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Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever

First post
Author
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#181 - 2015-01-30 20:58:27 UTC
I think that you people just don't want to hack things, well.. Just don't do it. More hacking for me. P
Orlacc
#182 - 2015-01-30 21:04:13 UTC
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

d026
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#183 - 2015-01-31 11:12:30 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.


i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.
d026
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#184 - 2015-01-31 11:15:04 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
N
Regarding "auto-hacking", if this module performs significantly worse than any manual low-skill hacker and pins you at the point (like bastion mode), I'm fine with it. In general I think, EvE needs more and not less activities which require actual player skills.

Just my point of view.


bullshite.. just make the module like pre patch. chance based with a cycle time of ccp's choosing and everybody is happy:)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2015-01-31 11:19:19 UTC
d026 wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.


i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.


there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you.

I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier.

Nakovi Kitsune
No Pressure.
#186 - 2015-01-31 18:22:24 UTC
Definitely agree with OP. Even if you just made it like it used to be, but made data and relic modules disable d-scan while turned on, that would be an improvement.

In short, I would rather watch a circle slowly fill up then play that horrendous mini-game. Devs should play the latest Deus Ex for an idea on how such a minigame should actually work.
Orlacc
#187 - 2015-01-31 18:36:48 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
d026 wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.


i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.


there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you.

I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier.




If I am the hole with you there is risk.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

d026
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#188 - 2015-01-31 18:54:01 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
d026 wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.


i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.


there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you.

I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier.



The risk is losing a frigate. This is quite crazy considering you can make 100,s of millions/h in 0.0 with almost minimal risk loosing ur pity frig. Back in the days to do a hacking site u needed at least something like a t2 cruiser to fight off the rats first. This makes the risk reward way more proportional. For example if you want to go run a ded plex in 0.0 you never gonna make it in a frigate. So heavily buff 0.0 exploration sites. Even in highec. To achieve a 100mil/h u gonna fly a rattlesnake or a golem both worth around a billion. Now you really wanna tel me u can earn the same amount in a frig? No way mate bring ur golem to 0.0. But u probably don't have the balls to do such a thing because u think decloaking for 15 seconds while doing a can is already to dangerous
d026
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#189 - 2015-01-31 18:59:51 UTC
Nakovi Kitsune wrote:
Definitely agree with OP. Even if you just made it like it used to be, but made data and relic modules disable d-scan while turned on, that would be an improvement.

In short, I would rather watch a circle slowly fill up then play that horrendous mini-game. Devs should play the latest Deus Ex for an idea on how such a minigame should actually work.


Disabling dscan only is hurting losec wh explorers. To make exploration risky again is to up the game. I would say for high reward exploration sites you need at best marauders or t3 ships at least. For shiny loot bring the shiny ship!
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#190 - 2015-01-31 19:55:50 UTC
d026 wrote:
Disabling dscan only is hurting losec wh explorers. To make exploration risky again is to up the game. I would say for high reward exploration sites you need at best marauders or t3 ships at least. For shiny loot bring the shiny ship!

Try sleepers sites and we'll talk about losing ships to PvE content. Especially superior sites. Also if nullsec was as much dangerous as lowsec you would have your treshold. Putting rats back doesn't make exploration riskier. You just can't adapt to new conditions.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

d026
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#191 - 2015-01-31 20:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: d026
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
d026 wrote:
Disabling dscan only is hurting losec wh explorers. To make exploration risky again is to up the game. I would say for high reward exploration sites you need at best marauders or t3 ships at least. For shiny loot bring the shiny ship!

Try sleepers sites and we'll talk about losing ships to PvE content. Especially superior sites. Also if nullsec was as much dangerous as lowsec you would have your treshold. Putting rats back doesn't make exploration riskier. You just can't adapt to new conditions.


Yes I agre 0.0 needs to be way more dangerous. That's why you shouldn't be able to do 0.0 sites in a covops in almost guaranteed safety. Adding rats to the sites would help a lot:)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2015-01-31 20:50:48 UTC
d026 wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
d026 wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.


i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.


there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you.

I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier.



The risk is losing a frigate. This is quite crazy considering you can make 100,s of millions/h in 0.0 with almost minimal risk loosing ur pity frig. Back in the days to do a hacking site u needed at least something like a t2 cruiser to fight off the rats first. This makes the risk reward way more proportional. For example if you want to go run a ded plex in 0.0 you never gonna make it in a frigate. So heavily buff 0.0 exploration sites. Even in highec. To achieve a 100mil/h u gonna fly a rattlesnake or a golem both worth around a billion. Now you really wanna tel me u can earn the same amount in a frig? No way mate bring ur golem to 0.0. But u probably don't have the balls to do such a thing because u think decloaking for 15 seconds while doing a can is already to dangerous



You're still not understanding.

Removing the minigame and adding rats just adds a skill barrier and means new players have absolutely ZERO chance of doing null/w-space exploration.

Having the minigame and no rats means that everyone is on even ground (more or less) and it depends on your skill with the game on how much risk is involved.

A veteran 10 year player can just as easily use a T1 exploration frigate and be just as effective at doing data/relics and that's the point of the whole thing.
d026
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#193 - 2015-02-01 15:39:26 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
d026 wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
d026 wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
You newb explorers thought you would just scan down sites and get rich. No. It takes about 15 secs to hack a can. Oooo. I can imagine if they went back to rats all over. Oooo....get rid of the rats it affects my game that I pay for. I think many of you are perhaps playing the wrong game.


i was running hacking sites back when they were introduced and had npc's in them. the bigger sites needed a proper tank to beat the waves if i remember right. tbh i much more preferred to kill some rats as the minigame than the hacking we have now. with rats in the plex you can't just ******* fly in hostile 0.0 with a frig costing you less than a couple million isk. you had to bring at least a real ship which could be blown up. right now we have a exploration system with very little risk and big rewards coupled with a very annoying minigame.


there is risk involved, you have to sit uncloaked while hacking which allows people to attack you.

I don't think you understand what risk means, fitting up an expensive ship that can tank rats while you hack is NOT risk. It's just a skill barrier.



The risk is losing a frigate. This is quite crazy considering you can make 100,s of millions/h in 0.0 with almost minimal risk loosing ur pity frig. Back in the days to do a hacking site u needed at least something like a t2 cruiser to fight off the rats first. This makes the risk reward way more proportional. For example if you want to go run a ded plex in 0.0 you never gonna make it in a frigate. So heavily buff 0.0 exploration sites. Even in highec. To achieve a 100mil/h u gonna fly a rattlesnake or a golem both worth around a billion. Now you really wanna tel me u can earn the same amount in a frig? No way mate bring ur golem to 0.0. But u probably don't have the balls to do such a thing because u think decloaking for 15 seconds while doing a can is already to dangerous



You're still not understanding.

Removing the minigame and adding rats just adds a skill barrier and means new players have absolutely ZERO chance of doing null/w-space exploration.

Having the minigame and no rats means that everyone is on even ground (more or less) and it depends on your skill with the game on how much risk is involved.

A veteran 10 year player can just as easily use a T1 exploration frigate and be just as effective at doing data/relics and that's the point of the whole thing.


i'm not really sure why a noob should be able to do any 0.0 sites at all. if you freshly start the game you work your way up.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2015-02-01 16:05:16 UTC
As with any part of the game, if you specialise in it you will be good at it in quite a short amount of time.

Exploration obviously has a sp cap, one that can be reached very quickly. If you add another layer of required sp on top of that, it's no longer exploration and more site running.
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#195 - 2015-02-01 22:00:08 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
As with any part of the game, if you specialise in it you will be good at it in quite a short amount of time.

Exploration obviously has a sp cap, one that can be reached very quickly. If you add another layer of required sp on top of that, it's no longer exploration and more site running.


Precisely. This is why there are Sleeper hacking sites that do have rats, and which can yield far greater reward if you can do both.

Also, the payout rate that some of you are quoting is ridiculous. Hundreds of millions per hour doing null explo in a frigate? As a pilot who regularly does this, I'm calling shenanigans. If I run sites for a solid three or four hours, I just might come home a hundred million richer. Maybe. And that's not accounting for travel time before and after my expedition. This while flying a well-kitted Stratios with solid hacking and scanning skills.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2015-02-04 22:40:04 UTC
Quattras Peione wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
As with any part of the game, if you specialise in it you will be good at it in quite a short amount of time.

Exploration obviously has a sp cap, one that can be reached very quickly. If you add another layer of required sp on top of that, it's no longer exploration and more site running.


Precisely. This is why there are Sleeper hacking sites that do have rats, and which can yield far greater reward if you can do both.

Also, the payout rate that some of you are quoting is ridiculous. Hundreds of millions per hour doing null explo in a frigate? As a pilot who regularly does this, I'm calling shenanigans. If I run sites for a solid three or four hours, I just might come home a hundred million richer. Maybe. And that's not accounting for travel time before and after my expedition. This while flying a well-kitted Stratios with solid hacking and scanning skills.



Agreed, hours of time invested for very little return, but this silly Pac-Man game is actually more profitable per hour currently than Plexing were once it used to be a very profitable time invested pursuit, now it is to be quite honest a pitiful occupation in Null Sec, I can well understand now why so many of my Corp and Alliance members actually gave up on the idea.

Considering the trail of Nerf's CCP have inflicted on players this past few years, Spun off as improvements to the game, the Devs seem to have overlooked the fact that currently many players would rather sit in station and spin then even consider scanning as a form of ISK/Content generation, partly due to the poor rewards but in the main due to the Pac-Man game, a soul destroying occupation when simply by using a cargo scanner you already know that all this idiotic clicking is going to get you very little in the end even if you crack the can.

This Dev indicates that the mini game was not as designed, I would offer that it is in fact totally counter productive when compared to the original method used in scanning, the rewards often bear no relation to the time invested and even the so called high end finds are poor when there is no market outlet other than contracts for those unwilling to engage in that other CCP nerf nightmare manufacturing.

As a CeO and a long term permanent resident of Null Sec space, if this is the quality of the ideas aimed at enticing players out of Empire space my I suggest that whatever you guys are smoking you should reconsider, it is not doing you any good, gaining you no brownie points and certainly not increasing the game interest and content for players by putting every impediment you can dream up in there way, EVE was never meant to be the haunt of the brainless, please stop treating players as if they were.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Orlacc
#197 - 2015-02-05 02:51:37 UTC
You all understand that more high-end loot would make the price of said loot drop until it is no longer high end...right?

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#198 - 2015-02-05 07:30:21 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Agreed, hours of time invested for very little return, but this silly Pac-Man game is actually more profitable per hour currently than Plexing were once it used to be a very profitable time invested pursuit, now it is to be quite honest a pitiful occupation in Null Sec, I can well understand now why so many of my Corp and Alliance members actually gave up on the idea.

Considering the trail of Nerf's CCP have inflicted on players this past few years, Spun off as improvements to the game, the Devs seem to have overlooked the fact that currently many players would rather sit in station and spin then even consider scanning as a form of ISK/Content generation, partly due to the poor rewards but in the main due to the Pac-Man game, a soul destroying occupation when simply by using a cargo scanner you already know that all this idiotic clicking is going to get you very little in the end even if you crack the can.

This Dev indicates that the mini game was not as designed, I would offer that it is in fact totally counter productive when compared to the original method used in scanning, the rewards often bear no relation to the time invested and even the so called high end finds are poor when there is no market outlet other than contracts for those unwilling to engage in that other CCP nerf nightmare manufacturing.

As a CeO and a long term permanent resident of Null Sec space, if this is the quality of the ideas aimed at enticing players out of Empire space my I suggest that whatever you guys are smoking you should reconsider, it is not doing you any good, gaining you no brownie points and certainly not increasing the game interest and content for players by putting every impediment you can dream up in there way, EVE was never meant to be the haunt of the brainless, please stop treating players as if they were.

So:
you don't like the hacking mechanics, then there is something about income is too good, then something about income is too small, cargo scanning ability whine (i can't decide about what you whining with cargo scanning, ability to hack shiny cans and decrese the level of hacking or whining about cherrypicking), then something about permanent residents of nullsec not falling into this awfull mechanism, then something about smoking, eating brown cake?, and... i lost it...
So you want back to sit and watch hacking module are doing hacking noise and hacking by itself? in the name of progress?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

PhantomMajor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2015-02-05 11:27:21 UTC
I recently returned to scanning again and i missed the "spew of cans" thank god. However i have done several data sites in null sec and i view them as a total waste of time and effort, the loot that i was able to retrieve from one site was barely 2 milliion isk in value.

Being rusty it took me ten minutes to scan the site down, ( have improved on that since then) followed by another ten minutes trying to figure out the "mini-game", all of this was done in "safe" null sec which gave me the advantage on numerous levels. I do feel if i was a freelance then flying through hostile null sec to scan down sites which pay out so little and leave you vulnerable to attack simply isn't worth the effort, especially with the stupid mini-game check hinders you from taking defensive action to avoid being killed...simply put the old way was far superior.

In short my twenty minutes scanning and mini-gaming netted me around 2 million isk. If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage.

scanning and mini-games are a waste of time if you want to earn cash fast, even in isk pile that null sec is reported to be!
Orlacc
#200 - 2015-02-05 13:01:03 UTC
PhantomMajor wrote:
I recently returned to scanning again and i missed the "spew of cans" thank god. However i have done several data sites in null sec and i view them as a total waste of time and effort, the loot that i was able to retrieve from one site was barely 2 milliion isk in value.

Being rusty it took me ten minutes to scan the site down, ( have improved on that since then) followed by another ten minutes trying to figure out the "mini-game", all of this was done in "safe" null sec which gave me the advantage on numerous levels. I do feel if i was a freelance then flying through hostile null sec to scan down sites which pay out so little and leave you vulnerable to attack simply isn't worth the effort, especially with the stupid mini-game check hinders you from taking defensive action to avoid being killed...simply put the old way was far superior.

In short my twenty minutes scanning and mini-gaming netted me around 2 million isk. If i rat in a carrier and do a sanctum which takes a similar amount of time i earn 30 million in bounties another 8-9 million in rat loot and possibly 5-6 million in salvage.

scanning and mini-games are a waste of time if you want to earn cash fast, even in isk pile that null sec is reported to be!



Maybe you are not really that good at it. I do fine.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."