about botting.



Multiboxing isn't botting try not to confuse the two. Multiboxing if perfectly legal within the rules laid down by CCP (subject to change), Botting however is not.


So someone using a Macro program isn't botting? /raises-eyebrow Because according to a ticket I sent to CCP, what they're doing is botting.


That's not what I said, I said multiboxing is not botting try not to confuse the two.

Yes if you believe these people are botting then by all means keep reporting them. if however it turns out this person(s) are multiboxing with in the rules then they are perfectly entitled to continue what they are doing


I would wonder how a multiboxer would be within the rules if the entire fleet's mining lasers all start at the exact same time, on the same ice asteroid...
Nathan Semah
N-C-i-S
#59 - 2015-03-01 21:00:10 UTC
Killian Trystan wrote:

I would wonder how a multiboxer would be within the rules if the entire fleet's mining lasers all start at the exact same time, on the same ice asteroid...


Hence the reason if you believe they are doing something wrong then report them. Just don't automaticly assume because they are multiboxing that they are botting/cheating.
Killian Trystan
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#60 - 2015-03-01 21:04:47 UTC
Nathan Semah wrote:
Killian Trystan wrote:

I would wonder how a multiboxer would be within the rules if the entire fleet's mining lasers all start at the exact same time, on the same ice asteroid...


Hence the reason if you believe they are doing something wrong then report them. Just don't automaticly assume because they are multiboxing that they are botting/cheating.


I know that there's a difference. It's just that the majority of these fleets are obviously bots when they all start actions at the exact same time. And I'm not meaning fleet warping, as in start lasers at the same time, moving through the ice belt at the same time, all ejecting their cans at precisely the same moment etc.