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[Rhea] Graphical Features Feedback and Discussion

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Author
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#41 - 2014-11-17 17:10:11 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Hi all!

Us folks over at Teams Trilambda and Muppet Shop have been slaving (Minmatar-ing) long and hard to bring you the latest batch of graphical goodies due to ship with Rhea. Please bear in mind that these features are Works-In-Progress, and are likely to change during the course of the next few weeks. As always. all constructive criticisms are welcome:

Ship Redesigns - Onyx, Eagle, Incursus, Enyo, Ishkur, Blackbird, Rook, Falcon
STATUS: DEPLOYED, UPDATES MADE BASED ON ISSUES FOUND

The aforementioned Hulls have been updated with new geometry and textures.


Can't wait to hear what you think of all this!

- Sledgehammer.


I really wish you guys would allow player feed much sooner in the modeling process than you do. I'm not aware of a single case where you've shown players a new ship model and because of the feedback scraped it or significantly changed it. (Admittedly I've a had few multi-year breaks from eve over the past decade or so.)

I know I'm in the minority here, but I think you guys have basically released a poorer/worse model for the blackbird than what we had previously. The onyz though :X that ship under the new system with the previous model revision is GORGEOUS. But looking at the two ships it feels like a completely different team worked on it compared to the moa redesign.

And people have said the Moa currently looks like garbage (looks like a amaar ship and not a caldari one), and that the new blackbird looks perfect.

Can't please everybody.

Yaay!!!!

Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-11-17 17:12:08 UTC
CCP Salvo wrote:
chaosjj wrote:
Will the incursus-variants recieve their own hull variants like the moa hulls have?


Yes, the hull variations for the Ishkur and the Enyo will make a reappearance in a later release, as they are not complete yet. As with the initial Moa redesign, we've updated the T2 variants with the new redesigned T1 hull until the T2 geometry is ready.


#savethelance on the forums....

#savethelance on Twitter

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Naava Edios
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#43 - 2014-11-17 17:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Naava Edios
Hey Sledge thanks for the great work you guys are doing and here are some thoughts.

I am mainly covering My thoughts on Caldari ships.

Over all the more flat colors and less glossy look and work well for the Caldari ships, Adds a more militaristic feel to them.

And for the Skins like the Nugoeihuvi or the Wiyrkomi Ships they actually stand out now unlike the current Wiyrkomi ships where currently the difference is meh..

Dirt/Paint chips/Rust/Worn down On the Caldari ships (Mostly on the Kaalakiota Ships, Widow, Nighthawk Ect.) It Looks nice but I feel it may be a bit much... Ok Its really too much for the Nighthawk and the Widow is REALLY close behind in that aspect.

I say this under the ideas of Caldari ships "the average age of the Caldari ships is considerably less. This is because the Caldari are constantly replacing their oldest ships with newer ones, with better hi-tech equipment."

On that. The Caldari navy ships new Digital skin looks much better, the current one is too Digital if that makes any sense,
But... They look too worn...(Also feel the navy Osprey looks really bad, Sorry)

If you are going to make Caldari ships look worn and run down thats ok, just Don't over kill it and... The Dominix... I hope you would make this Really worn down... like it should be OR... Make it Brown again like it used to be... http://izlin.free.fr/eve/ships/dominix.jpg


Amarr ships.

Most look great, Didn't get a lot of time to get into them all, Redeemer skin does look really low.

Gallente ships.

Lots are too glossy to the point that I feel it sorta ruins the actual texture, Like both the Recons, Only bug on gallente ships I found was the Dominix being clean.


Onyx and Brobird + Varients.

So both Falcon and Rook I think the skins are not finished? I could be wrong but I see some weird spots on them like the Falcons sensor array.

Either way the new skins on them are looking good and the Models, I think it's amazing the new Models look different in some small way, It was kinda boring the only visual difference of getting into a T2 ship from the T1 was the Color so this looks great.

And the Onyx looks Amazing, Both Skin and model +! it has a moving bit! and everyone loves it when something on their ship moves or spins! and It's warp effect is neat how the I guess power cells that are exposed come inside the hull and the warp vents Open/Close on the wings. I hope you guys keep this up with any new ships to do that have T2 variants.

Anyway rambled my thoughts long enough and thank you for this hard work!

PS : Wyvern looks ABSOLUTELY Amazing

EDIT

PS:PS, Nighthawk still looks like crap cause its a Drake >,>
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#44 - 2014-11-17 17:18:32 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
CCP Salvo wrote:
chaosjj wrote:
Will the incursus-variants recieve their own hull variants like the moa hulls have?


Yes, the hull variations for the Ishkur and the Enyo will make a reappearance in a later release, as they are not complete yet. As with the initial Moa redesign, we've updated the T2 variants with the new redesigned T1 hull until the T2 geometry is ready.


The Eagle update is not satisfying. And it keeps the dronebay for no reason. There's nothing ready with that update, unless you call "randomly added bits and pieces without any apparent functionality" ready. Instead of these random bits, you could add a smaller module similar in shape and form to the Ewar modules on the Rook/Falcon to the area where the drone bay was. This would give the Eagle a bit of the much loved asymmetry as well as look a lot better than the current things you added.


My understanding is that they are adding drone bays to all the ship models, the same way they were adding hardpoints (not just turret/launcher points) in order to make it so that they can show drones launching from drone bays.

Should this ship eventually get a drone bay, they will already have the artwork done. It's also possible for the new system to work every ship needs a drone bay.


Even if they do that, the Eagle has the other side of the belly which also has an area where long range targeting support modules can be attached. Basically everything is better than what he did to the Eagle now.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#45 - 2014-11-17 17:23:50 UTC
CCP Salvo wrote:
chaosjj wrote:
Will the incursus-variants recieve their own hull variants like the moa hulls have?


Yes, the hull variations for the Ishkur and the Enyo will make a reappearance in a later release, as they are not complete yet. As with the initial Moa redesign, we've updated the T2 variants with the new redesigned T1 hull until the T2 geometry is ready.


so no tristan hull for the ishkur? .. if not why not?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Owen E Vader
TheMurk
#46 - 2014-11-17 17:24:28 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
that the new blackbird looks perfect.

WTF Shocked
Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-11-17 17:28:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Salvo wrote:
chaosjj wrote:
Will the incursus-variants recieve their own hull variants like the moa hulls have?


Yes, the hull variations for the Ishkur and the Enyo will make a reappearance in a later release, as they are not complete yet. As with the initial Moa redesign, we've updated the T2 variants with the new redesigned T1 hull until the T2 geometry is ready.


so no tristan hull for the ishkur? .. if not why not?



Don't you put that evil on me.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Qual
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-11-17 17:46:16 UTC
Amarr: Looks really nice.

Galente: WAY to shiny for my tastes. Tone down the shiny please...

Caldari: Ok'ish. Some seem to be to light in colors. I miss my old, old black Widow.

It seems to me you are making many models to bright/shiny to bring out details. I understand you want people to see the nice details of teh work you have done, but it comes at the price of mood.
Chillshock
Heavy Industries Inc.
#49 - 2014-11-17 17:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Chillshock
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rattlesnake Comparison
Here's a comparison between the (old) and (new) Rattlesnake to illustrate a few points.
Verdict: Old Rattlesnake. No question.

http://imgur.com/a/DEiMh

1. The hull has lost it's "sheen". A straight matte finish does not lend itself well towards camouflage patterns.
2. The lights have changed from orange to light blue, losing some of the 'ominous' appeal. And there's actually two different sets of lights: light/pale orange on the bridge and spotlights and light blue for everything else.
3. The colours of the camouflage are now completely off. There was less of a difference between the shades of brown on the old version - the new one has too much contrast (it's gone from light/medium brown to beige/dark brown).
4. Parts that were previously black (fins, grates, slats, engines) are now washed out and a greyish/light brown. In the process, the subtle aspects which used to distinguish the Rattlesnake and offer some contrast with the camouflage scheme now doesn't stand out at all and in fact look a little cartoonish.


Really? Well here I am thinking how much better and more high-tech it looks. I guess it's a matter of taste.
Except for your 1 - that didn't even make sense at all - or all the armies in the world are doing it wrong. :D scnr. (we had that already)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#50 - 2014-11-17 17:55:32 UTC
Chillshock wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rattlesnake Comparison
Here's a comparison between the (old) and (new) Rattlesnake to illustrate a few points.
Verdict: Old Rattlesnake. No question.

http://imgur.com/a/DEiMh

1. The hull has lost it's "sheen". A straight matte finish does not lend itself well towards camouflage patterns.
2. The lights have changed from orange to light blue, losing some of the 'ominous' appeal. And there's actually two different sets of lights: light/pale orange on the bridge and spotlights and light blue for everything else.
3. The colours of the camouflage are now completely off. There was less of a difference between the shades of brown on the old version - the new one has too much contrast (it's gone from light/medium brown to beige/dark brown).
4. Parts that were previously black (fins, grates, slats, engines) are now washed out and a greyish/light brown. In the process, the subtle aspects which used to distinguish the Rattlesnake and offer some contrast with the camouflage scheme now doesn't stand out at all and in fact look a little cartoonish.


Really? Well here I am thinking how much better and more high-tech it looks. I guess it's a matter of taste.
Except for your 1 - that didn't even make sense at all - or all the armies in the world are doing it wrong. :D scnr.



kind of like a new kit of desert camo .. and then its faded .. Shocked

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#51 - 2014-11-17 18:05:38 UTC
Owen E Vader wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
that the new blackbird looks perfect.

WTF Shocked

What, it's glorious.
Qjuu
Exires
#52 - 2014-11-17 18:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Qjuu
- Reflections: many ships are very glossy now. Almost like polished chrome. Examples are the Iteron, Phantasm, the new Incursus and especially many t2 hulls (Duvolle, Ishukone). Such highly reflective hulls make ships look like passive models or toys imho. The hull itself becomes to bright and vivid ship lights like windows and other blinking gismos (which create a sense of scale and liveliness) are fading away. I won't say reflective surfaces are bad, but it's a bit too much on some ships for my taste. That said: the appearance of the t1 Megathron is perfect! Fewer reflections on the hull, yet enough so it doesn't look dull.

- Gallente green: looks very nice now. A bit like brushed metal, very cool. T1 or even cooler the Ishtar.

- Brightness: I for one still think all ships are too bright (also the ship hangar when docked btw). EVE is a space game - space is dark(ish). But I know this is really a matter of taste - so any news about the gamma slider announced last fanfest?

- New Blackbird hull: Very sharp edges - especially the Falcon. Makes the ship, again, look small and toylike because (at least in my imagination) really large objects don't have that exact and sharp edges.

- New Incusus: I really like the new hull (apart from the the glossiness part mentioned above). It maintains the Gallente organic/high tech-style very nice.

- Amarr: AMAZING! Really cool to see the engine parts black again. But they are a bit too glossy and would look much better when completely matte. The appearance and texture of the non armored hull (bright, matte and papyrus-like) is amazing. A very cool contrast to the glossy armor parts.

- Kaalakiota: too much dirt for my taste, esp. Nighthawk. I like to see Caldari ships as high-tech vessels. Dust and dirt is more the Minmatar way imo.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#53 - 2014-11-17 18:31:25 UTC
Here's my post from the other thread, updated with some further impressions after spending a bit longer and seeing how the visuals looked like in space:

Quote:
Gallente T2 in general looks odd now, way too shiny especially when the other races are now more matte than ever. Makes the ships look less realistic and more like toys. Duvolle colors in general just seem weird. They were some of my favorite looking ships before the patch (especially Astarte) but now they look like a shiny mess. Roden is similarly too shiny (just look at oneiros or lachesis). CreoDron is better; perhaps still a bit too shiny for my tastes but I still like the look of ships like the Sin. The Amastratis and Ultramarine miasmos look kind of weird, but they're not seen often so it doesn't bother me nearly as much.

T1 is better, still some overly shiny bits (Moros) but overall an improvement. Very happy with Navy, Serpentis, as well as the various corp skins. Love the deeper yellow on the Inner Zone ships and the blue on standard Quafe. One oddity I noticed is that the Erebus is nearly completely silver now which doesnt fit with the rest of Gallente T1 as much as it used to.

Other than that though the new shaders look really good. Particular favorites of mine are T1 Amarr, Amarr Navy, Nugueohevi, Caldari Navy, and Kador.


I still think the Gallente shiny plastic look is overdone, especially on Roden, but I will admit that Duvolle is growing on me especially after actually using the ships in space and not just spinning in dock.

Regarding Sansha, I don't mind the new shiny look but I do miss some of the old green undertones that emphasized the ships odd/hostile characteristics.

For Caldari, I think the weathering effect on Kakkliota ships is too much or that at least the brown weathered effect should be changed to a more neutral color. It makes ships like the Nighthawk look abnormally dirty especially against the black background. I do really like the new Caldari Navy digital camo. Always thought the old one looked a little goofy and this one is improved and looks more focused and serious. Ishukone is hit or miss as always. The new Falcon is probably the best executed version of the skin yet, but ships like the eagle are just a mess. Could really use playing with the gradient or something to avoid the solid gold look. Falcon looks nice since it uses the color just as an accent on the tips of its wings which creates a very nice looking effect.

Pretty much everything in Amarr looks beautiful, no complaints there (except the ark color swap)


I don't like the incursus model update much. As other posters have mentioned, there's just something wrong about the proportions and angles that make it uninspiring. Blackbird model is nice, it's very detailed and busy but that's acceptable for an EW cruiser. Only thing I dont like about it is the warp animation,which seems fairly unnecessary; it feels like you guys added it just to have some part of the ship move while in warp. Onyx rendition of the red/black skin is excellent in my opinion, really like how that turned out.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#54 - 2014-11-17 18:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
I am sorry, but the white and gold are too much for the amarr ships - the current gold on the imperial issue looks great for gold, the new gold is way to bright, and it doesn't look like a ship but a toy... the white is too close to the color wheel and just makes the gold look that much worse... tone down the gold, and abandon the white for the old sandy/beige that is the color now, or better just make them all golden like the imperial issues on TQ with matte black/very verydark gray contrasting parts, and you should be there... but the current is gaudy.

Don't make EVE: Gaudy Edition... which seem to be where the colors are going, subtle is good and vibrant is good for icons... hint hint... I don't want to look at a bland UI and gaudy ships... I look at both TQ and SISI daily for hours and each time I miss the current UI and ships more and more... it's as fit all the life is being drained from what is most visually pleasant about EVE.

I would have much preferred say station hangars with corporate colors, and better lighting, say a central light about the ship and a darker interior, particularly the amarr ones which are just too flat looking because they have no lighting contrast in them...

I would have liked some of the crappy looking models to get a revisit... the poor helios for instance.

and I would have liked to see the UI for industry get trans and pinning, and also same for the ship fittings window...

and I would have liked to see a whole new set of modular post art that hooked together, just using the same units, but remake them so that they now have a real tower and when you put the "Green Cubes stacked together" they join up or something... that would have been cool.

The ships for the most part where fine... but will see, I think that this is going to be a lot of work to get it all right with a major thing such as lighting being changed... that is a very tall order for a patch in dec.
Owen E Vader
TheMurk
#55 - 2014-11-17 18:40:15 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Owen E Vader wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
that the new blackbird looks perfect.

WTF Shocked

What, it's glorious.

Joking?
It has too many surfaces. Like pile of textures. High-tech-ish but ugly.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#56 - 2014-11-17 18:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Owen E Vader wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Owen E Vader wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
that the new blackbird looks perfect.

WTF Shocked

What, it's glorious.

Joking?
It has too many surfaces. Like pile of textures. High-tech-ish but ugly.


The Caldari have captured Mordu and are forcing him to redesign there entire fleet in the way of ancient Lockheed-Martin manufacturing rituals under a secret project known as the joint-strike-stealth-ceremony in which all the major ship manufacturers have converted to a single means of making ships with strange angles, impossibly flat sections and vectored thrust engines.
Valterra Craven
#57 - 2014-11-17 18:53:07 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:


Can't please everybody.


And?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#58 - 2014-11-17 19:07:50 UTC
Owen E Vader wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Owen E Vader wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
that the new blackbird looks perfect.

WTF Shocked

What, it's glorious.

Joking?
It has too many surfaces. Like pile of textures. High-tech-ish but ugly.

It looks like an agitated poisonous insect, just like an ecm boat should.

I'm genuinely impressed with it.
Kallen Kozukie
Channel Six News
#59 - 2014-11-17 19:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kallen Kozukie
Amarr ships look great as a whole,

YOU FINALLY FIXED THE KHANID SHIPS !!!!! =D

all nice and black and silvery sheen to them again i love it.

Gallente looks good too

Caldari ships however are in need of some love, the matte finish defeats the whole purpose of the new reflecting light does it not? especially the Widow and other Kakk ships.

EDIT: forgot to mention some of the pirate ships are a bit meh, especially the gurista's ships, in fact even the navy cald ships seem to have lost thier luster from the new lighting, the camos look washed out and flat, similar to the other cald ships.

I still feel a chameleon style paint would suit sansha ships better than the flat chrome it has now.

Just my 2 isk
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#60 - 2014-11-17 19:15:18 UTC
a icon for fitting manager would be nice .. seperated from the ship fittings icon

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using