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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#541 - 2014-12-18 23:34:51 UTC
Could recons please get a fitting bonus to allow them to fit Extended Probe Launchers.
To allow them to..... Actually recon.

This also provides counter play to the Dscan immunity as Dscan immunity is not combat probe immunity.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#542 - 2014-12-18 23:36:22 UTC
To those worried about the D-Scan invulnerability, I highly recommend you to read this.

In my humble opinion, I don't think the whole D-Scan inmunity thing would be so OP and game-breaking as many say.

The reasons people bring up is that they would not be able to know if there's an enemy incoming, even when checking D-Scan actively, and that they would get suddenly ganked.

I think that isn't necessarily true, as long as these players use the other tools at their disposal and take measures to reduce the risk of being ganked. I've been living in W-Space for quite a long time; I've hunted, I've been hunted, I've been ganked by cloakies. And most of those loses were due to me taking too big risks instead of being prudent. Now I try not to repeat the same mistakes.

First, even on W-Space, we have Combat Probes. They might require an Expanded Probe Launcher, a pinch of extra work (number of clicks) and might not inmediatly tell what ship is that, but they WILL work against these new Combat Recons. If your D-Scan says nobody's around, yet your probes see something, then you should expect a CR to be around. If you're not i W-Space, you also have Local Chat to check if you're really alone. And if you do are in W-Space, you should be always expecting to be watched by a cloaked someone (you're not always going to catch them in the few seconds they uncloak). As soon as you become confident, that cloaky will remind you about being prudent.
Also, a full 8-probes load can cover a much bigger volume of space than your 14.3 AU D-Scan. You can essentially disperse them around and have them scan as frecuently as you can, in the same way you would use D-Scan. Not to mention the probes reveal the same targets than D-Scan does, excepting it can also detect Combat Recons. And, of course, you can use both tools simultaneously.

Second, if you're running sites, be it alone or with friends, you should make sure you're NOT on the warp-in point for too long. Also applies for planets and other bookmarks. When you land somewhere, you should inmediatly make your ship move. Your best chance would be to have it aligned to a "safe" place, but having a random direction works too. That way, if the Combat Recon, cloaky-something or another kind of ship warps to your site/planet, you'll be far away enough not to be quickly pointed and shot at, and you should have time to warp away. This is important even if you're on a cloaky yourself, since if they land on you they'll uncloak you. Of course, you should also be aware of possible, sudden warp-ins and be prepared to GTFO.

Third, cloaky ships already are inmune to D-Scan (as long as they are cloaked). Yet nobody complains about them. Nobody complains to suddenly have a T3 appear right at their optimal and have yourself suddenly pointed and melted. Without any kind of targeting delay. Or to briefly see a pack of Stealth Bombers while they unload a bomb run on you, or proceed to torpedo your everything. Or just be permanently watched by a Covops. And yes, that happens in W-Space too, and a lot. And no, you can't see those ships until they're right on top of you. And on top of that, all ships can fit a cloaking device; it might not be as pretty as the covops one, but will still give them "D-Scan invulnerability" and allow them to scout or wait for an ambush.

With this change, Combat Recons will NOT get that tremendous capability. You might not see them on your D-Scan, but they will arrive to you uncloaked for everyone to see. If you remember the 2nd tip, you should not be near the warp-in point. Oh wait, they landed directly on you by using Combat Probes? Well, that could happen with any other ship they wanted to use, and you should have seen those Combat Probes, and warped away as soon as you saw them. That's not "they're not allowing me to run sites, I can't play"; that has been happening since Combat Probes appeared, nobody seems to hate them, and since they do show up on D-Scan, you should have acted accordingly. If you think the area is too hot with gankers, just move to a different place.

And, don't forget these are just 4 ships. Four, in a total of... many more, of which many are better suited to land on you unexpectedly and/or watch you while invisible. At least with these changes, these 4 ships will be able to perform their Recon role with some "camouflage" themselves. They will still have to move frecuently though, since they're completely visible to anyone who's on grid with them.

As a W-Space resident, I'm confident taking measures against these new Combat Recons will just be a matter of getting the habit of deploying Combat Probes more often. Everyone can do this, even the lonely solo site-runner (and yes, I've run exploration sites on my own, even in 0.0 and W-Space).
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#543 - 2014-12-18 23:36:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
wrote:
I don't think I have ever been killed by just a recon before. Was there some massive boost in firepower I didn't see in the OP?


never been killed by a curse?

i did see one kill back in o6 where it was a curse and a vegabond.



MAybe you shoudl re read his sentence. JUST A RECON.. that means a recon and nothign else. That curse and vagabond would appear very well on D-SCAN.


NO I DID READ. I LIKE CAPS TOO.

it was the closest i could find for his losses that was solo.

though solo curse before the nos nerf was totally a thing back in the day.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#544 - 2014-12-18 23:36:46 UTC
[Lachesis, Solo]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector II
Medium Anti-EM Pump II

Hammerhead II x5


This look interesting. The ability to damp two ships down to very low targeting range, (I'm guessing here) >40k EHP and 350DPS at 18km with bonkers tracking on railguns and full tackle at that range all without links!



or as a Shield HAC with long scram range...

[Lachesis, HAC]
Power Diagnostic System II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Scrambler II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

Hammerhead II x5


approx 42k EHP 450 DPS at >20km with superb tracking for rails.

Lachesis is probably gonna be king.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#545 - 2014-12-18 23:39:37 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
There is a couple things here I am concerned about:

  • ECM still offers no counter play. Effectively rendering a player unable to do anything for at least 20 seconds plus the time it takes them to relock anything. 99.99% fo all combat in this game involves locking a target. ECM drones turn any ship into a diet Blackbird. ECM needs to be revamped from the ground up and should not involve removing a players ability to play the game.
  • Celestis being incredibly powerful from 100+km is silly.
  • If it turns out combat recons not being on the directional scanner is an option, perhaps showing the ships as the T1 version of the ship instead would be a good compromise. i.e. the directional scanner shows an Arbitrator on scan when in fact it is really a Curse.
Semi-related, but what are the odds of a new high slot module that can not be fit if there is any type of cyno fit as well, only allowed for recons and means they do not appear in local? Perhaps I am dreaming a bit too hard here.


The counterplay to ECM it's the damp from Arazu/Lachesis/Celestis.. Hell, Keres does a great job at that too :)

How do you do that when you are jammed? Ugh


I think since day 1 rise has wanted to change ECM

my fav ideas are to either make ECM affect missiles like TD's do for turrets.

or to make ECM and Sensor strength affect how X is cacluated in the damage application formula... you have the chance to hit which is a number that is then compared to a random number which is X . X is used to determin if that is a barely scratch or a perfect hit.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dani Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#546 - 2014-12-18 23:40:11 UTC
As if FW needed any more incentive to stay at the frigate/destroyer meta level in novices and smalls.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#547 - 2014-12-18 23:41:03 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
-I need to point this out since it keeps popping up in this thread like a demented gopher and needs to be put down:
The Huginn should not get missiles. Core Complexion ships in this game have missiles as part of their identity with the new balance meta, so Boundless Creation ships shouldn't be getting it at all in any instance. You want a TP bonus on a t2 missile cruiser? Tough sh*t! Caldari are the ones who need the bloody TP bonuses to compliment their missiles; minmatar just needs something else like web strength or extra combat usability. Web range is a bonus as effective if not more so in pvp since it is the literal definition of range control. They should have fixed this a LONG time ago but it's never once been addressed.

Hm. You raise a good point about the corporate tendencies. I p.much never think about that (frankly, because I think it adds very little to the game).

This does pretty efficiently neuter the Huginn, though. Rapier or Lach will be better for anything that I can think of off the top of my head. Am I missing a use case, perhaps in FW?


pssh. The Lach will get great for those nano-shield gangs and nothing else.

Lach needs a 4th (or 5th) low and a bloody damage bonus. The balance pass on the caldari and gallente recons was substandard at best and absurdly lazy at worst.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#548 - 2014-12-18 23:42:13 UTC
Dani Maulerant wrote:
As if FW needed any more incentive to stay at the frigate/destroyer meta level in novices and smalls.


We totally need Pirate Faction Faction warfare...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#549 - 2014-12-18 23:45:06 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
Third, cloaky ships already are inmune to D-Scan (as long as they are cloaked). Yet nobody complains about them.

Now posting in a stealth nerf AFK cloakers thread. P
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#550 - 2014-12-18 23:45:14 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Hello Rise, I think the changes you've made to the covert recon line are great and all make perfect sense.

I'm not really sure what direction you're taking the Combat Recons in, the undetectable on directional scanner feels like a really situational bonus that will either incredibly powerful if you're in situation which allows you show up to a fight your opponent is unprepared for (like at a 5000km bookmark off a gate, or in wormholes). Or otherwise negliable, I don't think the Combat Recons offer anything for small-med gangs aside from people who are setting up traps. And when you're setting up a trap, why not use a Falcon instead of a 5000km bookmark Rook, or their varients, it doesn't offer much in addition to the Falcon. The main problem with Combat Recons is that they don't offer much different game play from the Covert variant, with exception of the Curse. Why take a Huginn in a fleet when a Rapier does the same job with more tank, with cynosural field and covert cloak.

I would much rather see a heavier focus on damage bonuses on the Combat Recons, remove the directional scan immunity. Take them in a direction similar to the Heavy Interdictor changes that you rolled out in Oceanus. Which will make them more appealing to use in small gangs and solo, where people care more about DPS.

Here are a few examples

Huginn
High: 4, Mid: 6. Low: 4 (3 Launchers)
MC: 5% to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire, 10% to TP effectiveness
RC: 60% to web optimal, 10% to Missile launcher velocity, 5% to missile launcher explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to missile damage.
Drone: 40m3
(8 Effective Launchers)

I think this is much more interesting than a projectile focused Huginn, and also provides progession from Bellicose -> Huginn. Both Short and Long range missile launchers benefit from longer ranged webs and bonused target painters which has more synergy. The Rapier already has more of a focus on turrets anyway, and it provides it with something to differentiate itself from the standard web loki which uses projectiles.

Rook:
High: 4, Mid 7: low: 4 (3 Launchers)
CC: 10% to Kinetic Missile damage, 10% to ECM capacitor cost
RC: 30% to ECM Strength, 10% to launcher velocity, 5% to missile launcher explosion velocity
Drone: 25m3
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to missile damage
(9 effective launchers kinetic locked, 6 effective launchers non kinetic)

The Rook needs to differentiate itself more from the Falcon, an extra low allows it to achieve better DPS output, better tank, or more EWAR power at the expense of not having the covert cloak. In contrast to the Huginn, the Rook has higher raw damage output than the Huginn but locked into kinetic, not having the synergetic web/TP bonuses that the Huginn has, and being slower, it comes close to the Cerberus/Othrus in terms of raw DPS output, but at the expense of being much less mobile, more vulnerable and with lower cap stability.

Lachesis
High: 4, Mid: 6, Low: 4 (3 turrets)
GC: 5% to Medium hybrid damage, 7.5% to damp effectiveness
RC: 20% to Warp Disruption range, 10% to Medium Hybrid Optimal range, 7.5% to medium hybrid tracking
Drone: 50m3 (+10)
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Medium Hybrid damage
(7.5 effective turrets)

I like your redesign of the Lachesis a lot, but think it should be focused more towards higher damage, 5 effective turrets isn't enough imo.

Curse. - Keep it the same, remove the directional scanner immunity, 3rd bonus added to recon ship skill, +5% to Drone MWD Speed and Tracking.


Much better proposal on all accounts IMO.


The problem is that then they step over HAC territory. It woudl be logical if the HACS were not in the way.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#551 - 2014-12-18 23:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Komodo Askold wrote:
To those worried about the D-Scan invulnerability, I highly recommend you to read this.

In my humble opinion, I don't think the whole D-Scan inmunity thing would be so OP and game-breaking as many say.

The reasons people bring up is that they would not be able to know if there's an enemy incoming, even when checking D-Scan actively, and that they would get suddenly ganked.

I think that isn't necessarily true, as long as these players use the other tools at their disposal and take measures to reduce the risk of being ganked. I've been living in W-Space for quite a long time; I've hunted, I've been hunted, I've been ganked by cloakies. And most of those loses were due to me taking too big risks instead of being prudent. Now I try not to repeat the same mistakes.

First, even on W-Space, we have Combat Probes. They might require an Expanded Probe Launcher, a pinch of extra work (number of clicks) and might not inmediatly tell what ship is that, but they WILL work against these new Combat Recons. If your D-Scan says nobody's around, yet your probes see something, then you should expect a CR to be around. If you're not i W-Space, you also have Local Chat to check if you're really alone. And if you do are in W-Space, you should be always expecting to be watched by a cloaked someone (you're not always going to catch them in the few seconds they uncloak). As soon as you become confident, that cloaky will remind you about being prudent.
Also, a full 8-probes load can cover a much bigger volume of space than your 14.3 AU D-Scan. You can essentially disperse them around and have them scan as frecuently as you can, in the same way you would use D-Scan. Not to mention the probes reveal the same targets than D-Scan does, excepting it can also detect Combat Recons. And, of course, you can use both tools simultaneously.

Second, if you're running sites, be it alone or with friends, you should make sure you're NOT on the warp-in point for too long. Also applies for planets and other bookmarks. When you land somewhere, you should inmediatly make your ship move. Your best chance would be to have it aligned to a "safe" place, but having a random direction works too. That way, if the Combat Recon, cloaky-something or another kind of ship warps to your site/planet, you'll be far away enough not to be quickly pointed and shot at, and you should have time to warp away. This is important even if you're on a cloaky yourself, since if they land on you they'll uncloak you. Of course, you should also be aware of possible, sudden warp-ins and be prepared to GTFO.

Third, cloaky ships already are inmune to D-Scan (as long as they are cloaked). Yet nobody complains about them. Nobody complains to suddenly have a T3 appear right at their optimal and have yourself suddenly pointed and melted. Without any kind of targeting delay. Or to briefly see a pack of Stealth Bombers while they unload a bomb run on you, or proceed to torpedo your everything. Or just be permanently watched by a Covops. And yes, that happens in W-Space too, and a lot. And no, you can't see those ships until they're right on top of you. And on top of that, all ships can fit a cloaking device; it might not be as pretty as the covops one, but will still give them "D-Scan invulnerability" and allow them to scout or wait for an ambush.

With this change, Combat Recons will NOT get that tremendous capability. You might not see them on your D-Scan, but they will arrive to you uncloaked for everyone to see. If you remember the 2nd tip, you should not be near the warp-in point. Oh wait, they landed directly on you by using Combat Probes? Well, that could happen with any other ship they wanted to use, and you should have seen those Combat Probes, and warped away as soon as you saw them. That's not "they're not allowing me to run sites, I can't play"; that has been happening since Combat Probes appeared, nobody seems to hate them, and since they do show up on D-Scan, you should have acted accordingly. If you think the area is too hot with gankers, just move to a different place.

And, don't forget these are just 4 ships. Four, in a total of... many more, of which many are better suited to land on you unexpectedly and/or watch you while invisible. At least with these changes, these 4 ships will be able to perform their Recon role with some "camouflage" themselves. They will still have to move frecuently though, since they're completely visible to anyone who's on grid with them.

As a W-Space resident, I'm confident taking measures against these new Combat Recons will just be a matter of getting the habit of deploying Combat Probes more often. Everyone can do this, even the lonely solo site-runner (and yes, I've run exploration sites on my own, even in 0.0 and W-Space).

Good post, I was thinking along these lines myself and you pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Would be also quite easy to put in a clause that the beacon in a FW plex interferes with the dscan immunity, although I would wait to see if it really is game breaking or not before implementing that as FWers could just use combat probes also.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#552 - 2014-12-18 23:58:41 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Rise if I were you I woudl reverse rapier and huggin on missiles and guns. Rapier already has cloak. It doe snto nee d to have the strongest weapon system to add on that.

The dps on the rapier is anaemic with projectiles, I'm very happy to see the switch to missiles. Projectile turrets on a combat recon should be much better due to the extra turret point and damage bonus. That being said making them both missile ships would be the optimal situation, but if you have to have one as the projectile ship then it is better to make that the huginn in my opinion.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#553 - 2014-12-18 23:59:20 UTC
I'm sad CCP missed the opportunity to take 1 ship class out of local and opted for D-scan immunity. If you really want them to fulfill the recon role, taking them out of local would go a lot further than D-scan immunity. The D-scan immunity just opens up a whole lot of ganking options in PVE sites. As much as I love and participate in the whole gank thing - I'll say eve would be better off w/ more pvp options and fewer gank the bear options.

I think CCP just recently put out that 'getting ganked' was a major reason newbros leave the game. Now you hand this out?? I know this won't be used to gank empire missioners, but it's going to be a serious kick in the junk to fw plex runners.

Low sec is going to be polluted w/ recons sitting on plex gates.... until folks get tired of being ganked every time they warp to them. If I've learned anything in my time in eve - putting these things in play doesn't generate content - it just causes folks to stop playing in a way they can get ganked. I can see a lot of folks saying 'goodby FW - hellow incursions'

It really is time to take a ship class out of local to help null bears re-learn how to live with risk. It really isn't the time to make it easy to gank someone in PVE that is actively (using D-scan) trying to take reasonable precautions.

This blinding a player who is actively trying to do the right thing is (my opinion) a step in the wrong direction.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#554 - 2014-12-18 23:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
Komi Toran wrote:
Komodo Askold wrote:
Third, cloaky ships already are inmune to D-Scan (as long as they are cloaked). Yet nobody complains about them.

Now posting in a stealth nerf AFK cloakers thread. P
Not my intention. I don't think cloaking devices are OP. And I find the "nerf AFK cloakers" as ridiculous as most people (AFK means not playing...). What I mean with that sentence is that there is a lot of rage for the proposed change to Combat Recons, while cloaked ships have been doing that for a very long time, and they haven't broken the game either.
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'm sad CCP missed the opportunity to take 1 ship class out of local and opted for D-scan immunity. If you really want them to fulfill the recon role, taking them out of local would go a lot further than D-scan immunity. The D-scan immunity just opens up a whole lot of ganking options in PVE sites. As much as I love and participate in the whole gank thing - I'll say eve would be better off w/ more pvp options and fewer gank the bear options.

I think CCP just recently put out that 'getting ganked' was a major reason newbros leave the game. Now you hand this out?? I know this won't be used to gank empire missioners, but it's going to be a serious kick in the junk to fw plex runners.

Low sec is going to be polluted w/ recons sitting on plex gates.... until folks get tired of being ganked every time they warp to them. If I've learned anything in my time in eve - putting these things in play doesn't generate content - it just causes folks to stop playing in a way they can get ganked. I can see a lot of folks saying 'goodby FW - hellow incursions'

It really is time to take a ship class out of local to help null bears re-learn how to live with risk. It really isn't the time to make it easy to gank someone in PVE that is actively (using D-scan) trying to take reasonable precautions.

This blinding a player who is actively trying to do the right thing is (my opinion) a step in the wrong direction.
Taking Combat Recons out of Local would be completely useless for them in W-Space; there they would just be T2 combat cruisers.

I suggest you to read my (long) post a few posts above yours. There's no more "player blinding" as there has been, without breaking the game, for quite some time.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#555 - 2014-12-19 00:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
komodo wall-of-text

cloaked ships are immune to D-scan, but they also have a declaoking delay before they can lock something. A sensor boosted arazu/lachesis can warp in and insta lock a guy who has no chance to do anything. So it isn't the same.

I don't complain about them because you have a chance when they uncloak to get away while they wait out thier uncloaking delay and activate modules. W/ D-scan immunity they would land w/ sensor boosers already online and no claoking delay.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#556 - 2014-12-19 00:09:49 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
komodo wall-of-text

cloaked ships are immune to D-scan, but they also have a declaoking delay before they can lock something. A sensor boosted arazu/lachesis can warp in and insta lock a guy who has no chance to do anything. So it isn't the same.

I don't complain about them because you have a chance when they uncloak to get away while they wait out thier uncloaking delay and activate modules. W/ D-scan immunity they would land w/ sensor boosers already online and no claoking delay.
Fair point; I recognise the mistake about cloakies' locking delay. However any non-cloaky, non-recon ship with sensor boosters can insta-lock everything, even pods. Also, since ships that are warping-in can be seen a few seconds before they stop completely (that is, before they can lock anything), their targets can do something in the meanwhile, such as try to warp away. And again, that happens with every non-cloaky ship, even the new Combar Recons.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#557 - 2014-12-19 00:14:17 UTC
Who gives a damn about the d-scan change. Now all the weaknesses recons had before (being slow, having awful cap, less tanky) are just completely removed. Perma-MWDing recons going 3km/s with 70k ehp will be really fun to deal with. Thanks CCP for breaking the game.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Krops Vont
#558 - 2014-12-19 00:17:46 UTC
Oh the glorious tears. So many people whining yet... so much joy. These things are going to be a blast.

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

It makes sense, they are RECON ships, should be master of hiding themselves. Maybe make only recons detectable by other recons? (not too broken)

--==Services==--

Propaganda/Art/Media

Wormhole Finding & Selling

o/ Play for fun
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#559 - 2014-12-19 00:23:16 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
komodo wall-of-text

cloaked ships are immune to D-scan, but they also have a declaoking delay before they can lock something. A sensor boosted arazu/lachesis can warp in and insta lock a guy who has no chance to do anything. So it isn't the same.

I don't complain about them because you have a chance when they uncloak to get away while they wait out thier uncloaking delay and activate modules. W/ D-scan immunity they would land w/ sensor boosers already online and no claoking delay.
Fair point; I recognise the mistake about cloakies' locking delay. However any non-cloaky, non-recon ship with sensor boosters can insta-lock everything, even pods. Also, since ships that are warping-in can be seen a few seconds before they stop completely (that is, before they can lock anything), their targets can do something in the meanwhile, such as try to warp away. And again, that happens with every non-cloaky ship, even the new Combar Recons.



Currently you can either see them coming on D-scan OR they have a delay on uncloaking. If this change goes through, then recons will have neither. I'm telling you flat out what I'm going to do with this. Refit a lachesis to max sensor boosts and the guys will have zero change of getting away. I'm a ganker, not a gankee and I'm telling you - this is going to be busted from the second it's implemented.

Folks only get ganked w/ no chance to evade so many times before they pull the incursion D-ring and go make tons of nice safe empire isk. Just like my obvious move is to sensor boost the crap out of a recon, the obvious move for the guys getting ganked is to go somewhere (empire incursions) where they can make isk w/out that happening.

You think guys are risk averse in null and dock up immediately upon a neutral entering their system? After this change it will be the only option for survival. Remember - all I have to do is tackle the guy in a sensor boosted recon and light my blops cyno. It will be fun while it lasts.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#560 - 2014-12-19 00:23:38 UTC
I guess the D-scan change is interesting after all.

And since it benefits my two Recon V all EWAR maxed toons, I'm just going to ride it this time. My favourite ships get to shine for a while before they are nerfed for being absurdly OP.