EVE General Discussion

There's a different between needless complexity and depth of gameplay. The depth of ship building is a good thing in Eve, but needing to use tools like Pyfa and EFT shows a problem. In that case the devs are working on making the in game tool work more like EFT.

Evemon and skill planners indicates that another area of the game has a problem. Now they could port that functionality into the game or they could look into whether or not the core system needs work. With ship building the core system is pretty solid, except for a few areas which is one reason why they're doing a module tiercide. But on the attributes front it may make more sense to scrap the existing system and put in something that's still provides options for specialization but is a lot clearer than combinations of two attributes equaling some formula of SP/hour.

Do I get a free alt for the super too since I am not trained/willing to "spacecoffin" this toon?

:D

Pretty much anything you want to train you can train to a fairly good level (4) without having to resort to remaps or even worry about attributes, with the exception of certain skills locked behind high multiplier level 5 prerequisites, ie Black Ops Battleships or Titans.

Personally, I only remap when I want to train all the skills with those attributes to 5, specifically specializations. Otherwise, imo it is not worth the remap to shave 18 hours off of the 30 days required to get a bunch of skills to 4.

I see no reason to remove learning implants.

"So with Perception/Willpower how much faster do you train Gunnery when they're 25/23 vs 23/21? Or if they're 23/25?"
Yes granted there isnt much of a noticable difference, so maybe instead of removing it make it so that if you do select a higher level of attribute it is worth it.


"It's really a legacy mechanic from back when they "locked in" the type of character you were(combat, indy, etc) at creation. If you're not locking in people anymore there's probably a much better way to let people temporarily specialize, like plugging in Math and Physic implants while you train to be a fighter pilot."

But I guess this is one point that I struggle with, why lock people in. Because you know what sometimes there are consequences for your actions. To many people dont want to have consequences for an action. You can't just try and be a pilot, it is something you have to decide. Granted you can start the training and if you decide you dont like it, then you change, but you cant just change at a drop of a hat. There is some planning and possible re-training.

I like having the attributes, I think they should be in game but make them more specific and meaningful, plus with attribute enhancers, if you want to fly a Black Ops, then you focus on that ship, if you want to be a Mackinaw Pilot then you focus on that and map your attributes accordingly to give to the fastest possible way to train.

Maybe then allow for remaps sooner than a year bcause lets face it, flying a Mackniaw for a year can be a bit of a drag, you might suddenly wake up and get the taste for PVP. Oh wait thats right they are suppose to make people PVP adverse.

They can't catch up, older players will get SP at the same rate regardless of what that rate is. But isn't that what people in this thread want? Equality?

I thought this thread was about not giving older, more wealthy players, and advantage so I'm sure everyone will agree to a no remaps, no implants solution, regardless of the base attribs as it creates equality? What's wrong with the base 19-20 attribs?

Ahh, politics.

Okay, here's what's going to happen. Attributes, remaps, and attribute implants are going to die. Regular combat implants are going to remain, but they're probably going to be rebalanced a bit to compensate for some of the missing holes.

SP will become a flat SP/H based on the current maximum, or something very close to it. In addition, expect a balancing pass for implants. They might take the opportunity to rework the bonuses a bit, but overall the system should remain superficially the same: Stick chips in your head for fighty power, get podded and lose the fighty power. Circle of life. Expect compensation in the form of LP for any implants that go missing.

I know all this because I have over a decade of studying MMOs in general and EVE in particular, and also because I have the cognitive ability required to whistle and **** at the same time.

The core of it is this: Due to a combination of tradition and greed, MMO companies like to keep you from being max level too quickly. They put up walls between newbie level and maxed out character level. Eve's skill system is different from the leveling systems you see in most MMOs, but the fundamental drive is the same.

What isn't the same, however, is the methodology. Eve's designers originally made the brilliant observation that the goal of the "grind" is too keep people from getting powerful too quickly. That is, it's a delay. It's about time. So why not make the progression system in Eve purely a question of waiting? It's a simple system, and you don't force people to do **** they don't want to in order to advance.

But see, here's the kicker. In most MMOs, progression speed is not a universal constant. There's no real hard cap on how fast you can hit 100 in WoW. I mean, in practice there is, but it's a soft sort of cap. In Eve, it's really hard and fast. But there's still some minor variance. Implants, attributes, remaps.

CCP wants to kill that variance.

Why?

Because it is a dominating force. You can always say "I'll level faster". You can always say "I'll grind more missions" or "I'll mine more Veldspar". But you can't say "I'll create more time". You can't magic any extra hours out of your ass. Which means if people are given the choice of "make the most of my only hard limited resource" or "do literally anything else", you better believe they're going to go with sitting in a station with a head full of +5s. It's the same logic that caused learning skills to get vaporized way back when, and it's just as relevant now as it was back then.

This is why the system is bad. This is why it's going to die. This is why the game will be better for it.

No, your precious hardcore sandbox is not going away. Nobody's getting free Titans in their inbox. This is not the beginning of the end, it's another step in the endless refining process. Embrace the change and realize it'll result in better living for everybody.

Or cry loudly. It doesn't make a lot of difference.

No, your logic is flawed. I thought this was about evening the playing field, removing implants and remaps? Regardless of what everyone's SP/h will be set to, newbies will never catch up to older players so given that it really doesn't matter what the sp/h is.


Or... could it be... just perhaps... that this isn't at all about equality, but about how you and everyone else want 2700SP/h without any of the downsides? That this whole "nonono, it's better for the game and the newbies, THINK OF THE NEWBIES!" is just a lie?

SAY IT AINT SO!

Nice try, but it's just a shill.

Removing implants and remaps does not in any way diminish or remove this "problem" (ps, there is no problem). It's all just clueless people trying their best to convince others of how sincere they are. Newbies do not get into a better position if remaps or implants get removed.


All that gets removed is possible risk and consequences to choices, which is of course what bad EVE players want.

Two at least (you'll need a cyno alt). And since you asked nicely they should throw in a pony too.

EDIT: Not throw! Nicely place down in front of you, and give it a pat and a carrot, this post in no way endorses cruelty to animals

You just went full ******, never go full ******. Your hilariously dumb "caps on everything", which is just you being attention whore, and what you... typed gives an overall feeling of you being clueless on the game.

Also, you showcased just brilliantly as to why you're just a hypocrite liar. You're not in this "for the betterment of the game" or "think of the newbies", it's just you being selfish and want this for personal reasons which mostly have to do with your warped idea of how SP is important, and how you want to speed up training without downsides to get to your personal goals asap.

You can stop the charade, no one's buying it.