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[Rhea] Graphical Features Feedback and Discussion

First post
Author
Kaylin Drake
Profound Destiny
#61 - 2014-11-17 19:34:27 UTC
My opinion remains unchanged since the previous thread. There's a lot of loss in detail on several ships making them look like they are low res graphics, making this look like a step back instead of forward.

I like how detailed ships are on TQ right now, this update washes out details on Caldari ships giving them an really old graphics look to them. Some Amarr ships look very tinfoily. Please give each ship individual attention in bringing the details from current TQ into this update so they don't look so washed out and low res..

Also.. what's with the weird color thing happening on the front of my drake below the cockpit.. http://i.imgur.com/aUc5A8T.jpg
I love the Drake, it's my favorite ship visually, I'm unhappy with the washed out details on it specifically.

I agree with Arthur Aihaken's examples.

Dusty ships look way too dusty, just ugly dusty. Please tone it down.

People get attached to their characters in games, well in this one I only really see my ships so in a way they are my 'character'.. I don't visit CQ. Big changes like this really put me off, especially when it looks like such a big downgrade on so many ships.

I prefer what's on TQ now.. Please make a way to turn this off for those of us that don't like this update..
Oscae
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-11-17 19:46:39 UTC
Overall I'm loving the new lighting and shaders, but there are a few problems that I have noticed.

First of all, the Duvolle ships are way too bright and golden. The Astarte looks like it's been dipped in liquid gold and the Kronos has lost it's dark, menacing look to it and now looks really out of place with the other marauders.

On a semi-related note, the Roden ships are red. I mean really red, it's almost ridiculous just how red they are.

Now whilst generaly speaking the Ishukone ships look great as always, some look too shiny and reflective, the new falcon I think models it perfectly, whereas the Eagle just looks off, especially around the 'neck'. the current TQ Eagle looks great however so if the final Eagle could look more matte around the black parts that would be great :)

Finaly I would like to echo the lighting consistency issue; the lights across races and individual models are off, standard lighting on each model would also be much appreciated.

Hope this helps
Owen E Vader
TheMurk
#63 - 2014-11-17 20:06:11 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Owen E Vader wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Owen E Vader wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
that the new blackbird looks perfect.

WTF Shocked

What, it's glorious.

Joking?
It has too many surfaces. Like pile of textures. High-tech-ish but ugly.

It looks like an agitated poisonous insect, just like an ecm boat should.

No. It looks like a disorganized pile of - too many - metal sheets. Seems you've never seen real insects.
Rosita Renegade
Doomheim
#64 - 2014-11-17 20:22:26 UTC
Any pics of gallente ships?
Valterra Craven
#65 - 2014-11-17 21:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Here's an idea, any chance you guys could release a couple models of ships that you are redoing early in the design phase and have an informal poll on which players like more?

Edit: Does this new PBR rendering help with how awful ships looked after the last lighting change? (I'm specifically talking about how edges were looking especially jagged like AA could do no right on anything)
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#66 - 2014-11-17 21:51:26 UTC
Just chiming in to say that I love everything I've seen so far. I'm looking forward to being able to see ships that are supposed to look impressive and grand. I'm tired of piloting indistinct brownish blobs around, no being able to appreciate them unless I dock in an Amarr station, and having to enhance every screenshot I take so that people can actually make out the ships in the picture.

The Absolution! Mind. Blown.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Chaotic Past
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#67 - 2014-11-17 22:06:22 UTC
Caldari T1 - The models are ok but definitely need a more of a matte finish, way to reflective right now.

Caldari Lai Dai- They actually look pretty good but something needs to change, they currently look a bit doughy and details arnt prominent enough. Bring one of those 2 out and im sure there will be a massive improvement.

Caldari Ishokone- I dont think they were made of gold so lets please try and change it to a more subtle texture thats at least less shiny.

Caldari Kaalak- I kinda like the dirty feel although these are top of the line tech ships and i just dont feel like im in one with this gritty look. I would also recommend making the colors standout a little more. These need the most work of the Caldari T2 ship lines.



Gallente T1- I would say bring out the details a little more as most the models seem to be untextured models right now or way over done like the celestis

Gallente Duvolle- Way to Shiny

Gallente Creo- Way to Shiny aswell

Gallente Roden- I actually like the crimson red and these set of ships actually dont shine as much but they should be toned down just a tad.



Amarr T1- No complaints at all, i honestly get goosebumps of excitement from just looking at them.

Amarr Khanid- This is how these ships supposed to be designed and im glad to see them get this nice update. The people who worked on these i feel should transfer some of that work to the caldari ships.

Amarr Viziam- No complaints, these ships definitely have a bolder presence and i like it.

Amarr Carthum- These all look good but i would maybe pull back on some of the dusty feel from the paladin.



Minmatar- Not implemented at this time.



Pirate Ships!

Mordus- They have to much of a glaze look and the Barghest shouldn't look like my dinner plate. Definitely need some more out going detail like the original model.

Angel- They look a bit light but it really brings out some of the good details. I would say stick with it but theres some room for improvement.

Sansha- I expected this and im not sure how i feel about it, i feel like they should still have that really nice green glaze look they have now.

SoE- Seem fine, can't really tell the difference.

Blood- Bring out the blood

Guristas- From what i can tell i actually like the new design, it looks alot better on sisi then some of these photos justify, if you havnt looked then please log on and give it your own opinion. I would just say try and remove the slightly doughy apperance.

Serpentis- No complaints here
Lugh Crow-Slave
#68 - 2014-11-17 22:23:59 UTC
T1 Caldari look way to flat but i'm loving the amarr ships and the worn gritty look on the widow i find fits its role well
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#69 - 2014-11-18 02:54:11 UTC
Scary thought: With the level of rust/weathering on the Caldari ships, what will the Minmatar look like? Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#70 - 2014-11-18 03:36:51 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Scary thought: With the level of rust/weathering on the Caldari ships, what will the Minmatar look like? Twisted


Finally detailed enough to see the duct tape
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-11-18 05:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
I spent a long time on SiSi today reviewing almost all the ships in the game, and while I know this probably isn't super helpful feedback, I was struck by the lack of uniformity: some ships look really detailed and beautifully "weathered"-- amazing. Others just look dull and plastic-y. Other stuff looks "realistic," but way too "clean" (like all the polished, Christmas-ornament-y bits of the Gallente T2 ships).

Some ships that stood out in a positive way:

- The Nighthawk and Widow. Wow. Just look like real, beaten old warships. Beautiful work.

- A lot of the Lai Dai ships (nice weathering, manage to look dull, but in a detailed and realistic way)

- The new Blackbird and variants (great model, although the textures look a little low-res: WIP?)

- The Osprey: has the same overall color scheme as the other T1 Caldari ships, but wears it convincingly with nice weathering details.


Some ships that stood out for all the wrong reasons:

- A ton of Caldari T1 stuff. Look at the Caracal: it just looks like a really generic looking plastic model of a ship. Large swathes of bump-mapped areas that are assigned a generic rubbery charcoal-colored material. Has some mis-placed lights on it (look on the outsides of the vertical tail-end bits and on the center main engine outlet).

- Gallente T2 stuff: too clean, shiny, and polished looking. They look like glass instead of metal.

- The new Onyx: the red parts look old and weathered, but the black parts look brand new and featurelessly spotless. The whole ship looks too shiny.

Also, ships don't seem to pop out of stations aligned with the undock (they start pointing sideways or whatever and rapidly re-align with their vector of travel).

There also seemed to be a bug with the "flood lights" on the undock of the station I was testing at (Teshkat VI - Chemal Tech Factory), where the lighting from the floods would only illuminate an undocking ship when the camera was at certain angles (making it look like the light flickered on and off as you dragged the camera around).

Would it be possible to enable self-illumination from strobe / position lights on the ships? I noticed a few instances where "lights" that were part of the hull textures cast soft illumination onto nearby hull surfaces (it looked a little too good to be procedural-- probably part of the static textures?), but the blinking navigational lights (or whatever they are) don't seem to have any effect on the the illumination of the hulls. It would be awesome if blinking lights briefly lit up the surfaces of the ships.

Also, the self-shadowing doesn't seem to work quite right: there are some instances where shiny bits of ships reflect light that they shouldn't be able to reflect (take the shiny bits on the insides of the "intake" openings on the top of the Orthrus, for example-- they have big intake scoops covering them up, but still manage to reflect colored environment lighting that should be blocked out by the scoops). Minor nitpick, I know, and probably something intentionally overlooked in the interests of performance.

In general, I think your more weathered-looking ships look better. Quite a few ships seem unrealistically sterile-looking, and the exceptionally realistic appearance of some of the better-textured ships makes the sterile-looking ones look really fake in comparison. I'm also a little puzzled as to why I have an overall impression of the specularity of some ship surfaces being higher than others, despite them being from the same line of ships. You said you made the "materials" / colors of ships in the same line identical, which makes me wonder why the Onyx looks a little too bright and reflective, while the black parts of the Nighthawk look quite matte and fantastic.

Overall, though, you guys have done amazing work (again). The difference in visual quality when you actually undock the things and get them out into interesting lighting environments is really noticeable. The ships really look like they belong in the scenes much more than they used to. This game is seriously pretty to look at.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#72 - 2014-11-18 07:51:50 UTC
Any ETA for when we can expect to see the Minmatar ships? I'd like to actually see what I'm flying rather than just a few blinking lights. Thanks!

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#73 - 2014-11-18 10:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
CCP - the color change to the Barghest and Mordus Legion ships is fine, including the matte finish. Are you able to at least make any changes to bring out the level of detail in the paneling (etc.) that's currently present in Phoebe? It's such a gorgeous ship and would be a shame to diminish all the hard work that's gone into the various textures and accents. Thanks.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Tarpedo
Incursionista
#74 - 2014-11-18 10:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
Ships don't look like dark spots on black background anymore - in fact they are really interesting now. New rendering is extremely nice, after logging out from Sisi I've purchased Nightmare on Tranquility purely for its new golden hull - just to look at it sometimes.

Could be nice to see "promised" shield effects and structure damage. Please :-)

p.s. T2 Gallente, Amarr ships are beautiful.
CCP Antiquarian
C C P
C C P Alliance
#75 - 2014-11-18 10:53:30 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Any ETA for when we can expect to see the Minmatar ships? I'd like to actually see what I'm flying rather than just a few blinking lights. Thanks!



It's underway!

In fact, you should have visible Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships as of today/tomorrow.

If not, noise me up.

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#76 - 2014-11-18 10:58:00 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
Could be nice to see "promised" shield effects and structure damage. Please :-)

Add hi-res textures to the list...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-11-18 11:05:52 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Any ETA for when we can expect to see the Minmatar ships? I'd like to actually see what I'm flying rather than just a few blinking lights. Thanks!



It's underway!

In fact, you should have visible Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships as of today/tomorrow.

If not, noise me up.


Reporting a bug regarding the graphics of minmatar ships.

Duct tape isn't visible.

Yaay!!!!

CCP Antiquarian
C C P
C C P Alliance
#78 - 2014-11-18 11:12:34 UTC
http://www.3m.com/brands/scotch/toughtape/images/tough-transparent.jpg

?

That's all I got right now.

Additional Minmatar hulls are underway. Bear with us.

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#79 - 2014-11-18 11:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Gotta say I'm very hyped for those minmatar ships based on what the Widow has to offer in the rust department.


The reflexions overall seem yet very... inconsistent. All of the flat surfaces look very great, but as far as round shapes are concerned, there are the glorious amarrian textures and then there is gallente :(

Just assuming Gallente was a dev saying *But I didn't get to the matte part yet* and the one responsible for minmatar saying *nope, not gonna release this alpha version*.

Amarr looks gorgeous, caldari looks overall very boring yet with the exception of the kalaikotatattaataata ships. The amount of Brass/Gold on the eagle though is to damn high. Kudos to the caldari engines on any ship I saw till now, from a chasing perspective, PBR is a win.

The Astarte and Kronos show best what's currently wrong with Gallente in general and the Duvolle Lbas. in particular. Eagerly awaiting the next iteration!
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#80 - 2014-11-18 12:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
Just had a look at those graphical improvements.

My reaction.



OMG I love them! Big smile Let me be more precise, but it will be difficult to not go nuts while writing due to awesomeness.

- Blackbird & Co: I really feared it would lose its assymetry and its distintive "EWAR nest" look. Glad to see it's not the case! It's keeping its mythical thruster distribution, its assymetry, and even grew more EWAR stuff and asymmetry! And those animations... Can't wait until it's finished! I understand some people could say it's pretty close to Mordu's Legion ships, but I think it's fitting for Caldari (see below).

- Eagle: strange additions, but cool and fitting! (see below)

- Caldari in general: I love how the devs are maintaining the Caldari theme of "not pretty or symmetrical; only functional and highly advanced" while giving them new looks. I'm loving those armor plates based on real life's anti-radar geometries (I'm looking at the Blackbird's hull and the new aditions for the Eagle). +1

- New "textures": WOW. Now Amarr can truly shine! (shameless pun) Those Gallente hulls look nice too, although I would reduce that metallic shining just a little bit. Minmatar ones look awesome too: ships like the Rupture went from ugly, semi-finished textures to something much more defined. Cool!

I'll add more feedback on future looks at SiSi. For now, you have my congrats, Teams Trilambda and Muppet Shop! Big smile