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[Rhea] Graphical Features Feedback and Discussion

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#221 - 2014-11-26 16:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
After today's 2 patches:

The Ark and Paladin still lack shine. Crusader, Retribution, Pilgrim, Guardian color scheme is still inverted. Viziam and Khanid Innovation ships still look like plastic models (don't change the colors on the Khanid ships!)

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The Eagle still has this unsatisfying model, but at least the colors are appropriate again. In general, Ishukone look better now colorwise.

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The Avatar does not share the same seychelle-white/shiny gold ornament theme of the other Amarr T1 ships.

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Chat tab blinking is still obnoxious when I use the Amarr theme and CCP still has not implemented a often suggested better notification, namely the blinking text. White chat tab text is also still hard to read on Amarr, Amarr2, Green, Minmatar2, among others when they are active, blinking and hovered over.

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The scanner icons in the Probe scanner window are very hard to discern; their icons are sort of behind the new main theme color.

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The overview tabs still are too big and should lose some height.

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Why does the Confessor use the NPC cross as ship bracket?

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What happened to the Erebus? Where's all the green gone? This ship now looks more like a Caldari-Minmatar hybrid with the grey and dirt spots all over the place.

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Windows with collapsible options, like the Notification settings window or the Fleet window (here the different squads, wings) lack a clear distinction (a line or something) between the individual sections. They are atm 1 solid surface with no indication of where what ends and starts.

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I'm sure you like to push your fancy transparency stuff on us, but we don't like that all equally. and I just noticed that, when I open a window, it is being opened transparent and then fades to the set up transparency level in the options. Do I need to further comment on that? Roll

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I also can't see anymore at a glance in which squad I am in the new UI. There is a slight green glow on the arrow of my squad when I hover over it, but that's it.

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Why are all squad members selected when I expand a squad in a fleet? What is the purpose of that?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#222 - 2014-11-26 17:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
I definitely do not like the new weapon muzzle fire effects on the Heavy Beam Lasers. If my lasers would scatter the way you implemented the weapon muzzle fire, I would be very worried about the efficiency of my weapons. This is not even a question about "Fancy looks, no need for realism." like I heard on this year's FF, it just looks ugly and like pre-2000 gfx stuff. Remove.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Inir Ishtori
Perkone
Caldari State
#223 - 2014-11-26 19:55:46 UTC
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Inir Ishtori wrote:
On the topic of space dirt: i feel that CCP went over the top with this.

http://abload.de/img/2014.11.24.15.33.45mbfe7.png
http://abload.de/img/2014.11.24.15.34.04u0jgz.png

It's almost like a third of the ship lost all detail.


We took it through the spaceshipwash, should be far cleaner now.


Thank you, it looks much better now. I'd like to compliment on the choice of the new colour scheme again, as unlike the TQ Talos the new version looks really badass now.

Maybe you could take a look at the Brutix, too. From the side it looks like there is a very severe rust issue all over the ship. And then, there is this:
http://abload.de/img/2014.11.26.19.45.0286ulz.png

The straight line on the top, splitting the ship in half. This is certainly not on TQ right now. Aside from it looking like an artifact from a shoddy texture work, it also messes up the organic feel of the ship with its many curves and round shapes. Please remove this.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#224 - 2014-11-26 20:11:09 UTC
This kind of graphics glitch is also still a problem on the Harbinger, where it has a cheiloschisis at the bottom nose tip.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
CCP BlueScreen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#225 - 2014-11-26 21:28:14 UTC
Inir Ishtori wrote:
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Inir Ishtori wrote:
On the topic of space dirt: i feel that CCP went over the top with this.

http://abload.de/img/2014.11.24.15.33.45mbfe7.png
http://abload.de/img/2014.11.24.15.34.04u0jgz.png

It's almost like a third of the ship lost all detail.


We took it through the spaceshipwash, should be far cleaner now.


Thank you, it looks much better now. I'd like to compliment on the choice of the new colour scheme again, as unlike the TQ Talos the new version looks really badass now.

Maybe you could take a look at the Brutix, too. From the side it looks like there is a very severe rust issue all over the ship. And then, there is this:
http://abload.de/img/2014.11.26.19.45.0286ulz.png

The straight line on the top, splitting the ship in half. This is certainly not on TQ right now. Aside from it looking like an artifact from a shoddy texture work, it also messes up the organic feel of the ship with its many curves and round shapes. Please remove this.


We shall contact the shipyard responsible ASAP, this is clearly a beach of contract and will not stand.
Also, we will have some engineers look into the Harbinger, and asses any similar issues there.
Inir Ishtori
Perkone
Caldari State
#226 - 2014-11-27 01:42:13 UTC
CCP BlueScreen wrote:


We shall contact the shipyard responsible ASAP, this is clearly a beach of contract and will not stand.
Also, we will have some engineers look into the Harbinger, and asses any similar issues there.


Thank you, looking forward to it.

It's kind of funny when you think about it a moment - usually the Minmatar are considered the kings of rust and duct tape, but now the Gallente seem to show some serious ambitions to steal that spot Lol On the other hand it is also intriguing where that new smooth brown layer on Minmatar ships is coming from. It looks very organic and with Minmatar known about not wasting anything... Yeah, probably chocolate.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#227 - 2014-11-27 07:01:04 UTC
So while you are adding bits to the T2 versions of the Moa, can you give the Crane it's extra thrusters back?

Also a note on the moa variants: The T2 variants lack drone bays, so the bay on the model should be closed up.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#228 - 2014-11-27 11:20:49 UTC
Has anyone had a chance to see if the blood raiders got their trademark red back, or if the Sansha ships still look like unpainted shiny plastic waiting for the art team to paint them?
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#229 - 2014-11-27 15:15:35 UTC
chaosjj wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Barghest Comparison
Here's another comparison using the (old) and (new) Barghest.

http://imgur.com/a/lE8rd

1. Aside from the colour improvement with the PBR version (more of an off-blue/black), the PBR version is entirely a step back.
2. All of the minor/subtle details such as the white lines and panelling trim have all but disappeared.
3. The weathering around a lot of the ship (launcher mount points being one example) now stands out in contrast in addition to being a different colour (brown instead of black).


does it need weathering in the first place? the barghest is a very new ship, so why is it weatherd? if its an old tech 1 ship, its understandable, but why is there so much weathering on tech 2 ships? those are supposed to be new ships. Same goes with caldari ships, according to lore, caldari ships are constantly replaced and improved, they should look like that too in my opinion.

Ships that should look weathered:
older type minmatar ships, like the scythe, burst, and wreath. (not the "modernized" ships, like the stabber or the tempest, )
Mining barges and Exhumers


every ship should look weather to an extent. Whether it is new or not.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#230 - 2014-11-27 15:22:22 UTC
The T2 Ships from Khanid Innovation look awful. The color scheme is fine, but the ships look like chrome plated die cast metal toys rather than actual ships. The shaders that they have currently are much better. Many of the ships shaders that are deploy on the test server are far too lustrous. It just looks silly, but my bias for the Khanid ships has me particularly concerned.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#231 - 2014-11-27 15:23:18 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
every ship should look weather to an extent. Whether it is new or not.

I rather don't want my ships, which are fresh from the production line, look like they are decades old. CCP should implement a NON-NES way, where ships accumulate space dust, surface ablation and colors washing out over time and I can repaint them or keep them shiny all the time. However, I DO NOT WANT TO USE NES FOR THAT!

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#232 - 2014-11-27 15:37:46 UTC
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
So I decided to do a comparison of all of the ships pre- and post-changes to see how they actually compare. So far I'm not convinced this is an upgrade, except in some cases. PBR makes the cladari ships look awesome to me, but a huge number of ships now look really really bad (e.g. every gallente ship, sansha, angel cartel, SOE) while framerate is also reduced a bit.

Seems to me that dark colors/blacks are largely gone, most of the shiny textures are too shiny (do not look realistic). However on the ships that it does improve the look of, they look substantially better (e.g. caracal, venture, orthrus - and of course the new blackbird looks amazing).

It seems to work a lot better on matte or semi-matte textures and on ships with very clean lines, but not so well on shiny surfaces. Textures and lines on ships like the vexor, ishtar, thorax, etc. (and others) look very low quality, especially w/ the shininess - they seem outdated in comparison to the caldari ships (probably b/c of the recent graphics changes on those).

Anyways - so that other people can decide for themselves....here is a comparison of a ship from every race before and after the changes. In every case below, the old (current) rendering is on TOP, and the new PBR is on the BOTTOM.

Sansha: Succubus

Sansha: Phantasm

Blood: Ashimmu

Angel: Cynabal

Serpentis: Vigilant

SOE: Stratios

Mordus Legion: Orthrus

Amarr: Coercer

Caldari: Cormorant

Gallente: Ishtar

-> Note: I know, Ishtar is t2. I forgot to get pics of the t1 gallente and didn't want to log back onto the test server just for one pic. Deal with it.

ORE: Super sexy venture, looks good no matter what you do

Guristas: Gila


what happened to all of the rust/damage on the succubus? It was very distinctive for the sansha vessels to look battered and abused the way they do currently, why change that to indistinct chrome plating, why does everything need to be soo chrome!?
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
#233 - 2014-11-27 16:33:38 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:

what happened to all of the rust/damage on the succubus? It was very distinctive for the sansha vessels to look battered and abused the way they do currently, why change that to indistinct chrome plating, why does everything need to be soo chrome!?


because
Elenna Twin
LP Store Social Club
#234 - 2014-11-27 18:18:14 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
the ships look like chrome plated die cast metal toys rather than actual ships. The shaders that they have currently are much better. Many of the ships shaders that are deploy on the test server are far too lustrous.


100% This. Especially the Gallente/Amarr Frigates. I like the gold on Amarr ships but it's too much right now. And I hate the Gallente ones now, which makes me really sad.
Leonard Nimoy II
Doomheim
#235 - 2014-11-28 02:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Leonard Nimoy II
Rena Monachica wrote:
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:

what happened to all of the rust/damage on the succubus? It was very distinctive for the sansha vessels to look battered and abused the way they do currently, why change that to indistinct chrome plating, why does everything need to be soo chrome!?


because


I lol'd Big smile Yer....I feel like the new ship redesigns are very clean and modern, but older ones are lagging behind vOv

Has creodron recently changed their manufacturing processes? Did they get a discount on chrome hardware from their component suppliers? As a client not fond of chrome - do you think can I get my Ishtars commissioned to be built 'under the table' by Lai Dai or Ishukone for a more modern look?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#236 - 2014-11-28 05:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
RIP: Vindicator.
You should really (really) reconsider putting the PBR update off for a release or two. All the ships look worse, flat and 'plastic'. Some of the colour and texture changes are also quite extreme, and do not necessarily enhance the current designs.

This update is not going to be well-received at all. If the ships don't at least look as good as the current versions (with a few exceptions, they generally don't) - you're going to lose a lot of the hard-earned goodwill you've banked over the past few releases.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2014-11-29 06:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: The Hamilton
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
RIP: Vindicator.
You should really (really) reconsider putting the PBR update off for a release or two. All the ships look worse, flat and 'plastic'. Some of the colour and texture changes are also quite extreme, and do not necessarily enhance the current designs.

This update is not going to be well-received at all. If the ships don't at least look as good as the current versions (with a few exceptions, they generally don't) - you're going to lose a lot of the hard-earned goodwill you've banked over the past few releases.


While I think there isn't a lot of concensus about which ones are an improvement and are not. I think this is right.

Just give the art team another 6 weeks to go over with some polish or dirt depending on the ship. I think with all the amazing work CCP have done in the last few patches this one can afford to wait. Especially considering how important it is to get it right.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2014-11-29 08:24:35 UTC
I don't know about the other ships but vindicator on test server looks at least3x better than live.
U could see much detail where the live one is covered by dark shadows

But the kronos looks worst than live because the color doesn't look as good too light maybe
Cajun Style
Shattered Planet
#239 - 2014-11-29 09:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cajun Style
Hello! Solid work in general, although it does need a little polishing. In concrete terms, the engravings on the front of the dragoon arestill look borked...
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#240 - 2014-11-29 09:27:50 UTC
Am I right in that none of the T1 Gallente ships have a color layer? Or is that just me?