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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2014-12-18 18:11:16 UTC
Grm Makentor wrote:
>dscan immune ships with covops cloaks in w-space
jesus christ what were they thinking, so mandatory scouting alts on every hole now?


Combat recons are getting the d-scan buff, and unless I misread something they still cant use covops cloaks.
Iain Cariaba
#322 - 2014-12-18 18:11:21 UTC
To everyone saying, 'how is dscan immunity different than covops cloak,' I will simply remind them that, if you're actively paying attention to dscan, there is always a brief period of time between losing jump cloak and activating cloak module. During this time, you are seen on dscan. With dscan immunity, you lose even this brief period of visibility. If you're in an anomaly, trying to make isk to buy PvP ships, you get zero warning before the recon ship lands on grid. Even the most rabid dscan spammer won't see this coming.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#323 - 2014-12-18 18:11:51 UTC
Lorac Gemini wrote:
Surprised there's more WH tears than FW tears here. Figured FW farmers not being able to see a recon on dscan would make them like this change less.

That's because we'll be using them more often; general equipment upgrades benefit BOTH sides of the war, so we rarely complain about power creep if the races we like get their ships upgraded. Even though the caldari recons could use a fitting buff, the cap regen bonus and the wonders that will be amarr recon will be excellent.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#324 - 2014-12-18 18:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Querns wrote:
It's actually pretty surprising to see the number of people who think that neut range is somehow worse than neut amount. Have any of you actually flown a pilgrim against, well, anything? Pilgrims needed the range very badly to avoid getting fridged by anything with even a remote ability to kite.


You are assuming that as a recon ship is has no allies in the fight... which is hilarious as Recons almost always need back up...

Who cares if it gets kited? I have friends to deal with that...

Back in the day, force recons were actually used as solo boats for their ability to dictate range. It was more about not getting caught than sheer destructive force. The pilgrim failed at this because it always had to engage in scram range in order to bring its bonuses to bear; something that its other force recon cousins didn't have to do. The pilgrim, additionally, was too slow to, practically, get into neut range in the first place, and even if it did, it was difficult to keep anyone there.

With neut range, it will be able to more effectively dictate range in an encounter, allowing it greater solo potential.

e: rewording the "cousins" bit as the way I wrote it made no damn sense

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#325 - 2014-12-18 18:13:35 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
What 'flexibility' are we gaining exactly? The ability to neut something 37km away is nice...

Make that 80km away. And it can either do that without faction mods, or with a faction mod and still have room for non-PG-related modules.

Sniper Curse just became Sniper Pilgrim.


riiiiight... with one Heavy neut... it s a novelty fit and you know it... no practical purpose
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#326 - 2014-12-18 18:14:13 UTC
No real wormhole experience here, but won't this make wormhole space even more dangerous unless you're ain a fleet?

Not that more danger is a bad thing, it just strikes me as odd that there appears to be no way to see if these things are coming before they're on grid with you.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#327 - 2014-12-18 18:15:14 UTC
The d-scan change is cute, but should have been tied to a module, just like cloaking is. We already have modules that are designed to fit specific ships, so that would not be new, and adding it would have given the pilots a choice to make. Immune to D-scan, but lose a slot, etc.

Profit favors the prepared
Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
#328 - 2014-12-18 18:15:33 UTC
biz Antollare wrote:
ihavenotoneclue wrote:
Really a fan of the D-scan changes, and the pilgrim has needed the range boost forever.

Overall I'm definitely a fan.


Appropriate character name.



A+ would read again haha

CEO

Makiriemi Industries
Elana Apgar
Allspark Industries
#329 - 2014-12-18 18:15:52 UTC
\0/

Love the changes!
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#330 - 2014-12-18 18:16:01 UTC
Querns wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Querns wrote:
It's actually pretty surprising to see the number of people who think that neut range is somehow worse than neut amount. Have any of you actually flown a pilgrim against, well, anything? Pilgrims needed the range very badly to avoid getting fridged by anything with even a remote ability to kite.


You are assuming that as a recon ship is has no allies in the fight... which is hilarious as Recons almost always need back up...

Who cares if it gets kited? I have friends to deal with that...

Back in the day...


Well we are not 'back in the day' so stop living in the past and focus on the present and the future.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#331 - 2014-12-18 18:16:40 UTC
Quote:
LACHESIS

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret Tracking (was medium hybrid turret damage)
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness

Recon Ships Bonuses:
20% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor optimal range
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range (was missile rate of fire)


I am a little surprised to see a Combat Recon with no damage bonuses. Tracking and range are nice and all but couldn't you at least split the tracking with damage so: +5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret Tracking and Damage.
Lorac Gemini
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2014-12-18 18:17:34 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:


and still the Celestis remains the best damp platform in the game.

Rise the suggestion I'd have is relook at the bonuses on the arazu and lachesis and figure what to replace with the same bonus the celestis gets for opti and fall off of sensor damps
For example:

ARAZU

Role Bonus:
80% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator liquid ozone consumption
50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration
• Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator
• Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range and falloff
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness

Recon Ships Bonuses:
20% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor optimal range
20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement

-SNIP-

LACHESIS

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
12.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness

Recon Ships Bonuses:
20% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor optimal range
10.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range and falloff (was missile rate of fire)

-SNIP-

Also with all the Covert recons possibly consider giving them a role bonus giving reduced CPU and PG needs for probe launchers.



This.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#333 - 2014-12-18 18:18:10 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Scheulagh Santorine wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners


P

Oh, yes, yes, YES,
CCP, YEEES, YEEEES, So yes, YES yes SO YEESSSS....

Aaaaahhh.

Yes. Thank you.

I have a solo rook fit I wanna show you that I'll be flying after this...
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#334 - 2014-12-18 18:20:46 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Querns wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Querns wrote:
It's actually pretty surprising to see the number of people who think that neut range is somehow worse than neut amount. Have any of you actually flown a pilgrim against, well, anything? Pilgrims needed the range very badly to avoid getting fridged by anything with even a remote ability to kite.


You are assuming that as a recon ship is has no allies in the fight... which is hilarious as Recons almost always need back up...

Who cares if it gets kited? I have friends to deal with that...

Back in the day...


Well we are not 'back in the day' so stop living in the past and focus on the present and the future.

That's the thing — nothing about my anecdote has changed. The issues with the pilgrim still exist, and are compensated nicely by swapping the neut amount for range.

I know that everyone is comparing the pilgrim's neut amount to the legion's neut amount, but given the ominous portents by Dev posts within this thread and without, I suspect that the battleship-level tank strategic cruisers are not long for this world.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#335 - 2014-12-18 18:21:51 UTC
Quote:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners


I'd like to know more about the reason you chose this, of all things. You realize this is going to make them pretty overpowered in wormholes, right? You'll literally never see Combat Recons coming until they appear on grid.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#336 - 2014-12-18 18:22:42 UTC
Psianh Auvyander wrote:
I am concerned with the Pilgrim after these changes. Its unique nature is gone now, and I'd really like to see this revisited.

Instead of essentially copying the Curse, I sincerely urge you to consider finding new, interesting ways to implement the Pilgrim. Its heavy bonus to neutralizing strength is still part of its core, I believe, and while it certainly was struggling, this doesn't provide us with a great choice. Instead, choosing between the Pilgrim and Curse is going to boil down to: do I need a cyno?

Perhaps let it focus more on the tracking disrupters, utilizing them for their survival more than they do now. Regardless, I do hope you'll revisit this hull and help it find a unique place.

Or just remove the TD bonus and swap it for a neut amount. Or keep the neut range and drop a mid for a high.
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#337 - 2014-12-18 18:25:22 UTC
lin Quay wrote:
Diivil wrote:
Combat recons should at least show up in dscan if you are on the same grid with them. Majority of Eve use dscan tools and it would be extremely frustrating to not be able to copy a certain ship type from dscan list when you can clearly see it in your own overview.

Very much this.

Very happy to see the tank increase as well, it was needed. The capacitor is also very welcome. Always sucks to leave your huginn behind on a long warp!

ECM still needs fixed.


ABSO-FREAKIN-SMURFLY

I don't always fly Recons, but when I do...

It would be nice if ECM WORKED.

TD works great, Damps work great, Cap warfare works great. ECM has illicit and unlawful relations with donkeys.


My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#338 - 2014-12-18 18:25:35 UTC
As a devout worshiper of anything Recon, let me be the first to say that:

CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners


...literally translates to ceiling cat watching you masterbate.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#339 - 2014-12-18 18:25:39 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
No real wormhole experience here, but won't this make wormhole space even more dangerous unless you're ain a fleet?

Not that more danger is a bad thing, it just strikes me as odd that there appears to be no way to see if these things are coming before they're on grid with you.



This only affects getting ganked in a wh mildly. The recon will gain 2 advantages in wh.

1. No flash on D-scan upon entering a wh (you still get the sound)
2. No uncloaking delay when they land on you (the can warped uncloaked due to d-scan immunity)
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2014-12-18 18:28:30 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
As a devout worshiper of anything Recon, let me be the first to say that:

CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners


...literally translates to ceiling cat watching you masterbate.

M-F'KIN /thread

Lol

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right